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If America is so bad, why move here?


jacobsgold 1 | 1
22 Dec 2011  #1
Sadly I imagine asking this question will raise some peoples blood pressure after reading the opinions of some Polish people on these forums of America and it's people. Most are based on a stereotype they have seen on TV reality shows, internet & movies it appears which I guess is understandable. I am sure my vision of Polish life is not what I have heard.

My ancestors immigrated to America at the turn of the 19th century from Krakow and Warsaw. They prospered becoming merchants in the cities they settled in. We are now Americans with a Polish ancestory that we hope to keep alive. No, I do not speak Polish. I speak the language of my country. If I moved to Poland I would not insult the people by not learning their language.

In America we have our own set of left, and right, wing conspiracy nuts. Everything that doesn't go the way they believe it should is a secret government plot. Just like little green men visit Disney World on vacation, but our government won't tell us. Hopefully the opinions I have seen stated on the forums does not reflect the majority of the way the Polish people feel.

So, if the Polish people do think so badly of America, and it's people, why compain about needing a visa? It is true we Americans do not want anyone in this country illegally. Why? Because our taxes are used by people who aren't contributing and we cannot afford it although I imagine I would be considered "rich" in Poland.

I must admit I found one complaint about Americans being overweight as funny. I can't imagine anyone getting upset over anothers weight. You have too much time on your hands if something as petty as that can bother you. Just remember that Americans find Poles behavior as unusual compared to our society. The clothes, skin color and language do not matter. It's what's inside.

One last thing I noted on these forums is a hatred of the Jews. No, I am very Roman Catholic so don't even try I am a Jew. I thought Hitler's concentration camps were a distant memory. One of my ancestors died in a concentration camp as an experiment. I find it disgusting that any Pole would still blame all the problems in the world on the Jews.

OK, now I will put up my defense shield and wait for the first round of missles to land. lol

Wesołych Śhviąt Bozego Narodzenia
peterweg 36 | 2,316
22 Dec 2011  #2
As American's sometimes point out on this , Poles don't know much about their country, so they imagine its a good place to emigrate too.

Basically Poles who want to emigrate are ignorant about America, although some have family.

The numbers are small compared to emigrants to Western Europe where the healthcare system and wages are better for Poles.
Olaf 6 | 956
22 Dec 2011  #3
The first half of your post seems something I would agree with, but the other half...

I can't imagine anyone getting upset over anothers weight.

But you would agree that some of them should really be charged more for taking twice the space? E.g. in public transport. Some should buy two tickets, in places especially. Ever sat next to a giant (and I don't mean here basketball players or "Valuev" types, but real whales!) person on a 14 hour flight? Some of them practicly sweat mayonaise.

It's what's inside.

Double cheesburger and french fries I suppose.

One of my ancestors died in a concentration camp as an experiment.

So maybe you should address some questions to the Germans then.

I find it disgusting that any Pole would still blame all the problems in the world on the Jews.

Dafug? Sure there are some "haters" like that everywhere, also in Poland unfortunately, but I've heard such bullsh*t stories you mention only in the US, not Poland.

Go talk to people in the US or read more. Much more racial-based and ethnic-based hatred in the US than in Europe, let alone Poland.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
22 Dec 2011  #4
because majority of them simply don't give a ****.

I beg to differ. My students constantly complained about it as well as many people on this forum.

Even though it's been kicked around a million times on this forum, the OP's question is still a valid one.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
22 Dec 2011  #5
Śhviąt

Ugh. Don't try and use Polish if you can't use it properly!

We are now Americans with a Polish ancestory that we hope to keep alive.

You could start by....visiting Poland!

Just remember that Americans find Poles behavior as unusual compared to our society.

Yes, I suppose the lack of gun crime, the lack of racial tension and the lack of masses of fat people is unusual.
grubas1
22 Dec 2011  #6
it's been kicked around a million times on this forum, the OP's question is still a valid one.

True but that's because you guys (SOME Americans) can't take any criticism whatsover and treat it as a personal attack.To every decent person it should be obvious that there are pros and cons of living in the US just like anywhere else.Face it,United States is not perfect and everyone has a right to voice his/her opinion.
mafketis 20 | 7,159
22 Dec 2011  #7
It is true we Americans do not want anyone in this country illegally.

A majority of American citizens might, quite reasonably, not want people to be in the country illegally, but the ruling classes (dem and repub) love, love, love having lots of people in the country illegally which is why the leadership of both parties work to keep the floodgates (for Mexicans at least) open. You don't expect the wealthy to pay a living wage to the hired help do you?

And I don't know what decade you're living in, but most Polish people don't really want to move to the US. Many would like to be able to visit but membership in the EU has given most of them much better (closer) options for working abroad than anything the US can offer.

The visa issue now is mostly about respect. It rankles many Poles that Poland has been a very good and dependable ally of the US for 20 years now and is still treated with a marked lack of respect. Face it, the US has never been a very good or dependable ally for Poland (and many other countries).
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
22 Dec 2011  #8
The visa issue now is mostly about respect. It rankles many Poles that Poland has been a very good and dependable ally of the US for 20 years now and is still treated with a marked lack of respect. Face it, the US has never been a very good or dependable ally for Poland (and many other countries).

Blimey, I didn't just read this, did I?

The US has very much adopted the British attitude of "well, maybe" - I'd say. No bad thing for America.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
22 Dec 2011  #9
the lack of racial tension

haha, i couldn't help but point out how silly that is, comparing racial tension in america (the biggest melting pot in the world) to Poland, the whitest god damn place in the world where 99% of all of it's population is the same, speaks the same language natively, etc.

Tell you what, we'll give you 1,000,000 of our African Americans and get back to me in a year about how the racial tension is doing in Poland. ha!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
22 Dec 2011  #10
haha, i couldn't help but point out how silly that is, comparing racial tension in america (the biggest melting pot in the world) to Poland, the whitest god damn place in the world where 99% of all of it's population is the same, speaks the same language natively, etc.

I'm not comparing, I'm just pointing out that the lack of racial tension would indeed be unusual for Americans.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
22 Dec 2011  #11
it would be replaced by total ignorance of other races. you can't know people if you've never met them, sat down and spoken with them, lived with them/around them. oddly enough, the same phenomenon happens in America when kids grow up in entirely white towns. you could realistically grow up in certain parts of the midwest and not once meet and speak with a black person and when they go to college out of state and suddenly are around them, they don't even know how to handle themselves. now imagine that situation with a total language barrier if a large mass of them moved to Poland.
a.k.
22 Dec 2011  #12
jacobsgold

On this forum there is many Americans who irritates me and probably many other people (not only Polish) are irritated by them. That's why a nasty comments appear. Don't take it too serious it's an inner war between some posters. As for the stereotypig read how many negative and insulting stereotypes about Poles are posted here. So cheer up! :)

One last thing I noted on these forums is a hatred of the Jews. No, I am very Roman Catholic so don't even try I am a Jew. I thought Hitler's concentration camps were a distant memory. One of my ancestors died in a concentration camp as an experiment. I find it disgusting that any Pole would still blame all the problems in the world on the Jews.

That's your fellow Polish American problem. Again some newbie thinks that Poles are sitting on a forum and discuss their matters in... English! This forum is for foreigners not Poles. Here are only a few Poles.
peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
22 Dec 2011  #13
So, if the Polish people do think so badly of America, and it's people, why compain about needing a visa?

I don't know why they compain. Maybe they want to join or visit they relatives in USA? Maybe they want feel equality of opportunity among other European citizens but really they not going visit USA?
sa11y 5 | 331
22 Dec 2011  #14
Maybe they want to join or visit they relatives in USA? Maybe they want feel equality of opportunity among other European citizens but really they not going visit USA?

Exactly that - for any other kind of stay you always need a visa anyway. So USA is basically limiting their number of tourists (as I believe that people who are desperate to get there to work will do this anyway).

I thought about going to USA, but the fact that you have to organize everything before going there to get the visa is a big deterrent for me - I'm not the package holiday type...
ceper
22 Dec 2011  #15
In America we have our own set of left, and right, wing conspiracy nuts.

I would say so, most of them in government and media who allege others have weapons of mass destruction, the rest simply believers willing to start war on that premise alone. So what is a preemptive war if not pure aggression with a lame ass excuse concocted by the conspiracy nuts? Care to explain? That alone makes everyone more or less a conspiracy nut in the US.

So, if the Polish people do think so badly of America, and it's people, why compain about needing a visa?

Ah the age old delusion of grandeur. Do you have a reading comprehension problem or are you simply full of it? Most comments about US visa are made in the context of fair play. US should not have a special privilege when traveling to Poland, visa should be implemented in a reciprocal fashion for the US citizens when traveling to Poland, now **** off.

I must admit I found one complaint about Americans being overweight as funny.

You yourself complain about the fatties as it was pointed out by another poster here and want to charge them double for taking more space, we simply point out the obvious.

I find it disgusting that any Pole would still blame all the problems in the world on the Jews.

Are you insinuating something here? Perhaps refreshing your history lesson is in order? Likewise Gitmo is in Cuba but it doesn’t mean that what happens there is the fault of Cuban people or their idea.

OK, now I will put up my defense shield and wait for the first round of missles to land.

Ironic, isn’t it? As you have already fired the first shot, that must be that preemptive strike doctrine in you, something you Yanks are good at yet blame others for retaliation. Oh you poor Yanks.
a.k.
22 Dec 2011  #16
Just remember that Americans find Poles behavior as unusual compared to our society. The clothes, skin color and language do not matter. It's what's inside.

I can show you what's unusual for Poles:

I can't give links so try to find a video on youtube named "Don't Insult the T-Rex".

America is tolerant? Who do you want to fool?
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
22 Dec 2011  #17
I thought about going to USA, but the fact that you have to organize everything before going there to get the visa is a big deterrent for me - I'm not the package holiday type...

It can be a royal pain without blood relatives there to petition for you but it can be done.

If you work for a company that has its headquarters or daughter companies in the USA, you can go there on a work visa. The company can do this for you in a very short period of time. Once you're in-country for a few years, you should be able to find options open to you to stay there for as long as you want.

OR, while you're there, marry an American and the rest is history. Fastest way to US citizenship is through marriage. Exactly 33 months after marrying an American (if you maintain residency in the USA over that period of time) you can apply for citizenship. There are over 300 million in the USA, I'm sure you could find a good one ;)
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
22 Dec 2011  #18
If America is so bad, why move here?

the opinions of some Polish people on these forums of America and it's people.

It's easily explained. People who have never even been here and make comments tend to either get a negative opinion about Americans from television and their own ignorance. The second thing is people are jealous, that this country is the richest, strongest militarily, huge in size etc.
Harry
22 Dec 2011  #19
this country is the richest, strongest militarily, huge in size etc.

But it still isn't Poland, which is why those of us who have the choice of where to live choose to live here.
a.k.
22 Dec 2011  #20
FUZZYWICKETS

I thought she want to go there for holidays not for the rest of her life...
ceper
22 Dec 2011  #21
If you work for a company that has its headquarters or daughter companies in the USA, you can go there on a work visa.

Not a chance, not very appealing prospect. I worked with few Yanks before and if that’s what one can expected there, well let’s just say it’s not a very pleasant work environment.

OR, while you're there, marry an American and the rest is history.

No thanks, same as above, eight hours a day I can deal with a life time of that on the other hand, don’t think so. Once the honeymoon period is over, I’m sure that part would be great. Pass.

The second thing is people are jealous, that this country is the richest, strongest militarily, huge in size etc.

See what I mean about the delusion of grandeur.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
22 Dec 2011  #22
Not a chance, not very appealing prospect. I worked with few Yanks before and if that’s what one can expected there, well let’s just say it’s not a very pleasant work environment.

absolutely positively subjective. your opinion, your personal experience.
Crow 137 | 7,585
22 Dec 2011  #23
If America is so bad, why move here?

because of USA government. USA government terrorize whole planet and bringing many nice things to USA
modafinil - | 418
22 Dec 2011  #24
The second thing is people are jealous, that this country is the richest, strongest militarily, huge in size etc.

Not too sure if it's jealousy. I for one could never envy America, Americans or its immigrants. My work is with a US company and I could get a Green card as easily as a Christmas card. Most criticism, for and against, comes from an arrogant conceit that their nation's way is the best and only way.
time means 5 | 1,310
22 Dec 2011  #25
USA government terrorize whole planet

Crow someone throughout history has always been top dog. If it wasn't the US at the moment it would be someone else.
Lyzko
22 Dec 2011  #26
America is so skilled at PR (Public Rrelations/Advertising) that it is able to sell the world on the American 'Dream', i.e. "If you think things will be tough here, they're always thrice to four times as bad anywhere else, so shut up and enjoy the best of all possible worlds - USA ALL THE WAY!!" (Courtesy of the American media/Hollywood...)

Many buy into this garbage. Others, thankfully, are more discerning:-))))
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
22 Dec 2011  #27
But it still isn't Poland, which is why those of us who have the choice of where to live choose to live here.

See what I mean about the delusion of grandeur.

Yes that's why so many Poles left for the US. $14.526 trillion GDP no other country comes close. China is trying but it has a long way to go I'm not gonna even speak of it's per capita rank, a joke.
ceper
22 Dec 2011  #28
Yes that's why so many Poles left for the US.

Most left during the cold war period, during the solidarity movement, way before the communism ever collapsed due to the Polish romanticism believing there’s still a part of the world where honor and riotousness prevail, as it turns out this American Dream or Polish idea of what it was never existed, that it’s all but an illusion and a cheap PR campaign, a Utopian state that never existed. You won’t find many believers anymore, stop living in the past and move on with the program. What was true almost a quarter of a century ago has long disappeared.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
22 Dec 2011  #29
$15.144 trillion debt: no other country comes close.

It don't matter the economy is huge once the recession ends it will pay it off faster than the EU can even blink. This happens all the time, last time in 1980 and lasted till the early 90s. Experts say about 5 more years and it will get back on it's feet. Even so the recession is much worse in the EU. Wages are more or less the same you guys pay much more for food, gas (pertol) cars etc.

Most left during the cold war period, during the solidarity movement, way before the communism ever collapsed due to the Polish romanticism believing there’s still a part of the world where honor and riotousness prevail

What?? People left for money that's it.
beckski 12 | 1,617
22 Dec 2011  #30
The clothes, skin color and language do not matter. It's what's inside.

Some people are just too blind to see things that way.


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