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Poland's apartment prices continue to fall


delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
17 Apr 2011  #31
Obviously it depends where and what. Something like 8-10K PLN per square meter in cities.

No way. The prices in Poznan (except some very exclusive developments - so exclusive that no-one wants to live there) are between 4000-6000PLN per square meter.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,389
17 Apr 2011  #32
(except some very exclusive developments - so exclusive that no-one wants to live there)

a few of them in wroclaw.
poland_
17 Apr 2011  #33
so exclusive that no-one wants to live there

You are mixing the so called developers that targeted high end and got their market research wrong. Truly exclusive developments in PL will always sell because they are sold to family ,friends.biz contacts and investors. They never reach the open markets. I could give you two examples of this type of building in Warsaw that has been sold in the last 12 months, the company decided who would live there, not the market.

But not having won the euro 2012 championship rights, it is the same level of disappointment

Krakow has the strongest tourist market in the whole of PL, so why give the rights to a market that does not need the extra tourism traffic. Moreover, because of its geographical location and the ease of traveling to Lviv, football fans who follow the teams that play the knock out stages in Lviv, will base themselves in Krakow.

It makes complete sense, Gdansk, Poznan, Wroclaw need to be given a leg up on the tourist map. Warsaw is of course the capital. Krakow will always be the number one location in PL for tourists, 2012 Euro or not.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
17 Apr 2011  #34
No way. The prices in Poznan (except some very exclusive developments - so exclusive that no-one wants to live there) are between 4000-6000PLN per square meter.

I said it depends where and never mentioned the type of property. The various reports I've seen about prices in cities indicated a higher price than that.

In Krakow, looking in estate agents windows its about 7.5K per M2 around here. In the old town it more like 9.5K. Which is less than before certainly.
milky 13 | 1,657
26 Apr 2011  #35
thenews.pl/business/artykul152278_germans-and-dutch-snap-up-polish-property.html

looks like everybody except Poles are purchasing property.
Harry
26 Apr 2011  #36
looks like everybody except Poles are purchasing property.

Oh dear Mark, I see that your reading skills are as tragic as ever: that article has nothing at all in it about Poles purchasing or failing to purchase property.
malyniebieski 3 | 16
15 May 2011  #37
I can see that prices have fallen, but the price change is very slow to to see from the seller to the buyer. The prices still seem very high. I mean, who can afford some of these places?

Janek
THE HITMAN - | 236
15 May 2011  #38
I mean, who can afford some of these places?

I,m sure Poland is no millionaires paradise, so .......
People with funny money ?
or, they simply don,t sell. Anyone can put a valuation on their property but finding a buyer is the drawback.
Ultimately your property is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. A lot of the valuations in Poland are over inflated ( looking for a sucker ). This is one of the reasons holding back foreign investment.
poland_
15 May 2011  #39
I,m sure Poland is no millionaires paradise, so .......

There are some very wealthy people in Poland.
THE HITMAN - | 236
16 May 2011  #40
More than some. So what difference does that make. Are they playing "monopoly" ?
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
31 May 2011  #41
Polish house prices fall

Polish banks will lend more than zł.50 billion this year to clients looking to purchase real estate, Rzeczpospolita reports. That's an increase over past years, even though the average price of homes was down across all major urban centers in Q1. Those drops were not insignificant, Jacek Furga, chairman of the Real Estate Finance Committee of the Polish Bank Association, told the newspaper. He estimates the average house price dropped by between zł.50 and zł.100 per square meter.

From Warsaw Business Journal

wbj.pl/article-54776-polish-house-prices-fall.html

Apartments in Poland cheaper than in 2010

According to recent data from real estate market researcher AMRON, the average cost of an apartment in Warsaw decreased by some zł.35,000 last year. In the first quarter of this year, the average price stood at zł.464,000, while in Q1 2010 it was zł.499,000.

In Kraków, this difference is even greater - the average transaction price dropped by more than zł.50,000 to reach zł.375,000.

"There are two main reasons behind this decline in average prices - lower apartment rates and a different structure of the market," Jerzy Ptaszyński, an analyst from AMRON, told Rzeczpospolita.

"To put it short, Poles are now buying smaller and cheaper apartments," he added.

Analysts predict that within the next year average prices will stabilize, with the possibility of a slight decline. If a decline were to happen, it should not, however, exceed five percent, they say.

wbj.pl/article-54807-apartments-in-poland-cheaper-than-in-2010.html?typ=pam
milky 13 | 1,657
4 Jun 2011  #42
This proves my origional point, that the places with the highest emigration will be the slowest to go down in price because the real-estate bubble is driven by poles working in the West.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
4 Jun 2011  #43
places with the highest emigration

So you are saying Warsaw has the highest emigration to the west?
That's far from the truth.
poland_
5 Jun 2011  #44
SeanBM - Milky, I would have thought the emigration was from rural Poland which has the highest areas of unemployment. Guys I live in Warsaw and the amount of immigrants/expats arriving here is very much on the rise and noticeable, especially in the last twelve months.
milky 13 | 1,657
5 Jun 2011  #45
So you are saying Warsaw has the highest emigration to the west?
That's far from the truth.

????????????
Place like Lublin and Puławe have seen little or no price reductions, due to the mass emigration in these areas.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
5 Jun 2011  #46
So what happened to the 60% price crash then?. You can't have it both ways Mark.
poland_
5 Jun 2011  #47
Place like Lublin and Puławe have seen little or no price reductions, due to the mass emigration in these areas.

Pulawy, there are places around there, that have not recovered in price after the floods.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
5 Jun 2011  #48
Place like Lublin and Puławe have seen little or no price reductions, due to the mass emigration in these areas.

Mark, you call me a "Thatcherite" as if I should be ashamed of that. I know the following artical is meant to apply to the UK, but, I also believe this is what should be happening in Poland.

"It is more important that the young should have the chance to buy an affordable home than that their parents should be able to call themselves nominal house-price millionaires.

Housing is a difficult political issue that is not being handled well by the Coalition. If they were Thatcherites they would take the obvious step and release more sites to bring down the price of development land and, ultimately, of houses.

The present situation has become intolerable. The best the Government could do now is set a target of 260,000 houses a year to be built and sold - and at an affordable price and at a profit to the developer".

Read more:
dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1394244/UK-housing-market-Why-Britain-launch-land-war.html#ixzz1OQhv2S2Y
poland_
5 Jun 2011  #49
"It is more important that the young should have the chance to buy an affordable home

“There are two main reasons behind this decline in average prices – lower apartment rates and a different structure of the market,” Jerzy Ptaszyński, an analyst from AMRON, told Rzeczpospolita.

According to developers that I know, who build projects throughout Poland, they are focusing on affordable housing 4-6000 PLN per m2 and 40-60 m2 per apartment. In May 2011, their company sold more apartments than any other month in the last two years. If I remember correctly - Avalaon, made this same call, well over a year ago on this forum.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
9 Jun 2011  #50
So you are saying Warsaw has the highest emigration to the west?
That's far from the truth.

Its not clear what he's saying. Krakow prices fell more than Warsaw

So what happened to the 60% price crash then?. You can't have it both ways Mark.

At that rate of descent it will take another five years.
polishmeknob 5 | 155
9 Jun 2011  #51
The same thing happened in PL in 1999 and then 2001 it was back to normal. As the road infrastructure gets better in Warsaw, people will move out to houses in the burbs.

True, true. Also, as the rail infrastructure improves, people can buy cheaper places in small towns in the outlying areas.
poland_
9 Jun 2011  #52
True a journey that takes 40 mins by train today to central Warsaw, will take 15/20 in the future. 2 million PLN in Mokotow,Zoliborz or Saska kepa, will get you very little these days, 200 m2 build with a 300m2 garden, in need of refurb, so why not buy on the outskirts with good communications.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,389
9 Jun 2011  #53
won't the good communications push the house price up

just asking.
poland_
9 Jun 2011  #54
Wroclaw

In my opinion, there is still value, buying property in areas with good communications of the outskirts of Warsaw, Gdansk,Krakow,Wroclaw and Poznan. You are going to get much more for your 500-1,000,000 PLN than buying something in better districts of town.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,389
9 Jun 2011  #55
In my opinion, there is still value, buying property in areas with good communications of the outskirts

i can go along with this for a while.

but i see a future of private estates springing up on the outskirts. these will include homes in the hands of doctors, lawyers etc.

i can think of one such (gated) estate in the wroclaw area.

apartment prices: the google building here in wroclaw is an example of overpriced apartments, still on sale after being on the market for a couple of years. the price won't drop. if it does it will be a desperate measure by the developer just to get things moving. (my opinion)

this brings up another problem that may affect prices. some developers build in the strangest of places.
poland_
9 Jun 2011  #56
but i see a future of private estates springing up on the outskirts. these will include homes in the hands of doctors, lawyers etc

Here in Warsaw, there are well in excess of 25 gated communities . Poles have always had an issue with security, look at any house built in the 70's, its like they are living in the Bronx with the security bars on the windows. If you are looking for a good area, look at a place that was once the pre-war summer retreat of the wealthy in Wroclaw, these things don't change. Prestige will always be prestige. Here in Warsaw we have Konstanscin, Milanowek/Podkowa, Zalesie G/D and Hornewek/Stare Mlociny.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,389
9 Jun 2011  #57
Here in Warsaw, there are well in excess of 25 gated communities

Sorry, i meant (gated) housing estates. 50+ houses, nice gardens.

is this what u meant ? if it is then house prices will never go down.

i would think that the only way to get a cheap apartment would be to buy something in an old style block. but then pay on top of that to bring it up to date. so, in the end. property prices are not going down
Avalon 4 | 1,068
9 Jun 2011  #58
You are only saying that to wind (Milky) Mark up.
milky 13 | 1,657
9 Jun 2011  #59
won't the good communications push the house price up

No, It will not. The prices In the cities will continue to fall until they reflect the wages of the Polish workers in Poland and its cities. The prices will not go up anywhere in Poland, they will just go down slower in Poor parts(lublin) were emigration to the west is very high. The wages in parts of the east are so low that people struggle to put petrol in their cars,never mind buying a property that has gone from 15000 euro to 50000 euro between 2004 and 2007.

"Good communication" will push nothing up,(although it will reduce road accidents and help deal with the imaginary third lane) as the West is in recession, and the "West" is what drove the prices up in the first place(as every jackass knows except for the developers on here who are "pretending" otherwise) as Poles went there in their millions and Westerners invested blindly in Polish , Hungarian property etc. For those looking for links to verify what I have said, "here you are", have a look, I have them written on my arse.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
9 Jun 2011  #60
It makes a change from the so called facts that come out of the same place.

Everyone on here is a liar except you Mark.


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