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75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2


jon357
30 Jan 2024 #121
There is only one set of posters blaming victims

The victims are those murdered in cold blood by Hamas, those women (and some children) raped by them and those people kidnapped, some of whom have already been murdered.

All are innocent. Anyone who enables that or condones it is not.

the Arabs

That's a lot of people, not all of whom are pro-Hamas. Unfortunately the relentless anti-Israel propaganda spewed out in recent years means that the younger generation tend to be extremely against the only democracy and the only free country in the region.
jon357
30 Jan 2024 #122
the ICJ found south Africa's case to be plausible and as a result is progressing with the case.

their decisions are binding.

And now they've made their final ruling in the case, a ruling which is, as you say, binding.

They have ruled that genocide has not taken place.
OP Novichok
30 Jan 2024 #123
These are people and the real cause of wars is not religion but other goals,

To kill another guy you need to make him a lesser man. His religion is one of the ways. That may not be the reason for the war but it sure makes killing easier.
Barney
30 Jan 2024 #124
And now they've made their final ruling in the case

No they have not, this case will trundle on for a few years. The usual suspects will try to exert as much pressure on the panel of judges to deliver what they consider an acceptable verdict. The case is far from over.
jon357
30 Jan 2024 #125
No they have not

They have, and they've published their ruling on the spurious case lodged by South Africa. Namely that genocide has not occurred on the part of the country that South Africa accused.

The case is far from over.

This one is. Perhaps North Korea or Eritrea or russia or some other part of your 'multipolar world' could file another.
Barney
30 Jan 2024 #126
They have, and they've published their ruling on the spurious case lodged by South Africa. Namely that genocide has not occurred on the part of the country that South Africa accused.

That is not true its a lie.

From the ICJ website
Pending cases...

Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel)

source
//icj-cij.org/pending-cases.
jon357
30 Jan 2024 #127
That's out of date.

The ruling was made several hours ago.

Feel free to keep pretending the decision went the way you hoped it might.
Barney
30 Jan 2024 #128
@jon357
You are remarkably ill-informed.
OP Novichok
30 Jan 2024 #129
JENIN, West Bank (AP) - Israeli forces disguised as civilian women and medical workers stormed a hospital Tuesday in the occupied West Bank, killing three Palestinian militants in a dramatic raid that underscored how deadly violence has spilled into the territory from the war in Gaza.

Fvck...only three...

Fauda 2.0 I love this series...
Alien
30 Jan 2024 #130
Israeli forces disguised as civilian women and medical workers stormed a hospital

Oh, great heroes!
Bobko
30 Jan 2024 #131
Israeli forces disguised as civilian women and medical workers

Pretty much the textbook definition of perfidy, as defined within law of armed conflict. The hypocrisy is stunning. Russians get in trouble for the rare operation where they put on AFU uniforms, whereas here the Jews are dressing up as women and doctors and... silence.

"The use of unlawful deceptions is called 'perfidy'. Acts of perfidy are deceptions designed to invite the confidence of the enemy to lead him to believe that he is entided to, or is obliged to accord, protected status under the law of armed conflict, with the intent to betray that confidence."

BTW, the initial information regarding a "Hamas cell" operating out of the hospital has not been confirmed. Now it seems that they were Hamas fighters being treated for injuries.

Going into a hospital dressed as women and doctors, then going room by room and finishing off injured fighters - that is true heroism.
Lyzko
30 Jan 2024 #132
When living, indeed, growing up constantly with and in danger,
one's instincts tend to kick in without thinking!

Such is scarcely uncommon in similar situations. For this reason,
the army typically doesn't want older recruits, instead, it prefers naturally
those who are still teenagers, so that they don't have the time or the inclination
to think, but simply to react.
jon357
30 Jan 2024 #133
@Barney
Or even exactly up to date.

The ruling was delivered a few hours ago.

But insult away; it's not a rare tactic...
OP Novichok
30 Jan 2024 #134
Oh, great heroes!

You are a real piece of work...An honest man would quote as follows:

Israeli forces disguised as civilian women and medical workers stormed a hospital Tuesday in the occupied West Bank, killing three Palestinian militants

What were the Palestinian "militants" doing in that hospital? Getting their ouchies treated?

Honesty is an alien concept to you.
Alien
30 Jan 2024 #135
killing three Palestinian militants

An honest person would write: killing three wounded, unable to fight Palestinian militants.
This information would only increase the scale of the heroism of these Israelis.
Bratwurst Boy
30 Jan 2024 #136
What were the Palestinian "militants" doing in that hospital? Getting their ouchies treated?

....probably looking to replenish their weapons and ammunition out of the tunnel directly under the hospital....these cowards!
Barney
30 Jan 2024 #137
@jon357
The case has not been dismissed you are clearly lying or massively misinformed or delusional.
Bobko
30 Jan 2024 #138
It would be easy enough to prove the both of us wrong, by simply posting a link to a relevant article.

Given that Jon claims it was dismissed in the last few hours, you would think Google News would be awash in articles covering the subject. However, the freshest article I see is from a few days ago by Al Jazeera, covering the biography of the strange Ugandan judge that sits on the ICJ panel. She supported zero out of the six prescriptions handed down by the Court. This, while the Israeli judge still signed on to two of the six. She's a bigger protector of Israel, than Israelis themselves.

Oh, she also sat on the trial of Liberia's Charles Taylor, where she similarly behaved strangely.
OP Novichok
30 Jan 2024 #139
killing three wounded, unable to fight Palestinian militants.

The 1300 Israelis were unable to fight, either, but were executed anyway.
I am really upset that Israelis killed only three and quickly before they could beg for their lives the way Israeli girls and women did on 10/7.

the biography of the strange Ugandan judge that sits on the ICJ panel.

I am actually surprised that you would debate that bs. Who gives a fvck what some a-hole judge says about Israel?

My position is the same here as it was about the ICC morons charging Putin with "war crimes" because he ordered Russian troops to take Ukrainian kids to Russia where they would be safe.

If Russia can claim that NATO expansion poses an existential threat to Russia (which it does), Isreal has 100 times the reason to claim that Hamas and other fanatics threaten its very existence.

Let's not forget that Russia can be wrong many times and survive. Israel needs to be wrong only once to cease to exist.

Memo to the IDF: Kill them all. We, or God, will do the sorting later...
jon357
30 Jan 2024 #140
The case has not been dismissed

Who said it had been?

Perhaps you misunderstood, deliberately or otherwise. Either way, it'sstill not good to put words on people's mouths.

It's not "been dismissed". It was heard in the court and the court made their decision. That ruling was unfavourable to South Africa and favourable to Israel.
Bobko
30 Jan 2024 #141
Russia can be wrong many times and survive. Israel needs to be wrong only once to cease to exist.

This is precisely why, Israel is playing a dangerous game.

The best way for Israel to continue on as a state, is - as we Russians say - to be quieter than water, lower than grass.

Their past victories in war, are no guarantee of future success. Rather the opposite. Their invasion of Southern Lebanon, recently, was a disaster, and they came away with a bloody nose and humiliated. From this, many observers drew the conclusion that Israel is not the same, and has lost some of its mojo.

The West is no longer the same, as you can see through the massive pro-Palestinian protests. It's not simply Evangelicals driving the Israel agenda in America anymore.

Perhaps most importantly, Iran is not Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, or Syria. More than that, Iran has become exponentially stronger over the past decade.

Ukraine is the largest country in Europe. Israel is a tiny pimple on the map. Ukraine can take a lot of punishment from missiles, and can afford to have entire cities leveled with the ground. There are still hundreds of thousands of square kilometers to which they can retreat. What does Israel do if it gets allocated a nice 200-300 ballistic missiles? Then 10/7 will seem like child's play.
Bratwurst Boy
30 Jan 2024 #142
Israel is a tiny pimple on the map

....and still alive and kicking arab ass! Even disguised as women...

Hats off to them!!!
jon357
30 Jan 2024 #143
kicking arab ass

It's not about that; in fact a significant number of Israelis are Arab.

It's about defending their lives.

Thinking about some of the pro 'Palestinian' demonstrations, I wonder if Russia's malign hand is behind any of that. It is after all their modus operandi...
Bobko
30 Jan 2024 #144
wonder if Russia's malign hand is behind any of that. It is after all their modus operandi...

Jon, you sweet Cold War child...

Did Russia take a sh*t in your pants as well?
jon357
30 Jan 2024 #145
Cold War

Well, it's a long time since the Cold War though not long at all since russia attempted to interfere in elections in several democratic countries, funded far right and far left groups across Europe and elsewhere to cause instability and of course carried out a chemical weapons attack in the U.K.

And a fair few other things too. I did wonder if it's significant that the Carl Beech scandal in the U.K, a manufactures and fraudulent cause celebre, something that almost undermined trust in political and military figures was entirely conducted by a very dodgy online newspaper whose owner was an oligarch who'd made his fortune in russia.
Alien
30 Jan 2024 #146
Why exactly does Bobko, who supports Russia in the war with Ukraine, support the Palestinians in the case of Palestine's war with Israel, and Novi, who also supports Russia in the war with Ukraine, supports Israel in the war with the Palestinians. Someone is very inconsistent here.
Bobko
30 Jan 2024 #147
very dodgy online newspaper whose owner was an oligarch who'd made his fortune in russia.

Are you calling The Independent or The Evening Standard a "dodgy online newspaper"?

Also, they are not owned by Lebedev Sr, but his son Evgeny - who David Cameron made a Baron. So that's Baron Lebedev to you.

Going back to our sanctions discussion - did you know there are 5 times as many companies created by Russians in Britain, as there are companies created by British nationals in Russia?

One such company is Wheely, one of the few promising startups in communist Britain. Its major investors are Pavel Durov (founder of Telegram) and Yuri Milner (one of the first investors into Facebook).

Very few countries poured as much money into your island as Russia. The gratitude we receive for this, is simply stupendous.
jon357
30 Jan 2024 #148
Are you calling The Independent or The Evening Standard a "dodgy online newspaper

You're trying to deflect.

The website that was behind it from start to finish was neither of those.

And Lebedev is nothing to me; hopefully he'll be booted back to Siberia after the election.

The gratitude we receive for this, is simply stupendous.

As no doubt are their profits. Nobody forced them to invest in businesses in the U.K. just as nobody forced russia to commit its atrocities.

5 times as many companies created by Russians in Britain, as there are companies created by British nationals in Russia

Because the U.K. is more than 5 times more stable and less than 5 times as corrupt.
Bobko
30 Jan 2024 #149
The website that was behind it from start to finish was neither of those.

I never heard of what preceded it. The first media asset bought by Lebedev, which I was aware of, was The Independent. It positively amazed me at how even-handed the Anglos are, selling a treasured paper like that to a former KGB spy that worked under diplomatic cover at the Soviet embassy in London.

When they ennobled his son, I was simply floored. Money really does decide everything in Britain.







jon357
30 Jan 2024 #150
Lebedev

It's nothing to do with that perfumed ponce Lebedev. It's a different website.

treasured paper

It isn't one. It's not particular long running and has always had a low circulation. It doesn't even have a print edition anymore, has hardly any staff and is barely readable online due to adverts whereas all the other broadsheets have a paywall.

I was simply floored

Everybody was. He must have done the disgraced tories some sort of secret favour. As. I say, hopefully he'll be booted back to the sewer he came from after the election.


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