Years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons

That sounds rather accurate...

̓Εὰν ὦσι δύο εὐθεῖαι, τμηθῇ δὲ ἡ ἑτέρα αὐτῶν εἰς ὁσα δηποτοῦν τμήματα, τὸ περιεχόμενον ὀρθογώνιον ὑπὸ τῶν δύο εὐθειῶν ἴσον ἐστὶ τοῖς ὑπό τε τῆς ἀτμήτου καὶ ἑκάστου τῶν τμημάτων περιεχομένοις ὀρθογωνίοις.

... doesn't it? And guess what - it comes from a third century BC document. :) The Westminster Confession of Faith is the most accurate expression of true Christian faith in existence, and the fact that it comes from the 17th century is irrelevant.

Even further back. And 'sin' is still a construct for those who hold specific beliefs. For those who don't, as a concept it is an irrelevance.

Not everything is a "construct".... a lot of things that seem, on the surface, like constructs are probably hard-wired into our DNA... (and/or the result of evolutionary fitness or the lack thereof).

'Sin' certainly is, and as a concept it should never be the basis for legislation.


This is a deeper question. Easy to confuse 'sin' with guilt. Traditionalists like Guenon talk about ageless truth, and there are certainly evolutionary aspects to humanity that lie at the heart of our species' behaviour however what we feel guilty or not about seems deeper than anything codified by clerics.


If that caldera blows, the world will be a very different place. Hard to know how it affects Poland's place in the EU except for the fact that the environmental effects would be so huge that an international effort would be required to mitigate them. There's a very good speculative fiction book from Sealion Press (if you haven't heard of them, they're worth a look; I think you'd like some of their stuff) called The Twilight's Last Gleaming.

sealionpress.co.uk/post/new-paperback-the-twilight-s-last-gleaming

Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not kill,

shouldn't be subject to legislation?


wrong thread.... I'd repost it there but the mods get very testy about these things so it'll have to remain here....

But should they be defined as 'sin' or as damage limitation/maintaining order?


I did wonder. This thread has gone in all directions anyway.

Have a look at the Sealion Press website. Actually not so far off topic since quite a few of their works touch on both the EU and Poland. They're mostly British, however two American ones I enjoyed are "CSA all the way!" and "Bearfish".

Here's a question entirely on topic (and related to the books from that publisher too): what would be happening now if Poland had voted against joining the EU?

But then legalizing revenge murders (parts of feuds) or honor murders as "limiting damage" or "maintaining order".... china justifies a lot of its atrocities as 'maintaining order'...

I agree that religions should not be the ultimate arbiter of legislation but it does have a role. I'm not a believer but once you look into it, it does appear that humans are hard-wired for something like religion* and taking that into account should probably occur in creating legislation....

*It's a tricky balancing act, too much religion in a society leads to backwardness and stagnation while not enough leads to nihilism and dissipation

There was an interesting study about monks of different religions praying/meditating. clergy (likewise of different religions) celebrating liturgy and also Masons taking part in ceremonies, all wired up to analyse brainwaves. There was significant cerebral activity which appeared to be unique to ritualised actions.


This is the key. Forcing issues (as PiS do in Poland and aggressively atheistic regimes have done elsewhere) seems a fundamental distortion and invites/encourages a reaction against that..

Really?? Check the poll results from 20 years ago and compare to latest ones - do you see any difference? If you say you can`t, you are a liar. HA!

Here you are:
oko.press/co-o-polskiej-homofobii-mowi-nowy-sondaz-ipsos

more and more Poles are getting used to the topic of equal rights for non-heteronormative minorities. Some argue that the source of moral panic, which until now has been homophobia for populists, has simply dried up.

You know that you can`t stop it. Hence your ridiculous hysteria and useless attacks on the EU.

What do you mean 20 years ago? You claimed that 14 months is like prehistory in this regard. :)


The survey I posted was about legal rights for homosexual couples - one of the LGBT movement's aims; yours is about tolerance toward homosexuality itself. Not the same thing: a lot of those who said that they tolerate homosexual orientation would still be against granting such people the right to adoption.


The only person being hysterical here is you: all your "hahahahas", "madafakas", "come outs", "eliminate PiS like rabid dogs" etc. and so on make you look like a total retard. A hysterical retard at that. If you were 16 your behaviour could possible be justified but you are probably closer to 60 which makes it just sad.

If the EU insists on pushing their pro-LGBT agenda, then the countries who still regained a bit of sanity will have to consider their options. Or maybe we will just have to wait until the '68 generation dies out (should be soon enough) and conservative politicians take over - it is already starting to happen.

A very good point, yes history works in cycles, and the children of those parents, who are dragged to drag queen story town will be conservative as ****.

To see how your deeply ingrained societal attitudes have changed over years. :):) The change is considerable but you prefer to ignore it. Amasing!


Darling, stop twisting now. Your own words were: if you take a look at surveys about LGBT ideology, It is LGBT and the changing attitude to it that we are talking about. You mentioned one poll, while I another. Simple.


Your ritard options of joining RuSSia and BlelaruSS?? Why do you hate Poland so much??? :):):)

You mean the West. While in Poland the trend is reversed - from the current insane ritard rule to liberal one which is going to hold power for a decade or two. After that, sane cons might even replace them, I have nothing against coz we need balance of nature.


Yes, you personally are like a rabid dog, coz you support murdering thousands of Polish POWs by Soviets in Katyń Massacre and others during WW2. Stop acting as such anwful antiPolish scum so I won`t call you a rabid dog.

I never said any such thing. You, on the other hand, wrote that PiS has to be eliminated like rabid dogs - it's there for everyone to see, so you call to murder Poles for their political views. You are the greatest scumbag this forum has ever seen, a tiny spiteful man - spewing his frustration online. The scariest part is that you're a teacher - a teacher calling for politically motivated mass killings. What a scum.


I don't care what you call me - your behaviour on this board reflects only who you are.

You said you find posts praising Soviet murders of Polish POWs in Katyń interesting. Only antiPolish scum can acknowledge such a view. Why do you hate Poland so much???

And this is the worst part.

Insulting people, being a hysterical retard, acting like you're 16 when you're 60 etc. etc. is one thing, but wanting to murder Poles for their political views is too much even for a rabid troll and hater like you. You should be ashamed of yourself but apparently you don't even grasp the concept of shame. From now on you will be treated like a Stalinist mass murderer wannabe that you are.

Darling, I am not pushing anything. I am only trying to make you aware that cultural changes in deeply ingrained societal attitudes have been taking place in Poland despite ritard resistance coz we are in Europe and Poles just love imitating European ways. That is why your rejection of and blaming the EU is stupid and useless - the changes will continue anyway while Poland out of the EU becomes a poor unimportant country.


I see you adopted the role of Goebbels now. Amasing! :):)

We don't have to imitate European ways - we are European par excellence, the heart of Europe; and anyway, Europe has already started turning conservative, so there.


I don't think so. Amiga500 is right - the only result of pushing people too far will be a healthy reaction of turning even more conservative.


I'm not nearly as good at it as you are. :)

Yes, but with a huge dose of Eastern European mentality which can be perfectly seen in people who support PiS and other ritards.


Hmm, you mean Italy?? One swallow doesn`t make the summer yet. :):):)


Don`t be so modest - you are doing quite well. :):):)

Looks like you've misunderstood that case. He was actually suspended for chasing after the school's Headmistress, haranguing her and physically threatening her. He has had to be removed physically from the school premises on several occasions after his suspension and was jailed because he poses a physical threat to the Headmistress and others.

He isn't English either, Enoch Burke is Irish and worked at a private school.

Nor is he a typical teacher. He is one of the Burke family of Castlebar, Ireland's equivalent of Fred Phelps and the 'Westboro Baptist Church' who, day in day out, spend their time waving placards and hassling people in the street. They are frequent flyers in the courtroom and have a history of turning up at and interrupting church services.

In Poland, they would certainly be either locked up or sent to a mental hospital. Or both.

Not a good example of any sort of martyr to conscience but a very good example indeed of lunatic extremists inflaming a complex situation.
independent.ie/irish-news/meet-the-burkes-suspended-teacher-enoch-burke-hails-from-a-controversial-family-of-evangelical-christians-41952551.html

Yes indeed he is. And he's in jail not for his views but for contempt of court ie. defying a court order to stay away from the school. He could go home any time if he purged his contempt which he refuses to do. The law is the law and a court order has to be complied with. The judge in the most recent hearing generously offered to allow him out of jail during the upcoming school holidays, as the school would obviously be closed, so that he could spend Christmas at home with his family and Burke refused. So his 'suffering' is self-imposed.

An update on the above. In a rather hilarious turn of events, they've turfed him out of jail for Christmas, whether he wants to go or not.

Mr Justice O'Moore of the Irish High Court said it was "intolerable" that taxpayers were paying Mr Burke's salary as well as the costs of his incarceration in Mountjoy Prison and it was difficult to avoid the conclusion that Mr Burke was exploiting his imprisonment for his own ends.

This would explain, the judge said, why he resisted an early trial which could have set him free and why he rejected the proposal of the high court that could have led to his immediate release.

He said the only plausible interpretation of Mr Burke's actions was that he saw some advantage in his continuing imprisonment.

Otherwise, the judge said, he would have avoided it, or taken the opportunity to bring it to an end.

The court, he said would not enable someone found in contempt of court to garner some advantage from that defiance.

He said because of this Mr Burke's release should be open ended and not just for Christmas.

The title of the thread lost 15 at the beginning. Amasing!!! :):):) I started the thread in 2019 to commemorate the 15th anniversary of Poland in the EU.


Conservative is still normal. However, , breaking the law and Constitution and robbing the state of its assets in such a cheeky way as PiS are doing is certainly East European style.


I said it last October. Nothing has changed - the EU is still blocking the funds coz PiS refuses to cancel their deforms of the judiciary.

Good. During the election campaign, the opposition will claim they are going to unblock the funds as soon as possible. Millions of Poles are waiting.

Down with corrupt PiS!

Well, it'll be 20 soon.

Yes, exactly. 20 beautiful years, despite the constant barking and whining of those rabid antiEuropean dogs.

Amasing hypocrisy of rightist PiS. Their Euro Parliament members don`t want to return to Poland and run for Polish parliament. Which is quite understandable coz in the EU they receive much higher salaries.

However,. they regularly lash at the EU and refuse to follow its rule of law standards. They stop it when the pay day is coming.

Cheeky hypocritical bastards.

Hey, eurosceptics, also called antiEuropean azholes.

Poland needs to be in the EU coz it binds us with the West. If Russia doesn`t fall apart in result of the lost war and sanctions, we will be constantly threatened in the east. If Americans choose such an azhole for President as Trump or another, then NATO might stop functioning. What is Poland left with then?? With its own bare ass coz if we aren`t in the EU, Western Europe won`t lift a finger to help us in need. Why? Thanks to PIS which has turned this country into Eastern European shythole according to old stereotypes. The French or Brits won`t die for Gdańsk or Warsaw coz in their minds Eastern Europe won`t be worth it. Only Germans will try to give a hand as our closest neighbours but they don`t possess nukes so it won`t matter.

The cultural changes in Western Europe which you are so afraid of will be adopted by Poles sooner or later, so resisting them is useless. We can already see how Poles are changing their attitude - this process is unstoppable.

Anybody who doesn`t understand that it is Polish vital interest to remain in the EU is an idiot, moron, azhole, traitor and mental loser. Fekk you all. I can say it freely and still remain Christian because stupidity is a sin. Ha!!!

Pawianos, pawianos, pawianos... you are like a rabid dog in the fog. So confused, so angry, so clueless...

The changes you mention are neither irresistible nor unstoppable. They are predictable and laughable; we have known about them for a very long time. Our Lady has warned us repeatedly and prepared us for them. You cannot win, as it is God Himself, the Sovereign Almighty Lord, that you are up against.

It is Our Lord Jesus Christ, the triumphant Lion of Judah, Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria consistens, whose anger you are bringing upon yourselves.

I was taken aback by the Pope's stance on the SMO. I didn't understand it at first. But I prayed, and I talked to people more experienced and wiser than me. Then it all became evident.

youtu.be/F-udChzZl3E

Pray to Our Immaculate Lady, Pawian, to Beatissima Mariae Virginis, the Holy Theotokos... maybe there is still hope for you.

Indeed. Ursula Gertrud von der Leyen and Guy Maurice Marie Louise Verhofstadt gonna save you instead of the NATO. HA! :D