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Poland's apartment prices continue to fall


Monitor 14 | 1,820
17 Oct 2014 #1,831
@superuser: Check this article metrohouse.pl/?idNode=135&newsId=496
Here you have comparison of profitability of this business in various cities. Katowice is on top. (it doesn't take into account potential for price growth in those cities)

Basically Poland gives one of the biggest returns from rent in Europe, so it may be a good idea to invest money in such way. There are even companies which manage your apartment. They would find tenants and take care of the apartment for some fee, so you don't even have to live in Poland.

@inWrocław: Yes I know about Berlin. On average it has higher apartment prices than Warszawa or Wrocław, but it's a big city, so differences between neighborhoods can be bigger than in Wrocław, and thus some apartments may be cheaper. That's why Berlin's houses seem to be better investment than Wrocław's or Warsaw's in the long term. Prices there increased substantially in recent years too (because of low interests in eurozone). Berlin still has 2 x lower apartment prices than for example Munich, because it pays little and has relatively big unemployment when comparing to other big German cities. But this difference should disappear in the long term as it has been disappearing until now. And that's true that Polish construction quality, not to mention design land management lacks greatly to Germany.

That's why from financial point of view immigrating to Poland has no sense. Also German nature is very similar to Polish, as it's neighboring country. So it has sense to choose Poland over Germany only when it's about people. And perhaps it's not Wrocław being expensive, but Berlin being cheap.

forsal.pl/artykuly/829451,powrot-do-przeszlosci-w-mieszkaniowce-polacy-znow-kupuja-dziury-w-ziemi.html

Sale of apartments under construction rises

37% of apartments bought in Warszawa, Kraków, Trójmiasto, Poznań, £ódź will be finished in more than 1 year.

Amount of not sold new apartment increased by 8% although.

Apartment prices September 2014:


InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
17 Oct 2014 #1,832
Yes, I know several people in Wroclaw with flats built within the last 10 years and all have some issues with faulty workmanship. 2 have court cases pending.

I must just say about rents, however. There are cities in the UK which have flats for the same price as Wro and probably Krakow, yet the rent there is almost x2. So the yield/ROCE for anyone who wants to be a landlord is higher in these cities in the UK for the same outlay on the flat and the tax to pay is probably a lot less for someone who lives in the UK.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
17 Oct 2014 #1,833
So my information wasn't correct. Are there in UK any places where it's the same easy to find tenant as in Wrocław or Kraków? How much taxes doesn't house/flat owner has to pay in UK? Poland doesn't have cadastral tax, does UK have?
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
17 Oct 2014 #1,834
The UK has seen a massive increase in tenants due to skyrocketing house prices, now almost everyone has a flat or house that they rent out. It is called "buy to let" and for some people it is considered their pension or substitute for interest on their savings deposits (UK savers are lucky to get 1.5% max gross).

I can't give investment advice but anecdotes suggest many cities find a tenant in a few days or 2 weeks. If you go to Rightmove.co.uk and the letting or rental pages, you can search for flats in various cities and see how quickly they found a tenant. The green "let agreed" on the photo means that a tenant has been found.

The problem some might say is that landlords' portfolios have pushed the price of property up making many first time buyers unable to afford anything and greedy rents have fleeced poorer members of society. If I were in government, I'd not allow landlords to do this, it is a step back to earlier centuries and the bad old days.

Quite surprised to see a good, practical plot of building land in a good area reduced 20% in price. Unless there's some part of the street I don't know about, I'd have thought land was sought-after in that spot. Must be that it's designated for a 2-storey single family dwelling only, as a flats developer would surely have been tempted. Very curious that the agent, who's well connected nationwide, has had to offer it out like this. Works out 470 PLN a sq m approx.
CloudSurfer - | 1
10 Nov 2014 #1,835
Prices for sale is still overinflated. Apartments are being put up way over the median prices, even the highest prices and this includes old units, which needs extensive renovation. You will not be able to rent out many of these apartments without loses, if you buy them on a mortgage.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
16 Dec 2014 #1,836
Still seeing the same flats at the same prices, hanging around now for what must be best part of a year. One or two developers in the better areas have cut prices to what I think are the lowest I can remember, sub 300K for one of them, and am pretty sure they were 350K a few months ago.

Elsewhere, some reasonable value creeping in to some parts of the city but still hard to really see how they're affordable to anyone but managers.

Given that I'm seeing the same apartments unsold many, many, many moons later, it doesn't look buoyant for apparently unrealistically priced property in some areas. Of course, being Xmas, that could be a factor now for greater stagnation.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
16 Dec 2014 #1,837
How big are these apartments for 300 - 350k?
pigsy 7 | 305
16 Dec 2014 #1,838
In warsaw centrum current normal flat price is 10 to 12k a sq metre in reality,I dont care what statistics say by diff companies they cook the books.Ofcourse there are high end and old flats where prices differ.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
26 Jan 2015 #1,839
Interesting conversation about debts in CHF and apartment prices in Warsaw (my loose translation):

Take into account that big portion of people with CHF mortgage bought 50m2 for 500,000. There were many such in Warsaw and I know few who payed this much in Katowice (city 40% cheaper than Warsaw). So they borrowed 200,000CHF for 40 years at 2.5PLN for 1CHF. Assuming that they pay back 50/50 capital to interests, they payed back 20% of capital until now. 160,000CHF left = 670,000PLN to pay. But mentioned apartment is worth now 350,000PLN only.

wykop/link/2361142/kilka-slow-do-frankowcow-od-szarego-obywatela/#comment-25919820

There was a company GANT. They were building apartments in 2010 in Wola, Warsaw. Buying price then was 9-10,000 PLN/m2. You can read about it in a forum. In 2014 I've been viewing one of the last 2 apartments - 2 storey, 94m2. The price offered to me was 6,200PLN/m2. I did not buy, because I have found much cheaper. Next example? Apartment in Minarska, 80m2. High quality finished and equipped with price 6,500/m2 (still available). Developer told me that in 2008 when apartment was being constructed selling price was 2 x higher. What people show in adds and for how much they sell is completely different thing.

wykop/link/2361142/kilka-slow-do-frankowcow-od-szarego-obywatela/#comment-25920680
gosc112
26 Jan 2015 #1,840
You will not be able to rent out many of these apartments without loses, if you buy them on a mortgage.

I agree completely. We're renting at the moment and getting good value. In that an interest (i.e. not even repaying the debt) only mortgage to buy our apartment would be more than the rent we are paying. So we are saving money by renting. The only reason to buy would be if you really see a big rise in prices but I don't.
pigsy 7 | 305
26 Jan 2015 #1,841
big rise in prices

That aint happening till 2022 atleast in Poland.
bullfrog 6 | 603
26 Jan 2015 #1,842
The only reason to buy would be if you really see a big rise in prices but I don't.

If you see the big rise, it means that it has already happened ie you missed it and it's too late to buy.. Sad, isn't it?
Monitor 14 | 1,820
26 Jan 2015 #1,843
That aint happening till 2022 atleast in Poland.

What's going to happen then?
pigsy 7 | 305
26 Jan 2015 #1,844
The prices might start to to move a bit I hope.


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