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Does Gavrilo Princip deserve monument in Poland?


Crow 139 | 8,148
26 Mar 2020 #1
Let us talk.

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Gavrilo Princip, man who initiated chain reaction of events that led to independence of Poland

I do believe that Poland and Poles owe monument to Gavrilo Princip. If not for him, Poland would still be ruled by foreigners and Poles maybe wouldn`t even exist or would face brink of extinction in near total assimilation.

I also thinks that Poland`s experiment with EU even more proving point of Gavrilo Princip. Independent Polish state is must.
mafketis 23 | 8,523
26 Mar 2020 #2
No. Next question?
OP Crow 139 | 8,148
26 Mar 2020 #3
Why no? Because its politically correct to say no by some standards and interests?

Poland got its independence. So, I say he deserve monument.
mafketis 23 | 8,523
26 Mar 2020 #4
Why no?

Because he was a filthy murderer...
jon357 63 | 15,045
26 Mar 2020 #5
Do Gavrilo Princip deserve monument in Poland?

No, he doesn't.
Joker 1 | 1,454
26 Mar 2020 #6
Because he was a filthy murderer..

Thats why Crow wants to glorify him.. He is a war monger full of hate and wants to turn Poland into Serbia.
mafketis 23 | 8,523
26 Mar 2020 #7
wants to turn Poland into Serbia

A pariah state and shadow of its former self.... Serbian nationalism is the stupidest nationalism in Europe, even worse than Catalan nationalism (which is just dumb, not murderous)
Provessive Pole
26 Mar 2020 #8
How about a giant statue to the Congress Poland, Płońsk-born David Ben-Gurion?

Oh, sure, sure, some have inconveniently pointed out his involvement or tacit approval in what today would be classified as war crimes:

haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-gideon-levy-ben-gurion-s-dark-side-1.5270977

But so what?!

At least this is tempered with him being quoted as saying "People...tell me, and it's my view as well, that until a Jewish soldier is hanged for murdering Arabs, these acts of murder won't end."

haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ben-gurion-only-death-penalty-will-stop-soldiers-from-murdering-arabs-1.5425600

So, hey, there's enough there to deflect criticism.

And he was also known to be happy to take money from American Jews as long as they kept their schnozes out of Israeli politics and society. Just like that smug, ignorant and hypocritical generation currently residing in Poland who never minded visiting the States (even on several occasions) but are always quick to sneer at it and Polonia living there.

I'm thinking a statue taller than Christ the King in Świebodzin would be appropriate. No expense should be spared and it can all be paid for out of the current Government-funded teacher salaries and the pensions going toward PRL-era denizens so that they can atone for their anti-Zionism during the 1960s.

Who's with me?
OP Crow 139 | 8,148
26 Mar 2020 #9
Because he was a filthy murderer...

Murderer? Archduke was highest possible symbol, perpetrator and representative of truly tyrannic occupational force. It was legitimate to kill him by local patriot. Quite simple.
mafketis 23 | 8,523
26 Mar 2020 #10
Murderer?

Yep.

It was legitimate to kill him by local patriot

Nope.
Atch 17 | 3,231
26 Mar 2020 #11
He is a war monger full of hate

Now to be fair, Crow isn't full of hate. He likes other Slavs and anybody who'll agree to acknowledge that they're really Serbian even though they're actually Norwegian or German or Spanish or...........seriously though, Crow is not a particularly hateful person. He's just very passionate and firey in his form of patriotism and he has no problem with blood being shed for what he believes to be legitimate and morally correct ends. He definitely doesn't like the Brits but on the other hand when he comes across an individual Brit that he can't help admiring or liking, he'll find an excuse for liking them by claiming they have Serbian origins :))

As for Gavrilo Princip, his actions simply gave the major powers the excuse they needed to go to war. He didn't start the war - THEY did. And his actions, within the context of the history of the times, are understandable.
Spike31 3 | 1,719
26 Mar 2020 #12
Because he was a filthy murderer...

No he wasn't. You have to also look at things from their perspective.

Austro-Hungarian rule was enforced on Balkans and its population. Prince Ferdinant was in fact a tyrant to those people. Gawrilo was a politically motivated nationalist freedom fighter who killed their oppressor.

Was the assasination of SS General Franz Kutschera, an SS and police leader in occupied Warsaw, by Polish Resistance in 1944 an act of murder?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Kutschera
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
26 Mar 2020 #13
even worse than Catalan nationalism

I'm learning Catalan, and what strikes me most of all about Catalan nationalism is that it's a reaction to the odd system of devolution in Spain. The obvious answer (fiscal devolution, just as in the Basque Country and Navarre seems to be unacceptable to the Spanish central government, and so you've got a situation where the Catalan government can rightfully protest.

Returning to the 2006 Statute of Autonomy and giving them the same fiscal powers as the Basque Country and Navarre would almost certainly reduce support for independence in Catalonia.
Provessive Pole
26 Mar 2020 #14
Yanks and Limeys are never, ever, in a position to lecture anyone about anything.

Show me a "morally superior" Anglophone and I'll show you a blathering two-faced idiot:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_United_States_War_Crimes

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_war_crimes
mafketis 23 | 8,523
26 Mar 2020 #15
what strikes me most of all about Catalan nationalism is that it's a reaction to the odd system of devolution in Spain

What strikes me (when you look past the surface and can read Spanish) is how much it's led by grifters... behind the slogans they want to stick their snouts directly into the EU troughs (while mismanaging local budgets to keep the locals up in arms about the thieves in Madrid)....

No doubt some are sincere, but overall it's a good example of what might be called entrepreneurial nationalism (stirring up nationalist feelings to enrich a leadership)...
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 164
26 Mar 2020 #16
Gavrilo Princip is a hero of his people.

His gunshots initiated a chain of events which sent into oblivion and consigned to the dustbin of history this unnatural abomination called the Habsburg Monarchy.

1

Overall, the Empire had a population of nearly 52 million people, who spoke the following languages (percentage shows most commonly used everyday language):

German: 23.36%
Hungarian: 19.57%
Czech: 12.54%
Serbo-Croatian: 10.94%
Polish: 9.68%
Ruthenian (Ukrainian): 7.78%
Romanian: 6.27%
Slovak: 3.83%
Slovene: 2.44%
Italian: 1.50%
Other: 2.09%

It's not normal for someone speaking German to rule over Bosnia where nobody does.

brilliantmaps.com/united-states-austria/

youtu.be/3Fu12pYR30I

One of the reasons Adolf Hitler had an admiration for Serbs and wanted them on his side in WWII is because they helped to destroy this Frankenstein state.

Americans who have no knowledge whatsoever about the region should refrain from commenting on this thread, otherwise it makes them just appear silly.
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Mar 2020 #17
Because he was a filthy murderer...

Hear, hear.

this unnatural abomination called the Habsburg Monarchy

What??? What did you call the Last True Catholic Monarchy in Europe? The only foreign country of which a Pole was the Prime Minister? The country in which Polish education, culture and traditions could thrive, while Prussians and Russians were doing everything to destroy every trace of Polishness?

As a faithful Kaiser und König loyalist, and great-grandson of a k.u.k Uhlan, I have only one thing to say to you, you filthy Serbian swine...



STAND TO ATTENTION FOR DAS KAISERLIED!!!

youtu.be/3p39ulIfnzc
Joker 1 | 1,454
26 Mar 2020 #18
He definitely doesn't like the Brits bu

I highly doubt any Brit really cares what Crow thinks. lol

Serbian nationalism is the stupidest nationalism in Europe,

It doesnt make any sense to rational people, they come across as being barbaric to Westerners, with good reason.

One of the reasons Adolf Hitler had an admiration for Serbs

Barbarians in Love, how sweet:)
Tacitus 2 | 1,011
26 Mar 2020 #19
Crow is not a particularly hateful person.

Tell that to the people of Srebenica on whose memory he constantly spits on.
Spike31 3 | 1,719
26 Mar 2020 #20
One of the reasons Adolf Hitler had an admiration for Serbs

Such an admiration from a mass murderer doesn't bring you any glory. And vice versa: admiration for A. Hitler is nothing to be proud of and only weak minds are attracted to his rhetorics.
Provessive Pole
26 Mar 2020 #21
Serbian nationalism is the stupidest nationalism in Europe, even worse than Catalan nationalism (which is just dumb, not murderous)

Hear, hear baby boomer Yank!

And congrats on turning a blind eye to Bill Clinton-backed Albanian nationalism! You know where KLA terrorists trafficked POWs into Albania, murdered them, and harvested their organs for sale on the internal black market:

newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-organ-trafficking-conviction-in-kosovo

But oh yeah, draft-dodging, drug-taking, *****-mongering, baby boomer Clinton was "right-on" with his new world order politics. So lets not talk about that! LOL!

Yep, you keep on lecturing that wily Serb! Woo hoo!
OP Crow 139 | 8,148
26 Mar 2020 #22
What??? What did you call the Last True Catholic Monarchy in Europe?

Pardon. Vatican officially was against A-H attack on Serbia. Officially. Pope did told to Hamburgs it is mistake. But no, they had to.

The only foreign country of which a Pole was the Prime Minister?

A Prime Minister that is foreigner to Poles, you mean, Pane?
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Mar 2020 #23
Vatican officially was against A-H attack on Serbia. Officially.

Bollox.

"The pope continually incited Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria-Hungary to eliminate the Serbs. After the events of Sarajevo, Baron Ritter, the Bavarian representative in the Vatican, wrote to his government: "The pope approves of Austria's harsh treatment of Serbia. He has no great opinion of the armies of Russia and France in the event of a war against Germany. The cardinal secretary of state [Rafael Merry del Val] did not see when Austria could make war if she does not decide to do so now.""

Read some history, Crow.

A Prime Minister that is foreigner to Poles, you mean, Pane?

Look, we had this conversation before, many years ago, hadn't we? And we managed to establish that the Austro-Hungarian Empire was the greatest country in Earth's history (followed closely by The First Rzeczpospolita). Let's stick to that. Keep it real.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 164
26 Mar 2020 #24
new world order

Serbian Posters Blame Jews for NATO Bombing
israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/166659#.UVg1XCRV3cd

Well... most of the people pushing for and responsible for the 1999 war against Serbia were Jews... Madeleine Albright, Wesley Clark, William Cohen, George Soros, Joe Lieberman, James Rubin, etc.

jew

And this guy. May he rot in hell.

Hands off Yugoslavia! - Dr. William Pierce 1999
dailymotion.com/video/x2yxdnc

Madeleine Albright - Bent on attacking 2-21-1999

youtu.be/eo1jJkIfWbc

theatheistconservative.com/2011/02/25/a-womans-war
Provessive Pole
26 Mar 2020 #25
Well... most of the people pushing for and responsible for the 1999 war against Serbia were Jews...

Of course, they wanted to project onto Serbia what Israel has been guilty of for decades. They always want to keep the focus off Israel's crimes and when the can't then they'll exaggerate, lie, give one-sided stores, and do whatever else it takes to try and make someone else look disproportionately worse.

And they do it because they know there is a generation of Zionist stooges out there who will bark and clap on command like trained seals in a circus at the sight of their virtue signaling.

They are only pro-muslim in Europe and America. These Zionists would never dare criticize Israel for its war crimes, crimes against humanity, and apartheid treatment of its muslim neighbors and own muslim citizens.

To be certain, you will never see a muslim prime minister or president in the "Jewish" state of Israel but these Zionists can't wait for them to pop up everywhere else in the West.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 164
27 Mar 2020 #26
Serbian nationalism

youtu.be/uFH8lwX7eT4

Beogradski sindikat & Etno grupa "Trag" - Next Year in Prizren
(English/Polish/Russian/German subs)
mafketis 23 | 8,523
27 Mar 2020 #27
keep on lecturing that wily Serb!

Thanks for the great suggestion! Will do!
pawian 171 | 12,081
27 Mar 2020 #28
I do believe that Poland and Poles owe monument to Gavrilo Princip.

I have nothing against. Make sure it won`t be erected in Less Poland region, in Krakow or around, though. People living there still remember The Habsburgs` dynasty and Austrian partition with nostalgy, as sth positive. So, it should be Warsaw or Wrocław.

How about a giant statue to the Congress Poland, Płońsk-born David Ben-Gurion?

It is so good of it to mention that great man. He deserves at least 50 monuments in different cities in Poland.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
27 Mar 2020 #29
No doubt some are sincere, but overall it's a good example of what might be called entrepreneurial nationalism

Yes, for sure, the people connected with JxCat are very much a business elite who only really embraced the independence movement when it suited them, although it's interesting that in the last Catalan election, they deliberately chose to go with people connected with Puigdemont and independents rather than time-served politicians. But what I find interesting is the rise of the ERC, especially as they were the ones that facilitated Sanchez's nomination. They're much more committed to (wider) Catalan nationalism than JxCat, yet they wisely returned Sanchez to power. The question for me is what Sanchez can give them - anything less than what was on offer in 2006 is clearly unacceptable, yet keeping Sanchez in power for nothing (while Catalan leaders sit in jail) is unacceptable too.

What strikes me about Catalan nationalism is just how much hatred comes from supporters of Vox and the PP - they don't seem to understand that making all these threats towards Catalans is doing nothing but pushing people away from them. It was the same mistake that the Serbs made in 1990/1, after all.

I don't think the issue of Catalan nationalism is going to go away anytime soon, particularly with the second generation now growing up with Catalan as the language of education. One option right now would be to allow the independence vote, as a moderate Sanchez government has a good chance of winning.
Torq 32 | 2,897
27 Mar 2020 #30
People living there still remember The Habsburgs` dynasty and Austrian partition with nostalgy

Hear, hear!



♥ ♥ ♥

So, it should be Warsaw or Wrocław.

I doubt Breslauers would want to have any such abomination in their beautiful city. Just make sure it's not anywhere near Gdańsk, or I will raze it myself.


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