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Poland A, Poland B


Intermarium 11 | 64
29 Dec 2018 #1
Is this map a good representation of how socially conservative or socially liberal the various regions of Poland are?

By socially I mean in terms of views on going to church, immigration, gay marriage, feminism, etc. and not on taxes, labor unions, etc.

Can anyone explain the blue island in southwesterm Poland? Is this Legnica?



cms neuf - | 1,497
29 Dec 2018 #2
Could be - but its also pretty similar to a map of average incomes, who pays tax and levels of education ;)
mafketis 23 | 8,121
29 Dec 2018 #3
Is this map a good representation

Maybe 15 years ago.... more and more the division is becoming urban vs rural (see the latest elections where the party that won the countryside couldn't win a single mayoral election).

and you need to define conservative (part of conservatism is suspicion of outsiders, especially ones who are traditional enemies - not letting go of past grievances is very conservative).
dolnoslask 5 | 2,677
29 Dec 2018 #4
blue island in southwesterm Poland?

Easy that's where we live.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
30 Dec 2018 #5
Most of Poland seems to support the PiS.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
31 Dec 2018 #6
Only the dim part Lyzko. I never go there. I was in Krakow yesterday for the airport, but other than that, wouldn't **** on it if it was on fire.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
31 Dec 2018 #7
Only one Pole out of the majority whom I know with some degree of friendly acquaintanceship is hostile to the PiS. A vast number of Poles from around the Greenpoint area remain staunchly conservative and mostly support President Duda unstintingly!
delphiandomine 83 | 18,125
31 Dec 2018 #8
That's mostly because PiS paid off certain leaders in the Polonia community. They mostly haven't got a clue about Poland beyond shouting about "pierogies" that they ate at "Busha's house".
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
31 Dec 2018 #9
True enough. Anyway, immigrant communities throughout the United States, not only the Poles in Greenpoint, of course, also the Italians from Arthur Ave. in the Bronx, are traditionally arch conservative and usually rock-ribbed Republican.

Those Greenpoint Poles are also ardent Trumpists, I hesitate to add!
mafketis 23 | 8,121
31 Dec 2018 #10
A vast number of Poles from around the Greenpoint

Same buraki! (a description by a friend who experienced life in Greenpoint)

This same friend said the movie "Szczęśliwego nowego Yorku" was not an exaggeration, if anything it softened what things were like among them in the late1990s.

They also pointed out that most of them were from the boonies in the east and would have problems negotiating Polish cities, much less NYC...
cms neuf - | 1,497
31 Dec 2018 #11
I am fine with them voting Trump - they live in the states and they can vote for who they want. I don't really have an issue with voting for PiS. What I do hate is them trying to lobby the US govt about things they don't understand like the Constitutional Court.
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
31 Dec 2018 #12
@Lyzko

Having become aware of the incredibly high levels of corruption which occured under the previous eight years government of PO-PSL, I'm surprised that the opposition enjoys any popular support whatsoever.... or maybe 20% of the electorate had their noses in the trough.

And it is amazing how traitorous the PO Europosels are in the EU and do everything against the Polish interest.
mafketis 23 | 8,121
31 Dec 2018 #13
Having become aware of the incredibly high levels of corruption which occured under the previous eight years government of PO-PSL

hype, corruption happened but was no worse than that currently being exhibited by PiS, if it was that corrupt then Poland wouldn't have avoided the 2008 crisis...
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
31 Dec 2018 #14
Care to give any examples of PIS corruption? (And Afera KNF is hardly an example of PIS corruption)...

There are scores of examples members of PO lining their pockets....

Why was Tusk flogging off national assets for next to nothing?

Afera Hazerdowa, afera VATowska, Amber Gold etc etc etc....

You can read about them here:-

pikio.pl/pis-wylicza-wszystkie-afery-po-jest-ich-naprawde-duzo-pelna-lista
cms neuf - | 1,497
31 Dec 2018 #15
Why is the KNF affair not PiS corruption ? PiS appointees conspiring with PiS govt to pursue a change of law in the PiS run parliament.

So that is one significant and dangerous example.

state run companies are now loaded with unqualified PIS appointees on fat salaries bringing no expertise and robbing shareholders (most sensible people exited these 2 or 3 years ago).
Ironside 49 | 10,174
31 Dec 2018 #16
Is this map a good representation of how socially conservative or socially liberal the various regions of Poland are?

Nope, that just is a map the way people voted in a particular election. As it says. Can you read a map?

hype, corruption happened but was no worse than that currently being exhibited by PiS

hmm, it was worse because it was a par per course and as a matter of course. I'm sure you failed to notice that in your cocoon.

Why is the KNF affair not PiS corruption ?

Cause it is an example of inaptitude of the gov due to outdated and faulty system of governance, institutional organizations and selection of candidates for the most senior position. What you call a corruption is an native arrogant idiot meeting with a professional post-commie crook. What Ensued is pathetic comedy of misunderstanding rather than an attempted corruption case.
cms neuf - | 1,497
1 Jan 2019 #17
No - it is an example of a govt willing to change a law to punish one company and offering bribes to stop that happening. That govt and the KNF are both run by PiS appointees.

What happened before is not the issue - of course there was corruption in previous governments but this one came to power saying they would clean up institutions. The KNF is one of the key independent checks on politics and putting corrupt and incompetent idiots in charge is extremely risky for the economy - as evident also in the Sowa tapes and the Amber gold case.
mafketis 23 | 8,121
1 Jan 2019 #18
corruption in previous governments but this one came to power saying they would clean up institutions

By centralizing power at the top and decreasing transparency and accountability...
And also a lot of the corruption is nationalized - take the Smolensk investigation. How much tax money was plowed through in that fruitless endeavor? Who profited from AM's snipe hunt?
delphiandomine 83 | 18,125
1 Jan 2019 #19
state run companies are now loaded with unqualified PIS appointees on fat salaries bringing no expertise and robbing shareholders

Yup, you only have to look at the results of some of them to see how bad things are, as there's a splendid example with Grupa Azoty, which went from 91zł at the time of the 2015 election to 30zł today.

The loading of unqualified PiS appointees is getting worse and worse - I know of an example where a sports team is now under the control of one such PiS appointee, as they were given a simple choice: let him run the team (and pay him a huge salary) or we'll pull the sponsorship. The guy is your typical burak, even down to the fact that he doesn't even bother going to work most days.

The people denying this corruption are usually the ones benefiting from it or hoping to benefit from it, such as "bolek_tusk", also known as "unemployed game designer living in Newcastle".
gumishu 11 | 5,148
1 Jan 2019 #20
corruption in previous governments but this one came to power saying they would clean up institutions

you can always vote for Biedroń if you insist that PiS is no different to PO
jon357 63 | 15,043
1 Jan 2019 #21
The loading of unqualified PiS appointees is getting worse and worse

There are many many cases like this (several mentioned here in this forum); they are tolerated more in Polska B where the population is both more cynical about and more accepting of the actions of the various regimes they have had..
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
1 Jan 2019 #22
@cms neuf

I see you made no attempt to answer my points about the scores of corruption cases the PO-PSL *Government* was involved in.

The KNF affair had nothing to do with the PiS government and they have been quick expose the individual responsible even though it was one of there own supporters.
cms neuf - | 1,497
1 Jan 2019 #23
Because I am no special fan of PO or PSL - there was corruption under their rule and they spent much of their time in protecting vested interests. What else do you want me to say ? Life is not a football game where you are obliged to support one side.

The KNF affair has everything to do with PiS - they were willing to change legislation just to punish one guy. The exposure did not come from them. Their reaction was to use public media to rake up scandals and non scandals from 10 years ago - as if to say "yes we are corrupt but this is the normal way of things".
delphiandomine 83 | 18,125
1 Jan 2019 #24
The KNF affair had nothing to do with the PiS government

It had everything to do with PiS. Their own appointee was attempting to solicit an astronomically huge bribe from the owner of a bank.

Do you really believe that the cash was only for him?

There are many many cases like this (several mentioned here in this forum);.

It's going to be one hell of a mess to clean up after this lot, especially as they've been thieving on such a grand scale.

I see you made no attempt to answer my points about the scores of corruption cases the PO-PSL *Government* was involved in.

Tell us, after 3 years, why haven't we seen any serious charges laid? Could it be that the "corruption" simply didn't exist, and that it was all a smokescreen for PiS to indulge in corruption of their own while blaming others?
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
1 Jan 2019 #25
Tell us, after 3 years, why haven't we seen any serious charges laid?

That's because the corrupt judicial system (old Bolshevik judges - pro PO,KOD etc) are still largely in place. Things will rapidly change once the old guard - Pani Gersdorf et al get replaced with independent judges.

You did notice that Małgorzata Gersdorf and Andrzej Rzepliński among others were highly visible in the KOD (Soros funded) protests last year, yet people in the judiciary are supposed to be politically independent and not take part in political activism...
delphiandomine 83 | 18,125
1 Jan 2019 #26
get replaced with independent judges.

Except politicians are now responsible for appointing the KRS, which means that all new judges will be political appointees and therefore not independent.

Still, "things will change" means that you're making it clear that PiS intend on holding show trials.
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
1 Jan 2019 #27
Once the judges are appointed by the government, which is what happens in most countries, rather than by their own members, then the judiciary becomes democratically accountable. Until now the judiciary has been a self-serving elite, and could carry on its corrupt practices as it has done since the downfall of Communism. Many of the top judges have been able to select themselves from their inner circle Bolshevik apparatchiks and could not be replaced even when committing crimes.

'Things will change' means that the corrupt judges will gradually be replaced as they retire, and their replacements will be made on merit rather than on political affiliations.
delphiandomine 83 | 18,125
1 Jan 2019 #28
Once the judges are appointed by the government

and their replacements will be made on merit rather than on political affiliations.

You don't see the obvious contradiction here? In fact, why would you even believe such a thing when the same politicians pushed a person into the President of the Constitutional Tribunal who only has a Masters degree, who received negative evaluations of her work and who was considered to be a very poor judge? If we're talking about appointments based on merit, then she was one of the worst possible candidates.

More to the point, as we've already seen, the new KRS isn't doing anything on merit. In fact, quite the opposite - they pushed people into the Supreme Court who weren't qualified or experienced. Still, let's see what the media has to say -

- "Former deputy minister of justice in the PiS government with recommendation to the Supreme Court"

Rather blows apart your claim, doggy.

Things will change means that if PiS take over the courts with their political appointments, then those judges will deliver the 'correct' verdicts.
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
1 Jan 2019 #29
Gazeta Wyborcza aka Bolshevik Times.....

Founded by Adam Michnik a Communist collaborator.....economist.com/node/18833569/comments

You are of course joking
jon357 63 | 15,043
2 Jan 2019 #30
Bolshevik

Cobblers.

dam Michnik a Communist collaborator.

A very good man, jailed by Communists for opposing them, Goofs...


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