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75 Years of Israel and the War - part 2


Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #421
@Mr Grunwald
Not really sure what you are trying to say.

The exceptionalism claimed by the US and Israel drives a horse and cart through the nonsense of a rules based order they like to pretend they live by. By their actions they have demonstrated that they believe that might is right.

Zionism is an evil ideology that has nothing to do with being Jewish.

How is it moral that some American, Russian or Ukrainian can go and live on the coast but someone born there cannot. Palestinians have a right to resist occupation, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Palestinian representatives in the PLO accepted the two state solution and as a result Israel backed Hamas, funded further land theft and ethnic cleansing and gave the green light to death squads.

We are now in a position where objecting to the murder of children is described as antisemitism.

Its no coincidence that those supporting the racist and religious fundamentalists that comprise the leaders of Zionism would also have supported the German attempt to eradicate European Jewry.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,666
2 May 2024 #422
Palestinians have a right to resist occupation, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

They want to destroy Israel....that's all they want!

Otherwise they would have build something already.....peacefully, supported by millions coming in year after year from all these international organizations, not at least Germany.

They are not interested in building something for themselves...they want to destroy Israel and kill the Jews! That's all what there is.
Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #423
@Bratwurst Boy
And Israel and their backers are trying to destroy the Palestinian nation in a vain attempt to wash away their guilt.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,666
2 May 2024 #424
And Israel and their backers are trying to destroy the Palestinian nation

If Israel wanted they could and would have already....

And most of the support comes from said "backers" like the US and Germany!

Peace is possible....Jordan is in it's majority palestinian and still they manage peaceful and even normal friendly relationships with Israel. What's the difference you ask? I tell you...no terrorists leading the people, no Hamas anywhere!
Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #425
@Bratwurst Boy
They have destroyed the Palestinian nation.

Their enablers have demonstrated that they believe might is right. Germany can support those they tried to eradicate in a pathetic attempt to assuage their "guilt", The US will use their puppet in a larger game. Either way both have demonstrated that playing nice gets you nowhere.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,666
2 May 2024 #426
Either way both have demonstrated that playing nice gets you nowhere.

But massacres will!

Let's see and wait......
pawian 223 | 24,567
2 May 2024 #427
All in all, the massive support of Am students for Palestinian cause certainly is shattering news to genocidal Israeli gov lovers. They can`t contain their hystery over the matter.
Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #429
@Bratwurst Boy
Well we are watching genocide unfold so clearly Israel and its primary backers the US and Germany believe that massacres work.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,666
2 May 2024 #430
....na ja.....lets wait and see....my bet is on Israel, they don't depend on anybody else, strong army and all....the Pali backers usually have only a big mouth and rather close their wallets and borders if they are needed, so....

Nobody of the blue haired idiot students would go to Gaza and try to help there in place....Hamas would have their fun with them!
Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #431
Pali backers usually have only a big mouth and rather close their wallets and borders

You mean the despotic dictators installed by the democracy loving "west"?
Ironside 51 | 12,438
2 May 2024 #432
Israel, they don't depend on anybody else

lol! In that case, they should divert 16 billion us dollars they receive from the US gov annually to Poland, we could use it better, at least we would use it to kill some civilians and massacre children.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,666
2 May 2024 #433
Washington would gripe again why that isn't a european matter, why should the US chip in again....after all Poland can expect another 137 Billion Euro EU funds soon.

I only hope a new german gov will rethink all the support funds for the Arabs which only Hamas uses....we should stop that!
Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #434
german gov will rethink all the support funds for the Arabs which only Hamas uses

Really, Germany funds Hamas?
I cant wait to see the evidence for this.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,666
2 May 2024 #435
Germany funds Hamas?

Hamas rules Gaza....they even hid under the hospitals, build tunnels, like the cowards they are....they even got the UNRWA idiots to work for them....I doubt one cent of all the international help got anywhere they don't know or want!
Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #436
UNRWA idiots to work for them

The same people the Israeli state vetted? You may not be familiar with the recent independent report stating that Israel has not provided any evidence for their allegations.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,666
2 May 2024 #437
Well....these anti-jewish schoolbooks teached by fully veiled teacher must have been an international hallucination then....oooookaaaaaay!

Yeah...we better stop supporting that soon!
Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #438
@Bratwurst Boy
You are really clutching at straws here. I asked for evidence that Germany was funding Hamas as you stated, all you have produced is an anecdote that an Arab woman was wearing a veil and school books were anti Jewish.

Israel wants to destroy UNWRA for political purposes because they reminds Israel of the original sin of its creation.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,666
2 May 2024 #439
...na ja...your reasoning is quite fantastic too....so! :)

Better we leave it here....we won't decide this war on PF!

*takes helmet*
Barney 16 | 1,636
2 May 2024 #440
@Bratwurst Boy
we wont considering that Bibi himself is trying to scupper any potential ceasefire deal to have Israeli hostages released.

*waves at helmet*
AntV 5 | 650
2 May 2024 #441
Palestinian representatives in the PLO accepted the two state solution and as a result Israel backed Hamas

This is simply not true. Arafat refused to accept the two-state solution because he wanted full Palestinian rights if return and property, which, in essence, would have undone the state of Israel. Yehud Barak made significant concessions, it was Arafat who wasn't willing to concede.

Arafat was consistent throughout his life with his aim to topple the state of Israel.

You may agree with that aim and think it morally justifiable, but to say the PLO accepted the two-state solution is wrong.

complaisant by nature

Complaisant? Please, anything but complaisant-that makes me want to vomit. How about civil?
OP Novichok 4 | 7,984
2 May 2024 #442
his aim to topple the state of Israel.

You don't negotiate with those who want you dead. You kill them.
Mr. N, ignore the moron in the WH and do what you have to. If you want to apologize later, I am OK with that...
AntV 5 | 650
2 May 2024 #443
are those Palestinians in the West Bank where there is no trace of Hamas.

No trace? They may not be as active in the West Bank as they are in Gaza, but they are active in the West Bank. Hell, they even have an official West Bank chapter.

Did a quick duckduckgo search to find an article to prove I'm not dreaming this up-notice article was written 9 months before October 7.

reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-sees-west-bank-battleground-with-new-israel-govt-2023-01-18/

You don't negotiate with those who want you dead

Agreed.
Bobko 25 | 1,935
2 May 2024 #444
Germany was funding Hamas as you stated, all you have produced is an anecdote that an Arab woman was wearing a veil and school books were anti Jewish.

Thanks to a new draft law just passed by the House, Israel will be the first country in US history to benefit from forbidden speech.

You can criticize America all day, but soon it will be illegal to criticize Israel. That is, if the Senate passes it too.

Quote from WashPost article:

If it does become law, the federal definition of antisemitism, adopted from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, would include such speech as "claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor"; "applying double standards" to Israel that are "not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation"; and "drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis."

Further:

The idea is that student-held signs, for example, like those displayed at Columbia University in New York this week, calling for "revolution" or "intifada" - which means "uprising" - would amount to antisemitism under the law. The Education Department, in turn, could then revoke federal research grants and other funding to a university that fails to take punitive action toward students who express such views, the bill's proponents say.

Source: washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/05/01/antisemitism-awarness-act-campus-protests/

My God, just how do they do it? The so called "Russian lobby" really needs to take a few lessons from the Israeli lobby, on how to get things done in DC.

On a more serious note, I fail to see how this will help the situation with surging antisemitism in the United States. If anything, this'll fire it up to a qualitatively new level - at least if Twitter is anything to go by. People are not exactly... pleased.
AntV 5 | 650
2 May 2024 #445
@Bobko

Talk about a gross overreaction and overreach!! Lunacy. I hope the Senate tosses it.
Bobko 25 | 1,935
2 May 2024 #446
Talk about a gross overreaction and overreach!

Feeding right into the tinfoil-hat-wearing crowd's fears about the Jews controlling everything.

Some prominent Jews from the city, like Jerry Nadler (12th district) and Bill Ackman (hedge fund billionaire) have come out against this law. These are two guys that have been pretty vocal in their criticism of the campus protests these past few months... yet they still see how this measure can backfire.

-----

On a different track... I somewhat sympathize with Jewish-Americans due to the conundrum they find themselves in. They can argue that they've tried to be meek and acquiescent - and it didn't work - and when they try to be assertive - it also backfires.

In the city where I live, New York, you can see this every day. We have more Jewish people than Tel Aviv, and Jewish people disproportionately control the city government, businesses, arts, etc.

After Oct. 7th, they plastered the entire city (literally every light post) with the "Kidnapped" posters, sent trucks with huge screens driving around the city blasting the names of the hostages, rented huge billboards on Times Square, and staged what was obviously fake demonstrations in front of the UN. Most non-Jewish people in the city were a bit bewildered at what we were expected to do to free those hostages.

In the event, this kind of "full court press" pretty much immediately alienated a large part of the non-Jewish majority.

On a sort of peasant-logic level, I think this is why pro-Palestinian marches attract 100X the amount of people that pro-Israeli ones do in NYC. It really doesn't seem like Jewish people need any help in getting their voice heard, while people always naturally gravitate to the underdog.

Now my Jewish friends sometimes complain that they feel suddenly unsafe in the city, and I really have to restrain myself from sharing my hypothesis :).

This is New York, and nobody likes being told what to do or what to think - even if it's the right thing.
Alien 21 | 5,156
2 May 2024 #447
@Bobko

The so called "Russian lobby" really needs to take a few lessons from the Israeli lobby, on how to get things done in DC.

What does the Italian mafia think about this?
Bobko 25 | 1,935
2 May 2024 #448
What does the Italian mafia think about this?

Not sure I understand?

Are you saying that the Italian government manipulates the political process in America through use of organized crime?
Alien 21 | 5,156
2 May 2024 #449
use of organized crime?

The Italian mafia does not have political ambitions, unlike the Russian or Israeli-Jewish ones. But this is only because Italy is calm, unlike Russia or Israel.
Bobko 25 | 1,935
2 May 2024 #450
The Italian mafia does not have political ambitions

Very confused.

In America, anyone can lobby the government to do whatever they want, so long as they register as a foreign agent and make it clear to everyone who they represent. It's a whole industry, and Israel is widely recognized as the master in this game.

Their Prime Minister routinely comes and gives addresses to the US Congress - sometimes without permission from the White House. He gives speeches at political gatherings, like CPAC. In fact, he can outright challenge the President of the United States, as has happened plenty of times during the Obama and Biden admins.

You don't need organized crime, or illicit money flows. If you have the money, you can go and completely legally buy the voice of any Congressman or Senator you like.

People in America have spent several years talking about Russian influence, and I'm just complaining that we look very inept indeed in comparison to Israel.


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