It's silly to compare the language nuances and accuse others of lack of manners.
To a point. But it's hard to imagine an Englishman saying "Zajęty" in an abrupt manner to a stranger, or a shop assistant saying a brusque "nie ma".
English/British rudeness - what do Polish people think about it?
To a point. But it's hard to imagine an Englishman saying "Zajęty" in an abrupt manner to a stranger, or a shop assistant saying a brusque "nie ma".
zetigrek
18 Nov 2012 #32
How about Welshmen? ;)
Even less so ;-)
zetigrek
18 Nov 2012 #34
Why?
It's 2012.. not the 1920s.
Could you approximate the year that politeness went out the door in your country? Apparently in your country it was polite to open doors for women in the 1920's.
I can't imagine you giving up a seat for a pregnant woman or an elderly person since you darn right paid for the ticket and got there first. Was it ever polite to do that in your country? When did it stop and why?
NorthMancPolak 4 | 642
18 Nov 2012 #36
I can't imagine you giving up a seat for a pregnant woman or an elderly person since you darn right paid for the ticket and got there first.
HH would probably say "oh the last time I gave up my seat to a 'pregnant' woman, she replied 'I'm not pregnant ya c**t!!!' so that's why I don't do it".
Though I suspect that this is an urban myth, because (a) it never happens to me, and (b) I always get a smile and a "thanks".
Then again, I don't spend all Friday and Saturday evening typing "benefity how much Polish people" into Google, or posting cr*p about Polish people on a Polish forum. There's a moral in there somewhere :)
I can't imagine you giving up a seat for a pregnant woman or an elderly person
Thats two different pair of shoes, but coming from you it doesnt supremacy(punt intended) me.
Oh and im only living in Berlin. ;)
Wroclaw Boy
18 Nov 2012 #38
I can't imagine you giving up a seat for a pregnant woman or an elderly person since you darn right paid for the ticket and got there first.
You're such a nasty b@st@rd Jola.
Ok so hes a German get over it, and the black American girl from the other thread what the hell did she do for you to suggest visiting Africa?
Virtually everything you write has venom in it.
zetigrek
18 Nov 2012 #39
"oh the last time I gave up my seat to a 'pregnant' woman, she replied 'I'm not pregnant ya c**t!!!' so that's why I don't do it".
It happened to my friend... I mean she was the supposedly pregnant woman and she didn't call anyone c**t. Just wept at home and enroled on a gym ;)
NorthMancPolak 4 | 642
18 Nov 2012 #40
enroled on a gym ;)
This is always a good thing, so she shouldn't be too upset ;)
This has been the case for so long that the 'ty' form is almost forgotten.
What are you talking about?
The common use of thee/thou/thine/etc. went out centuries ago! Yes, there are some vestiges of it in some Northern dialects (I'll si' thi' later) - but this is dialect.
I really don't think one can say that there is a familiar or singular form of 'thee/thou' in Modern English - that is just misleading. If so we would teach 'I - thee/thou - he/she/it' ... come on : )
Both examples were very posh English middle-class type people, who obviously have been educated a certain way, in a certain culture who in their minds think they are very refined people.
Hmm ... sorry, but going through your description, I can't see the rudeness. Now you know what that means? It means that in the cultural code in which those people have been brought up, they weren't being rude - so they weren't being rude. In the same way that if a Polish person is very direct with me, I can't take it as rudeness, because that is not their intention, so you shouldn't read the behaviour of these Brits as rude.
Example 1:
The old lady wasn't being patronising. If it was cold, and there were only three seats, and you were sitting in the middle, and are a man, and they are old ladies ... well, even as a younger woman I would straight away jump up and move over so they could sit down. To my mind, that you had to think about it was a tad ... rude. They were old, and cold too. Even if they hadn't been ... but usually the older female is offered respect and help.
When you did finally move, she was grateful, and thanked you - and in our language, she wasn't being effusive - that is just how we talk.
Actually she was rather polite, because she didn't ASK you to move - she just waited to see if you would. And that is another thing - we have an unspoken code of behaviour. The done thing would be to move. If you hadn't have moved, she wouldn't have asked - because it is your moral responsibility, your conscience, and she is well-brought up enough not to ask.
Example 2:
Again, two girls together on a train. You have your bag under a fold up seat, so effectively parked in that space. It is totally normal and not in any way rude for someone to say 'sorry - would you mind moving your bag?' - she was saying this because she didn't want to barge in, pull down the seat and possibly trample on your bag - and she also probably waited because she was checking that you really had just put the bag there, and not that you were in some way using the seat.
I just can't see the rudeness in either of these situations ...
And as for the language, what you might see as exaggerated politeness, etc, is just the way we speak. If you don't adopt that, you will always seem slightly rude/foreign ...
Genuine rudeness to me is, for example:
I have been standing in a queue at the post office in Poland for c. 30 minutes. We are all bundled up in layers of clothes as it is minus 20 outside, but the post office is boiling hot - only people keep opening the door, and then it is momentarily freezing cold. It is very uncomfortable in the queue. I get to the front, and just as I go to move forwards, an old woman digs me in the ribs with her elbow, and stomps on my foot as she pushes past me. She doesn't apologise, either, and she just carries on with her business.
Just tell me how that isn't rude ...
delphiandomine 86 | 17811
18 Nov 2012 #42
Just tell me how that isn't rude ...
Same everywhere with old people and lacking manners. I used to co-manage a small shop for a summer, and it had a post office attached. The postmistress absolutely loathed the customers - not least because they complained about everything and everything. Nothing was ever good enough for them.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3895
18 Nov 2012 #43
How about Welshmen? ;)
Why?
Welsh are more courteous than the English in general, you notice it with the driving as soon as you cross the bridge.
Some notable exceptions of course...
Welsh are more courteous than the English in general, you notice it with the driving as soon as you cross the bridge.
That's a joke, right? The roads change, sure. But not the driving...
I just can't see the rudeness in either of these situations ...
Exactly, the English are very polite almost to a fault. His examples are cultural differences, he's being much to scrupulous.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2426
19 Nov 2012 #46
Kondzior, when are you going to visit Germany? First it was Canada with no culture at all, then the Brits, who are rude, what is next? I can't wait for the next chapter: the world according to Kondzior;).
Read the rules of conduct before you enter the country next time;)
Read the rules of conduct before you enter the country next time;)
poland_
19 Nov 2012 #47
Two English people walk in looking very posh, middle-aged/elderly couple clutching a poodle in a poodle-carrier, the Guardian newspaper and two cafe lattes.
As far as I know I have only ever come across this in England.
Both sound very happy with themselves and have upper class accents
Two posh English girls about 25 walk in.
What does Peterborough United Football Club have to do with life.
kondzior is more affected by British Classism that 99.9% of its subjects. What an adherent of old values you are, your English teacher did a great job...
Classless moron.
(b) I always get a smile and a "thanks"
I'm sure you do ; )
NorthMancPolak 4 | 642
23 Nov 2012 #49
It's the muscles :D
Wroclaw Boy
23 Nov 2012 #50
First it was Canada with no culture at all, then the Brits, who are rude, what is next?
His opinions are very casual on the surface observations. If he was awarded Canadian citizenship he wouldnt have hammered Canada in that thread, if he lands a nice job in the UK he'll change his mind here too.
I browsed a few headlines on the front of the UK tabloids yesterday (i never buy them) and was absolutely shocked at the crap theyre spewing and what people are buying and believing.
Point being - people write crap and lies all the time, this chap is no different.
His opinions are very casual on the surface observations
You get the feeling that he's unhappy and frustrated with his lot in life.
Foreigner4 12 | 1768
23 Nov 2012 #52
c'mon kondzior, find a way to turn those lemons into lemonade!
Spot on. You move to a new country and you don't actually have to like every character trait of the people. You just accept it and get on with life. Moaning won't change it - better to smile.
If he was awarded Canadian citizenship he wouldnt have hammered Canada in that thread
... because I'd be in a prison right now?
Man Going to Prison for Racist Forum Messages
How dare you use your freedom of opinion in a way you see fit! You must be punished by the law!
Curiously, shouting the evils of the cursed white devil is still open game. "Racism" alright.
I really don't think one can say that there is a familiar or singular form of 'thee/thou' in Modern English - that is just misleading
My point entirely. We only use the polite form.
BTW, some of us are from the North.
Foreigner4 12 | 1768
23 Nov 2012 #56
eh....that's not sounding like lemonade man
Man Going to Prison for Racist Forum Messages
proper order, I hope he's being served black sausage every night in jail.
Allowed is also making the apology of Stalin, Castro or Mao and saying they didn't engage in genocides, while it's a thought crime to even contest that the six million Jews holocaust figure is right (though many jewish holocaust historians themselves said it was much less).
genocides
Worth checking out the difference between genocide and democide.
That should keep him busy for a while.
And allow me to catch some lunch without missing his nonsense. ;)
And allow me to catch some lunch without missing his nonsense. ;)