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Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia


convex 20 | 3,978
12 Apr 2010 #211
assassinated Polish leadership

The only real long term political impact is the loss of military leadership. No important members of the functional government were aboard.
Crow 139 | 8,588
12 Apr 2010 #212
as you wish but, go ask Poles on the streets how they understand this situation. Poles suffer because they feel that SYMBOL of Poland died with crush of that plane
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Apr 2010 #213
I expect the truth, Crow. This is not the time for paranoia about sinister forces who couldn't have done anything from a Smolensk forest anyway.

Unless you present a credible case, Crow, the position is clear. No outside forces were involved.

freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2491061/posts
this is a bit out there but does ask some pertinent questions. Leave no stone unturned when seeking out the truth.

I hope Russia isn't acting out of guilt. Any foul play on their part and there will be disastrous consequences for them. I can't see it, though.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Apr 2010 #214
They didn't dump fuel though.
Rafal - | 25
12 Apr 2010 #215
Crash was the best thing could happend to Kaczynski.
1. No chance for second election in autumn.
2. Now he will be the best known of Polish presidents.
3. Everyne in the world knows now what Katyn is. ("Katyn" movie of Wajda was played sonday evening on 1st channel of russian TV)

4. Russia is closer than ever (in modern history) to Poland. All of them people and politicians.
...
5. A few years ago was similiar situation - conflict Kaczynski vs. captain of the plane (he did not respect Kaczynski`s order to land in bad weather conditions and had problems later).

...
6. Normally Kaczynski would be former president... now he will be national hero...
Georgianboy - | 1
12 Apr 2010 #216
Dear Polish People,

Declaring deepest condolences to Poland and very brave Polish nation!
RIP President Lech Kaczynski! He was great President and great person!

Georgia mourns with freedom lover Polish people! We will never forget you and your help in war against Russian Evil Empire! President Lech Kaczyinski was one of the great persons of contemporary politics, for whom, true values of mankind: freedoom, justice and equality standing above the all! Take my great and simply undepictable respect from all my heart and soul! Polish people lost their President and Georgian people lost their close friend!

I remember those terrible days when brutal Russian Empire attacked us with full power, bombing civilians, demolish buildings, burning forests and so on - trying to occupy and destroy our country and your President risked his life and came down in Tbilisi, Georgia during the war, while Russian warplanes flying over Tbilisi, and came to openly support our country, our people, our freedom and independence... it was enormous help and support!

May loveful Polish soil be light for you...

Georgian people prepared spacial tribute, photos and videos are taken close to Polish Embassy in Tbilisi, Georgia where people brought flowers and burning candles...

Giorgi
Tbilisi, Georgia
Crow 139 | 8,588
12 Apr 2010 #217
Unless you present a credible case, Crow, the position is clear. No outside forces were involved.

i am sure that if sabotage of plane happened, professionals were in charge and paid well, whoever wanted that plane down and whatever reason may be. So, i don`t expect credible evidences to be found. Simple, Russian investigation must announce that WEATHER was reason.

We all would then have to agree that WEATHER was reason and, life goes on. Life goes on, without few people
richasis 1 | 420
12 Apr 2010 #218
i am sure that if sabotage of plane happened

Again, IF this was the case, I would look West as much as East.

I have this feeling that Russia was the target, too

Ditto. It will be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out.
Smell the ashes
12 Apr 2010 #219
The polish people must be insanely naive to believe the lies coming in from Russia (where Putin is former KGB); you just had your president, top military and security officials, and National bank president killed in a short plane trip with a plane equipped with top grade equipment and still think it was an accident? The plane was being checked 3 months before in Russia. Quite possibly a remote control device was installed, as in the 9/11 attacks and other similar plane crash. Search the facts, look in the motives, there is plenty of them.

Are you going to believe what propaganda mainstream media tell you about the black box. They are all owned by the same companies which have huge investment in NATURAL GAS, OIL, NUCLEAR ENERGY, PHARMACEUTICAL and MILITARY. Curiously, all things that made your headlines last month... RESEARCH.

If so I can't believe your stupidity and you sadly deserve what is coming to you from the world financial elites.
If you fail to realize you where directly attacked, then there is no word up to the task of describing how a bunch of happy idiots you are.
richasis 1 | 420
12 Apr 2010 #220
Again, IF this was the case, I would look West as much as East.

if you wait for that IF then you are naive

Maybe so. But I would still look West as soon as East.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
12 Apr 2010 #221
Smell the ashes

You do realize what you are saying? If it becomes at all apparent that there was foul play in all this, it might well start off WW3...

Poland would not let this go unpunished, even if it means total annihalation... I will personally take out my old uniform and take up guerrila tactics in case of invasion.
richasis 1 | 420
12 Apr 2010 #222
Is it me, or am I seeing a whole lot of 'foul play' and 'Russia' in the same breath?

As for the 'KGB' - remember, the CIA was made from the same cloth as the KGB.
Velund 1 | 398
12 Apr 2010 #223
Maybe just because Smolensk-South (ICAO: LNX) is a defunct small airport that was built for light planes for a regional flights. In 2008 it was planned to reconstruct this airport sometime in 2011 by lenhtening landing strip, building some additional facilities and installing modern navigation equipment.

To date, all flights to Smolensk is landed at Smolensk-North airstrip.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
12 Apr 2010 #224
5. A few years ago was similiar situation - conflict Kaczynski vs. captain of the plane (he did not respect Kaczynski`s order to land in bad weather conditions and had problems later).

I read a suggestion to the contrary. That pilot received some a silver medal from Bogdan Klich, the minister of national defense. The medal was presented to the pilot for "following of procedures and for his sense of responsibility for the four presidents on board of the plane" (presidents of Estonia, Latvia Lithuania and Poland)
Moderator
12 Apr 2010 #225
You can not just simply assume weather was the case. The fog was in fact thick, but not thick enough for the pilot to not see the landing area. Jumping to conclusions and saying the weather was the cause is a very simple-minded solution. Time will tell what really happened, whether the weather was in fact the only thing involved. I don't believe simple weather caused the death of the President of Poland, his wife, and top officials on Russian soil.
from Russia
12 Apr 2010 #226
For me it is shame to read all in this page...
Yes, may be Smolensk airport isn't good for big plans, yes, may be fog wasn't thick (although even at the TV I could see fog). But...why polish pilot made 4!!! circus!!! Why he didn't go to Vitebsk? Because Ceremonial in Katin already was began and President very often wanted to land quicklier. Before going to Smolensk pilots didn't know about Smolensk airport? If they know, why they didn't refuse to go to Smolensk before starting?

Why all!!! official persones came to one!!! plane? Putin did it? Putin told that plane land namely in Smolensk? You think Putin in so crasy to kill so many people. For what? Tell me, please, why Putin wants to kill not just President but so many official people. Putin wants to begin 3 WW? It is more than funny.

It is really shame. Russia spend now too much money for getting people from Poland. It would be better if these money goes to chilren homes and hospitals for examples. In Russia there are some words-"Don't make good and don't take evil". Yes, not first time I see how is true...
Marek11111 9 | 816
12 Apr 2010 #227
look people polish pilots ware at fault.
president died we get new one, people die every day
no one live is more important then the other live.
DannyJ - | 129
12 Apr 2010 #228
It's called poor visibility and bad planning.

And having a President who thought he could Pilot a plane
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Apr 2010 #229
Maybe, maybe not. The news is now that there was a single approach attempted, with the crew telling ATC that they would divert if they couldn't put it down. There is some speculation that it might be a QNH/QFE problem, which would just be incredibly sad. I figure the GPWS would have been screaming at them that they were too low, but who knows. I guess the CVR and the flight data will let us know.
DannyJ - | 129
12 Apr 2010 #230
I guess the CVR and the flight data will let us know.

He,s got a history of thinking he,s a pilot by what i,ve been reading,, also I said to the miss 1 hour after it happening that I recon he was pushing the plane to land as not to loose face by not turning up.

I,ve seen in Poland the boss is the boss even if he knows f**k all about what he,s talking about.

R.I.P the other poor soles on the plane
peterweg 37 | 2,321
12 Apr 2010 #231
They didn't dump fuel though.

You cannot dump fuel on a 154M. Or on a 737 or 320 for that matter. There is no point on short haul aircraft. You burn it off by circling.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Apr 2010 #232
You cannot dump fuels on a 154M.

Thus the comment.

Really curious to see the report. It looks like thy crashed on their first approach.

It is strange that they were doing an approach from the east when the winds were also out of the east. Trying to figure that one out.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
12 Apr 2010 #233
thank god we have you on the board to keep things in perspective.
Romek75
12 Apr 2010 #234
As a French living in Poland, I wanted to bring my full support to Polish ppl for this tragic event ; the French community is quite big here in Warsaw and everyone feels concerned. Good luck guys.
Stan
12 Apr 2010 #235
I would bet that Kaczynski forced the pilot to land the plane despite early warnings.
polishmeknob 5 | 155
12 Apr 2010 #236
Here's all I've written about it (with pictures):

polishmeknob.blogspot.com/2010/04/plane-crash.html
polishmeknob.blogspot.com/2010/04/plane-crash-after-effects-first-few.html
polishmeknob.blogspot.com/2010/04/plane-crash-after-effects-results.html
Stan
12 Apr 2010 #237
Have you seen the latest news? I wonder if KGB shoot down his plane. Maybe Putin is preparing himself to the invasion of Poland.

Don't make me laugh, Russia wouldn't invade Poland and the plane is down only due to Kaczynski's stupid order to the pilot.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Apr 2010 #238
the plane is down only due to Kaczynski's stupid order to the pilot.

Do you know something we don't?
Stan
12 Apr 2010 #239
Just simple logic, no experienced pilot would land the plane in such difficult circumstances. This tragic attempt to land was definitely maid on the order from the highest in command. He was in a hurry.
Velund 1 | 398
12 Apr 2010 #240
Do you know something we don't?

Don't think so. Just browse last news. There was short note on a news tape that investigators have no information yet that there was any "pressure" to pilot from their VIP passengers.


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