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Does Gavrilo Princip deserve monument in Poland?


pawian 178 | 15,928
27 Mar 2020 #31
Just make sure it's not anywhere near Gdańsk, or I will raze it myself.

But Torq, think for a while. Technically, Crow is right.

If not for him, Poland would still be ruled by foreigners and Poles maybe wouldn`t even exist .

Besides, what is the difference between killing a Habsburg royal by a Bosnian patriot and a Tsarist Russian general by a Polish patriot? The same to me - both victims represented the oppressing regimes.
Torq
27 Mar 2020 #32
But Torq, think for a while. Technically, Crow is right

Crow is never technically right, and certainly not in this case. Poland would be reborn anyway, because it was God's will, and because she had repented for her past sins. We didn't need any help from a murderous Serbian onanist... or was it "nationalist"? Oh, well - not much difference anyway.

The same to me - both victims represented the oppressing regimes.

At first glance it might appear similar, but these are two completely different things: a member of Great Catholic Dynasty murdered by a half-wild onanist, and a Mongol invader killed by a civilised European who was opressed by him. See the difference?
Tacitus 2 | 1,325
27 Mar 2020 #33
victims represented the oppressing regimes.

Franz Ferdinand was by all accounts sympathic towards the minorities of AU, and his reign would have likely seen further decentralization in favour of those minorites. Not to mention that his innocent wife was killed as well.

Besides. considering what followed the Habsburgs on the Balkans, the demise of AU is hardly anything to celebrate. Even one hundred years laters, the damage has not yet been healed.
Torq
27 Mar 2020 #34
Considering what followed (...) the demise of AU is hardly anything to celebrate

Good point. Thank you.
pawian 178 | 15,928
27 Mar 2020 #35
See the difference?

Unfortunately, not. :):)

a member of Great Catholic Dynasty

This Great Catholic dynasty contributed greatly to the partitions of another Great Catholic nation. During several rebellions, they murdered or provoked killing of a lot of Poles. You probably forgot 1846 - Krakow Rising and Rabacja. What about the Spring of Nations? Bem fought against Austrians in insurgent Hungary. He was a hero who tried to liberate our friends from the south.

the demise of AU is hardly anything to celebrate.

The problem is that you focus on the Balkans while Austrians also controlled other areas. If an average Slovak or Czech read your words now, they would be really pisssed off. :):)

Sorry, you can`t eat a cake and have it. Either Austrians lose and all oppressed nations are free or they don`t lose and the oppression continues. Which do you choose? Quick decision .:):):)

Good point. Thank you.

Nope. :):)
Torq
27 Mar 2020 #36
This Catholic dynasty contributed greatly to the partitions of Poland.

I really wouldn't say "greatly". Prussia was the main culprit, followed closely by Russia. Austria took part in two partitions only, out of necessity really, and it's a good thing they did. Polish culture, education and language survived also thanks to Austrian tolerant politics towards minorities (can you imagine a Pole being a Prime Minister of Prussia? a good joke). Poland couldn't have been saved back then (mostly because of our own stupidity), so I'm glad part of our country was under Habsburg wings, not under Prussian or Mongol rule.

You probably forgot 1846 - Rabacja.

Rabacja wouldn't happen if the peasants weren't treated as cattle (or worse).

Bem fought against Austrians in insurgent Hungary.

Poles were often on Hungarian side (and vice versa), nothing strange here.

If an average Slovak or Czech read your words now, they would be really pisssed off. :):)

I doubt it, there are a lot of Czechs and Slovaks among Kaiser und König loyalists.

the oppression continues

What oppression? The Habsburg Empire was an early version of European Union (only better, because it was Catholic, as opposed to the godless EU), house to many nations and languages. If you want to talk about oppression - look at Prussian and Mongol partitions.
pawian 178 | 15,928
27 Mar 2020 #37
Austria took part in two partitions only,

I like that only. :):)

so I'm glad part of our country was under Habsburg wings, not under Prussian or Mongol rule.

That could be quite a good idea, I admit. :) If not this:

Rabacja wouldn't happen if the peasants weren't treated as cattle (or worse).

Yes, but now we aren`t talking about peasants but Austrians who could stop Rabacja easily (and they eventually did) but prefered to close and eye and pay peasant murderers 5 shillings for each Polish szlachta`s head. See the pic below.

I doubt it, there are a lot of Czechs and Slovaks among Kaiser und König loyalists.

Just like Poles who admire strong Russia and her even stronger leader, Putin. Dirk is one of them.
What does it change? Does it mean Russians or Austrians weren`t oppressors? :)

What oppression?

Yes, I know, after 120 years things are idealised. :):))





Tacitus 2 | 1,325
27 Mar 2020 #38
. If an average Slovak or Czech read your words now, they would be really pisssed off. :):)

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Particulary the Slovaks seem to have a rather fond view of AU, which considering their further history, is not all too surpring. Even in the Czech Republic there is now a growing appreciation of the many Czech people who played a crucial role in AU's history, like Field marshal Radetzky.

In any case, I usually defend AU - like in this case - against the defamation of certain lunatics from the Balkans, so I usually focus my view on this area. And it can not be doubted that the AU played overall a beneficial role in this area of Europe.
Torq
27 Mar 2020 #39
Yes, but now we aren`t talking about peasants but Austrians who could stop Rabacja easily

Austrians acted as a hand that guided God's scourge (peasants) to punish Polish szlachta for their pride, idiocy (which also led to the fall of Poland several decades earlier), and cruelty to hardworking chłopi. Luckily after the Spring of Nations peasants' situation improved greatly.

Yes, I know, after 120 years things are idealised.

Even if there is a grain of truth in that, it doesn't change the fact that the fall of Austro-Hungary was one of the greatest tragedies in Europe's history. World War 2 and Holocaust wouldn't have happened, if the Habsburg Empire had survived WW1. Kaiser Karl would never have allowed that.

And it can not be doubted that the AU played overall a beneficial role in this area of Europe.

It cannot be doubted at all. As I said, the precursor of the European Union, the last true Catholic monarchy of Europe, and a dream empire of halcyon past... listen...

... listen, Pawian... can you hear it? Can you hear the drumming of k.u.k Uhlan horses' hooves? Can you hear Radetzky-Marsch playing in the distance? Can you hear quiet prayers coming from Die Kapuzinergruft?

Nostagia, you say...



... and you're damn right.
pawian 178 | 15,928
27 Mar 2020 #40
Austrians acted as a hand that guided God's scourge (peasants) to punish Polish szlachta for their pride, idiocy

But Russians played the same role, coz practically all Risings against Tsarist Russia were run by szlachta. Yet you call them barbaric Mongols. :):)

the fall of Austro-Hungary was one of the greatest tragedies in Europe's history

I never thought in these terms because I read the Adventures of Good Soldier Szwejk. hahaha

Can you hear Radetzky-Marsch

Yes, I know it and like its melody, indeed.

Nostagia, you say...... and you're damn right.

But it never worked on me. :) Austrians weren`t as oppressive as Germans or Russians, but they still persecuted independent movements and Polish patriots.
That is why, I don`t regret the fall of their Empire and never have.
OP Crow 150 | 9,443
27 Mar 2020 #41
Gdansk would be fine and appropriate. With look on Baltic (Serbian) sea. Young Serbian student from Bosnia who sacrificed himself for freedom of Serbs and all Slavs. And all true Europeans, after all.
Torq
28 Mar 2020 #42
were run by szlachta

Who else should run them? We are talking about 18th/19th century here. However, both Kosciuszko Insurrection and January Uprising saw all social strata participating in them.

Yet you call them barbaric Mongols.

No hidden meaning or ulterior motive here. Just calling a spade a spade.

Adventures of Good Soldier Szwejk

Better read Joseph Roth's "Radetzky March" and "The Emperor's Tomb" instead.

Gdansk would be fine and appropriate.

The abomination wouldn't last a week here. People in Gdańsk are far too decent to tolerate any such thing.
OP Crow 150 | 9,443
28 Mar 2020 #43
In Gdansk? Among Kashubs? Among Serbs? He. Hardly won`t last. On monument would be written that Gavrilo was Serbian. People would venerate site as holly place. Actually anywhere in Poland.

Don`t exaggerate, please.

Anyway, Ferdinand wasn`t just a tyrant but, as he himself admitted killed nearly 300.000 various animals. He was unique kind of maniac.

But Torq, think for a while. Technically, Crow is right.

Yes I am right. Its obvious but Torq behave like fanatic. Imagine what would happen to him and his family if wasn`t for Gavrilo. Torq and likes of him would be proud Germans. Now, its not that being German isn`t nice. Its not same as being leprosy, after all.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 155
28 Mar 2020 #44
youtu.be/JAwarI4jFPo

Serbia: Statue of Gavrilo Princip unveiled in Belgrade

"Naše će sjene lutati po Beču, hodati po dvoru, plašiti gospodu."
"Our shadows shall wander Vienna, walk through the palace, frighten the gents."

Gavrilo Princip

youtu.be/8khNWgOhik0

Bosnia and Herzegovina: Gavrilo Princip statue unveiled in East Sarajevo

A great injustice was corrected, even though the communists banned it for decades, they could not stop it and only delayed the inevitable - it finally happened.
Torq
28 Mar 2020 #45
Torq and likes of him would be proud Germans

Austrians!

This thread is too full of nationalists and Serbian lunatics for my liking. Good bye, gentlemen.

Żegnam ozięble.

*leaves the thread and slams the door behind him*
pawian 178 | 15,928
28 Mar 2020 #46
*leaves the thread

Come on, don`t do it. Thus you will corroborate Crow`s words about you:

Its obvious but Torq behave like fanatic.

hahaha
Ironside 50 | 11,295
28 Mar 2020 #47
that Gavrilo was Serbian. People would venerate site as holly place.

Do you really want to propagate an assassin or a terrorist as a Serbian hero? It doesn't put Serbians in a good light.
As for Gavrilo in Poland - 70% wouldn't know who is it. The rest wouldn't know why he should have a monument at all and particularly in Poland. Serbian label wouldn't make any difference.
Velund 1 | 476
28 Mar 2020 #48
Serbian nationalism is the stupidest nationalism in Europe, even worse than Catalan nationalism

I would understand this sentence from someone else, but not from Polish guy. ;) Try to ask your neighbours (any of them) how polish nationalism is looking from the side.
pawian 178 | 15,928
28 Mar 2020 #49
Do you really want to propagate an assassin or a terrorist ?

Really?
Check this out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Organization_of_the_Polish_Socialist_Party
Józef Piłsudski, the founder and leader of assassins, terrorists and robbers. Today venerated in Poland, with thousands of plaques and monuments.
What is the fekking difference? The only difference I see is that Princip is foreign while Piłsudski is native Polish.

All in all, you are silly with this hypocrisy of yours.

As for Gavrilo in Poland - 70% wouldn't know who is it.

That is a very good result. BTW, where did you take this figure from? Did it occur to you in your dream? You should consult a better Sennik to interpret your dreams. hahahaha
mafketis 29 | 9,546
28 Mar 2020 #50
I would understand this sentence from someone else, but not from Polish guy

I'm not Polish (though I live in Poland)
Velund 1 | 476
28 Mar 2020 #51
Now I got it. The most authoritative opinion about the taste of Polish chicken soup is the opinion of a dumpling floating in a plate. ;)

What is the fekking difference?

What Pilsudsky did is working to legitimize the current ruling elite and gives it additional political weight. And those who gave their lives, having laid the foundation for the processes that led to the next spasm of Polish statehood, are insignificant slag.
jon357 67 | 16,923
28 Mar 2020 #52
Józef Piłsudski

A wonderful person and a true inernationalist; his speeches are very worth reading.
Velund 1 | 476
28 Mar 2020 #53
How about this one?

Naród wspaniały, tylko ludzie kurwy.

Źródło: Myśli i wypsknięcia, wyd. MG, Warszawa 2010, s. 41.
jon357 67 | 16,923
28 Mar 2020 #54
An excellent quote, and very true.
Ironside 50 | 11,295
28 Mar 2020 #55
Try to ask your neighbours

Lets ask Russia neighbors how Russian delusions look to them.

Really?

Really! You are not that bright aren't you? I know that you don't need to advertise it.
pawian 178 | 15,928
28 Mar 2020 #56
hahaha In another thread you stupidly played a fool and in pretencious astonishment, asked about your defeats with me. Now it is just another one, darling - put it down in your diary. :):)

Why don`t you admit you don`t know what to reply when I said there is no difference between Piłsudski and Princip? Aren`t you able to admit it? Where is your fekking manhood? You are a loser, both mental and moral. hahaha
OP Crow 150 | 9,443
28 Mar 2020 #57
Żegnam ozięble.

Pierdolze na tebe

Austrians!

Shame yourself
mafketis 29 | 9,546
28 Mar 2020 #58
Pierdolze na tebe

Have a sense of decency for once, you old gen0c1dal maniac..... Serbia's in trouble, tend to your own problems first!
OP Crow 150 | 9,443
29 Mar 2020 #59
Serbia and Serbs are always in trouble. That is destine of us who are stubborn Serbs and refuse not to be Serbs. Troublemakers are those genocidal maniacs in Rome. And their Greek kin apprentices aren`t far. And all their multitude servants.

But Serbs shall win. All can sit and stab themselves on our penises.
Joker 2 | 1,781
29 Mar 2020 #60
More words of wisdom from the village idiot! LOL


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