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Getting a VISA to USA by a Polish person nowadays


Ironside 48 | 9,705
29 Dec 2010  #181
Blame your own dishonest countrymen like Tygrys stated:)

Is that your inner discourse sledz-Tygrys ?
ShawnH 8 | 1,498
29 Dec 2010  #182
I think they are sweet on each other....
Babinich 1 | 455
29 Dec 2010  #183
Exactly, Poles come to America and install their own rules instead of following the rules of this country, then they wonder why Americans don't like them.

Oh yeah? I've had Polish tuck pointers and roofers do outstanding work for me.

Please don't paint with such a broad brush; there are good and bad mixed in us all.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
29 Dec 2010  #184
Babinich wrote:

Please don't paint with such a broad brush; there are good and bad mixed in us all.

you're absolutely right. i'd say about........10% are "bad".

;)
Ironside 48 | 9,705
29 Dec 2010  #185
it simply pisses you off that Poland is not in the VWP

Yeah ! and nobody is hiding it really, young genius !

Cut the crap

Cut the crap yourself, surly the US policy towards Poland cannot be that stupid as to antagonize Poles for a reason of 12000potential Poles per year overstaying their visa!

**** !there more Mexican crossing border in one hour than Poles staying per year - potentially staying at that !
You 10 million Poles in USA is hardly number of illegal immigrants, so I do not really understand the reason to bring that number up other than clouding the issue!Why would you like to cloud the issue?eh?

Admitting in the VWP others country's of the region and excluding Poland is insulting as hell!

Exactly, Poles come to America and install their own rules instead of following the rules of this country, then they wonder why Americans don't like them.

Get real eh? Was your parents or grandparents all that legal, count yourself lucky then, as for others preachers if your ancestors emigrated after 1921 you better shut up !

Maybe someday Poles will learn how to obey rules and laws

Yeah? And who are you to tell the other to not better themselves - I'm sure their children will be preaching on the very forum the same ! buzz off sledz!
tygrys 2 | 294
30 Dec 2010  #186
as for others preachers if your ancestors emigrated after 1921 you better shut up !

No, you better shut up coz my ancestors came in 1800's from Europe and yes they were legal.

Admitting in the VWP others country's of the region and excluding Poland is insulting as hell!

Lol, Poles always feel left out and insulted no matter what. You give them an inch, they take a mile and unfortunately, many are not honest.

you're absolutely right. i'd say about........10% are "bad".

Haven't found a good Polish worker yet.
sledz 23 | 2,250
30 Dec 2010  #187
Is that your inner discourse sledz-Tygrys ?

Yes, I mastered the Polish language in worlds record time, which would make me a genius! (thanks) and now I do accurate translations here on PF, That Rosetta Stone CD works wonders,,lol But I can tell you this,,,Trzymaj się swojego fiuta Ptasimóżdżek!

Poles come to America and install their own rules instead of following the rules of this country, then they wonder why Americans don't like them.

Just like the Poles that keep parking on my property and after nicely asking them not to park there over 10x and they keep pretending not to understand English. I called the Police, guess what? They were ticketed and towed,,I gave them fair warning,all they do is lie and smile to your face!

Women work as nanny's, clean "domki"

80% of Polish women do this in Chicago and the rest are bartenders/kurva

but they are so bad at it that everything has to be redone over.

Another example of why American companies wont hire them.
We have a phrase here called (De-Polocking a house) they do everything backwards, bunch of Hacks! How come German construction is so superior to Poles?

I think they are sweet on each other....

IF the truth hurts,thats just too bad, come see for yourself:)

Yeah? And who are you to tell the other to not better themselves -

I dont encourage people to break laws or rules to get what they want, yet it seems to be part of the Polish daily ritual, to lie, cheat and get over on people.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
30 Dec 2010  #188
ironside wrote:

Cut the crap yourself, surly the US policy towards Poland cannot be that stupid as to antagonize Poles for a reason of 12000potential Poles per year overstaying their visa!

ding ding ding! well there you have it, folks. ironside is the first one to finally answer my question....unintentionally be it may, but he answered it.

you have just told us that 12,000 is neglibible and not worth antagonizing Poland over. it may be 50% of that 12,000, 75%, 90%, but either way, 12,000......to piiiikus.

so here's my next question: what IS too many? where ironside.....where oh where.....do you finally say, "yeah, yeah i guess that's too many illegals every year".......???????

what I have been saying all along is that you CANNOT complain about this whatsoever if you don't have a number in mind because otherwise, regardless of how many overstay their visas, regardless of how many get denied a visa, people like you ironside could STILL complain. 20,000? bzdura! 40,000? arrogant, prejudiced americans! 75,000? WTF? It's just not fair! On and on and on and on....

ironside wrote:

And who are you to tell the other to not better themselves

and now we can all see the mentality we're dealing with here. no number exists for people like you ironside because regardless of how big the number grows, you come back with "they're just trying to better themselves! the USA is a free country, no? isn't that what you guys pretend to be?! that country was built on immigrants, how could you say no to those people!"......ad nauseam. you cannot have your cake and eat it too ironside but that's exactly what you want.

ironside wrote:

You 10 million Poles in USA is hardly number of illegal immigrants, so I do not really understand the reason to bring that number up

i've made that blatantly clear. it's simple, ironside. if you're Lithuanian, where will you go in America once you cross the border? where is a huge Lithuanian town in America? Where can you walk into a bank in the USA and speak Lithuanian? As for Poles, they have several large cities to choose from with entire Polish communities to get lost in, find work for them, all without even speaking english. Think about it...10,000,000 Poles in the USA....that's 1 out of every 5 if you combine Poland's population with America's.....basically everyone here knows somebody there, often times a blood relative. Even an idiot could manage if they decided to overstay their visa.

ironside wrote:

Admitting in the VWP others country's of the region and excluding Poland is insulting as hell!

this takes me back to the Canada/Czech Republic example. Canada gave visa free travel to the Czech Republic for some time and then ooops!, Canada removed them from their VWP. The main reason for this is because "asylum seekers" from the CR were "visiting" and not coming back and as time passed, the problem started growing exponentially because communities started to grow there, making it even easier for Czechs to come there and live comfortably, get lost in a community, find work, translators, on and on. It's a tough decision to get up and leave your country, especially in one where you have nobody....but if your cousin Pawel, Aunt Edyta and Wujek Leszek live there, piece of cake.

now maybe take your head out of your a$$ and start asking real questions.
Ironside 48 | 9,705
30 Dec 2010  #189
No, you better shut up coz my ancestors came in 1800's from Europe and yes they were legal.

My little trap worked :D Sure they were legal as all immigrants at the time were legal ! USA had first regulated immigration in the XX century, Lupus ! Anyway I don't believe you !

Lol, Poles always feel left out and insulted no matter what.

Thats BS ! you silly diaper !

You give them an inch, they take a mile and unfortunately, many are not honest.

Yeah? That is exclusively trait of Poles ?! See, I knew somehow that you are **** for brains but now you have handed me prove on the silver plater, thanks !

Just like the Poles that keep parking on my property

Gee, you live in slums and keep complaining about neighborhood, genius !

They were ticketed and towed,

And nobody checked whereas they're there legally or not ? That exactly my point - your system sucks and you keep blaming immigrants !

they do everything backwards,

do they ? why hire them on the first place ? They are there illegally, have no skills obviously and you still hire them? because they are cheap ?

What that make you scrooge and an accomplice in crime ! Well, you were calling for putting them into the prison ? You should have a cell next to them, moron !

I dont encourage people to break laws or rules to get what they want

Yes you do ! as you have proved yourself, all in one post !

to lie, cheat and get over on people.

Really? Maybe for people from slums, and you should know something about it!
Anyway, those swiping generalizations are useless - some do and some don't (sorry Seanus )!

what IS too many? where ironside...

Well, people like what fuzz ? People who are not sucking up ? People with self-respect ? what was that fuzz ?
To answer your question : 300 000 per year actually overstaying their visas would be too many!

ironside but that's exactly what you want.

For you to set clear criteria for everyone, set immigration laws and set internal control thats works and implement it ! That would be fine !
What you have net with prejudice, and Mexicans flooding your country, but no drop of 12 ooo Poles per year would just drown us ! ******* BS! Stop that hypocritical BS and set your country right instead of blaming the others for your shortcomings !Thats what I want!

Even an idiot could manage if they decided to overstay their visa.

Well, I'm sure now that you are one of them - bureaucrats!
bimber94 7 | 254
30 Dec 2010  #191
How about barring Americans from Poland? Trouble is, they're probably of Polish background anyway,
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
30 Dec 2010  #192
Ironside wrote:

Well, people like what fuzz ? People who are not sucking up ? People with self-respect ? what was that fuzz ?

is this like.....a polish guy tryin' to talk smack?

You're such a typical Polish dude. Guys like you were my absolute WORST nightmare during English classes. Young Polish guy, educated and well read in history, nationalistic, blindly catholic, no sense of style, zero creativity or imagination, and has never been to the USA yet has plenty to say about the place.

Ucchhhh....the absolute worst guys to teach. Soooo glad my days of dealing with schlubs like you in the classroom are over.
Ironside 48 | 9,705
30 Dec 2010  #193
a typical Polish dude.

I'm not typical at all!
Point is you don't know me. However I know educated Americans like yourself, are often oblivious to the local sensitivities, sometimes stamped with secular brand on their forehead!

Arrogant, and so sure that the american way is the way!
And those with prospect in administration are the worst kind!

nationalistic,

matter of opinion !

blindly catholic

matter of opinion and a very nonsensitive and callous of you fuzz!

no sense of style, zero creativity or imagination

its all is the matter of opinion.....
And if you getting personal I can only say that I don't care about opinion of bureaucratic dullard !
What about the issue we discus, nothing to say eh?
ShawnH 8 | 1,498
30 Dec 2010  #194
IF the truth hurts,thats just too bad,

Just an observation, my little onion and vinegar marinated friend!
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
30 Dec 2010  #195
ironside wrote:

nothing to say eh?

about what?
Ironside 48 | 9,705
30 Dec 2010  #196
about what?

About the numbers ! You were asking about them and I have given them to you ! So, what your reaction, thoughts - ******* something !
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
30 Dec 2010  #197
ironside wrote:

You were asking about them and I have given them to you ! So, what your reaction, thoughts - ******* something !

i can't believe i'm even entertaining this question.....

aside from everything I've already written, if you would like me to comment on 300,000, I'd simply say you're out of your mind to suggest that 250,000 additional illegals from Poland every year in the USA still wouldn't justify excluding Poland from the VWP. Not only for the USA's sake would that be a disaster, but it would be catastrophic to Poland's economy and its already abismal birth rate.
Ironside 48 | 9,705
30 Dec 2010  #198
Its diplomacy :) Actually I think that more then 30 000 illegals per year would be enough to justify exclusion of Poland from the VWP!
I think that there never was more of them in the first place!Well, except maybe of few years after 89!

would be catastrophic to Poland's economy

Poland needs radical change otherwise is doomed anyway!

As for USA I would hate to lecture you what need to be done!
tygrys 2 | 294
31 Dec 2010  #199
As for USA I would hate to lecture you what need to be done!

Good, it's about time people from other countries mind their own business
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
31 Dec 2010  #200
Ironside wrote:

Actually I think that more then 30 000 illegals per year would be enough to justify exclusion of Poland from the VWP!

As expected. Now maybe we can talk turkey.

30,000 illegals per year would be enough for you, someone who thinks that Poland's present exclusion from the VWP is chamstwo of the worst kind.

consider this: 107,000 poles in 2009 recieved tourist visas, around 12,000 were denied. I think we can agree if we can accept a little bit of speculation, that at least 50% of those 12,000 applicants were in fact planning on overstaying their travel visas, maybe even never returning. This is obviously a VERY tiny fraction of Poland's population as a whole but for all intensive purposes, it still leaves you with around 6,000 illegals.

now, here's the next thing to consider: think about how many Poles who have relatives/close friends in Illinois, New York City and state, Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Minnesota, Wisconsin, New Jersey....who wanted to go to the USA last year and most likely overstay and work illegally but didn't go because either they knew they'd get denied a visa (or have already been denied and didn't want to try again) or they simply couldn't be bothered with the hours and hours of traveling to Warsaw/Krakow (possibly with their children) and standing in line, paying all the application fees, etc.

Is it completely irrational to imagine that if the USA completely opened the doors up for Polish travel, our 6,000 illegals per year number could double? Triple? If we were suddenly looking at 15,000-20,000 illegals per year Ironside, 10,000 less than your number of "30,000", would THAT justify the USA's ongoing refusal to not grant Poland visa free travel?

Something else to think about: There are currently around 600,000 poles living and working in the UK, a country they had very little connection to before 2004 when the doors opened, but they all scooted out there for better pay and a better life for them and their families and it's only been 6 years. Now consider the USA, a country that ALREADY has experienced several waves of Polish immigration over the years, accumulating a population of 10,000,000. Sure, people like to argue that Poles prefer the UK because it's cheaper to fly there and it's within the EU meaning they can work legally (a valid point) but consider the fact that if even .00075% of Poland decided to go to America next year and overstay their visa so they can work in a country that has no prejudice against Polish immigrants (or at the very least, an abismal amount compared to the tensions they are currently dealing with in the UK at present), friends/family who already have decades, even several generations of life and success in the country, social networks above and beyond the UK, a larger choice of cities to live in.......and what would you get?

.00075% = 30,000.

NOW, sure, you can read all this and still shout "speculation!" but man, whether it is or isn't, is it something that difficult to imagine? When considering all this, do you still feel just as confident taking a completely close minded stance on the topic, adamantly pushing on that Poland's exclusion from the VWP is beyond a shadow of a doubt "unjustifiable"?

Or, is your "30,000" closer to reality than you might expect?
tygrys 2 | 294
31 Dec 2010  #201
It is Poland who is restricting the visa to US, because they do not return and Poland will be left empty. But of course, they gotta blame America for their dishonesty.
Ironside 48 | 9,705
31 Dec 2010  #202
That is all a very well and logical but as you say it is built on a pure speculations! You ask me to imagine, you are taking about close minded stance and all!

Well, I can image things, I can even put myself into your shoes and see it from your point of view.
However, I self-appointed myself here on PF to represent interest of Poland! As such I'm not willing to consider speculations and imagination as a fact!

I can grand you that that you have taken into account a many circumstances. Yet, you didn't provided any hard data - no numbers of actual illegal immigrants from Poland!

Most likely such data doesn't exists and US policy is based on such estimations as you have presented above.
I think that they should reconsider!

f we were suddenly looking at 15,000-20,000 illegals per year Ironside,

Well, you are forgetting that Poland population has shrinking capacity for emigration, and even if some of them decide to become illegals in USA when they can go legally to others country's of EU, then you will find that even less people will be going to USA!

Those 20 000 hypothetical, I imagine that could happen in the first year or two after opening visa free travel!However later that current would dry out, less young people, opportunity in Europe, and most of a people which are prone to emigrate, have emigrated already !

Sure, people like to argue that Poles prefer the UK because it's cheaper to fly there and it's within the EU meaning they can work legally (a valid point) but consider the fact that if even

Most of Poles from UK would not choose emigration to USA for number of reasons:
- that kind of money they can earn as illegal immigrants they can have in UK legally whiteout these risks and indignities an illegal immigrant is likely to face !

- some are planing to go back to Poland
- they have opportunity for legal emigration to Canada, New Zealand or Australia !
Sure, there always people up for an adventure but it would be only a trickle not a flood as your predictions shows !
I understand plan for the worst but consider this : is this hypothetical danger in the long run is worth of antagonizing Poland?

It is Poland who is restricting the visa to US, because they do not return and Poland will be left empty.

Really? Poland government doesn't care as they think in the short terms of the next election !
Money send by Poles from abroad is a considerable amount, and it improves all statistical and real economical situation of the country! So, they don't give a shite if those monies are from Poles in USA, UK or the Moon, also emigrants means less unemployed and more work places - and which government would resist to take a credit for that ?

So, no sunshine is not Poland doing !
I must say that for born and breed American for a few generations, your English is positively dreadful, are you a retard or semi-illiterate ?

NOW, sure, you can read all this and still shout "speculation!" but man, whether it is or isn't, is it something that difficult to imagine? When considering all this, do you still feel just as confident taking a completely close minded stance on the topic, adamantly pushing on that Poland's exclusion from the VWP is beyond a shadow of a doubt "unjustifiable"?

That is all a very well and logical but as you say it is built on a pure speculations! You ask me to imagine, you are taking about close minded stance and all!

Well, I can image things, I can even put myself into your shoes and see it from your point of view.
However, I self-appointed myself here on PF to represent interest of Poland! As such I'm not willing to consider speculations and imagination as a fact!

I can grand you that that you have taken into account a many circumstances. Yet, you didn't provided any hard data - no numbers of actual illegal immigrants from Poland!

Most likely such data doesn't exists and US policy is based on such estimations as you have presented above.
I think that they should reconsider!

f we were suddenly looking at 15,000-20,000 illegals per year Ironside,

Well, you are forgetting that Poland population has shrinking capacity for emigration, and even if some of them decide to become illegals in USA when they can go legally to others country's of EU, then you will find that in time, less and less people will be going to USA!

Those 20 000 hypothetical immigrants per year?
I imagine that could happen in the first year or two after opening visa free travel!However later that current would dry out, less young people, opportunity in Europe, and a fact that most of the people which are prone to emigrate, would have emigrated already !

Sure, people like to argue that Poles prefer the UK because it's cheaper to fly there and it's within the EU meaning they can work legally (a valid point) but consider the fact that if even

Most of Poles from UK would not choose emigration to USA for number of reasons:
- that kind of money they can earn as illegal immigrants they can have in UK legally whiteout these risks and indignities an illegal immigrant is likely to face !

- some are planing to go back to Poland
- they have opportunity for legal emigration to Canada, New Zealand or Australia !
Sure, there always people up for an adventure but it would be only a trickle not a flood as your predictions shows !
I understand you plan for the worst, but consider this : is this hypothetical danger in the long run is worth of antagonizing Poland?

It is Poland who is restricting the visa to US, because they do not return and Poland will be left empty.

Really? Poland's government doesn't care as they think in the short terms of the next election !
Money send by Poles from abroad is a considerable amount, and it improves all statistical and real economical situation of the country!
They don't give a **** if those monies are from Poles in USA, UK or the Moon, also emigrants means lower unemployed and more workplaces available - and which government would resist to take a credit for that ?

So no, sunshine is not Poland's doing !
I must say that your English is positively dreadful as for a native speaker.
tygrys 2 | 294
31 Dec 2010  #203
Money send by Poles from abroad is a considerable amount, and it improves all statistical and real economical situation of the country! So, they don't give a shite if those monies are from Poles in USA, UK or the Moon, also emigrants means less unemployed and more work places

Typical Polish thinking. Why do Poles always want to emigrate somewhere? Why don't they do something for their own country?

I must say that for born and breed American for a few generations, your English is positively dreadful, are you a retard or semi-illiterate ?

Lol. Duh, we all fat retards here so why Polaks all mad about not getting a visa? They will get the "Amerykańska Zaraza". Go back to school and learn better english yourself because you make no sense with your stupid, immature comments.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
31 Dec 2010  #204
Unions. A concept which is way past its time. Just look at the UAW and you'll get an idea of what's wrong with them. The UAW played a big part in wrecking the auto industry in the US.

Of course management with their million dollar salary's had nothing to do with the auto industry's demise. It was all those $25/hr shop workers.
Eurola 4 | 1,906
31 Dec 2010  #205
I read a little bit of the polish worker bashing but I find it not really true. This is the old style of thinking that polish women clean houses, are housekeepers and polish men are a bad contractors. Some are, just like every ethnicity. However, many second generation polish, many even first, are the best in whatever they do. Their pride in work is appreciated and admired. I had my condo remodeled two years ago, and i had polish painters, plumbers, carpenters...and I would not change them for anybody also. All of them did a superb job. Excellent, honest and with attention to detail. There are a few, if any, polish people coming to the USA now. Too bad. I would hate to hire Mexicans or Asians workers to do the job. Forget the American construction style..quick and done with cheap materials, but charged highly. So there. The few bad apples you people come across, and your personal feeling, should not shape your opinion - try to be true and fair.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
31 Dec 2010  #206
Ironside wrote:

However, I self-appointed myself here on PF to represent interest of Poland!

Indeed. Which is why you will type on and on waving the white and red flag, regardless if it makes any sense or not. You're a dime a dozen on PF.

Most likely such data doesn't exists

you go on and on about "no hard data" yet at the same time, your entire discourse is held together by "most likely" and you then have the audacity to tell me that the point I'm trying to make is "pure speculation". I'm simply asking you to consider the possibility, you won't even try. Blind nationalistic pride. Boo hoo hoo.

Ironside wrote:

also emigrants means lower unemployed and more workplaces available

actually it means more of your tax dollars spent on education disappearing and going elsewhere to find a better life. remember how many skilled laborers left Gdansk to go work in Norway because wages were several times higher? how about the number of doctors Poland lost to the UK because they simply couldn't earn a decent wage in Poland?

guardian.co.uk/money/2005/may/15/workandcareers.europeanunion

You stick with your conspiracy theory, I'll stick with logistics. Enjoy.
Eurola 4 | 1,906
31 Dec 2010  #207
skilled laborers left Gdansk to go work in Norway because wages were several times higher?

Not only Norway (but I'm sure you know that already). Sadly, Poland needs to fix the way they pay their workers. It would put the emigration to a halt - immediately. As long as it pays more to be a house cleaner/housekeeper for more money in the West than doing it at home...or to be an accountant, a teacher, a nurse - why not? The capitalistic drive for goods and better life justifies the means to get it.
Ironside 48 | 9,705
31 Dec 2010  #208
I'm simply asking you to consider the possibility,

Well, but I do ! Well, admit Poland into the VWP and if your worst speculation become reality, you can always revise your policy !

pure speculation"

maybe not pure but speculation nevertheless !

Blind nationalistic pride. Boo hoo hoo.

BS ! I don't see sense in your policy towards Poland ! You don;t even consider my points but stick to your bureaucratic BS and you expect me to fall for your bureaucratic way of thinking boooo!

actually it means more of your tax dollars spent on education

Ah I do not advocate on favor of emigration, I think is a disaster! I have just presented a view on the matter of polish moronic government!

I'll stick with logistics.

What logistic ? based on estimated data and outdated circumstances - good luck !
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
31 Dec 2010  #209
Ironside wrote:

Well, admit Poland into the VWP and if your worst speculation become reality, you can always revise your policy !

eventually you gotta ask yourself, "why?"

Why should America change their policy? What do they have to gain by giving Poles visa free travel? 90% that want to go are able to go anyway! What's the point of changing the policy so the other 10% can go, people who are going to spend little to no money while they're there anyway?

Ironside wrote:

Ah I do not advocate on favor of emigration, I think is a disaster!

which is why you need to consider the fact that it may be Poland, not the USA that is holding on to the VWP exclusion. Poland took an absolute beating when hundreds of thousands went to the UK, Scandanavia, Germany, and at some point the Polish government is going to want to put a stop to it. It's a recipe for disaster for a socialized country so maybe USA is not to blame for it at all?
tygrys 2 | 294
31 Dec 2010  #210
Well, you can do it but there should be the same treatment of USA citizens on Poland's part !

US had visas to Poland which were abolished in April of 1991. Poland was losing tourism because of it and many illegal Poles had trouble getting a visa back to Poland and were afraid they would get caught, causing more Poles to stay here illegaly.

I'm just angry when I read about some granny who cann't visit her grandchildren,

Why don't the grandchildren visit their granny? Is it because they are here illegally and afraid they will get caught? Why do poles always blame America when they can't visit, coz the family that's here won't go to Poland?


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