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15 years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons


OP pawian 197 | 19,827
27 Jul 2022 #931
I'm saying that that poll is not that reliable.

Is proPiS CBOS institute not reliable to you? :):)
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
22 Aug 2022 #932
PiS politicians blame the EU, especially Germany, for everything, cleverly forgetting that their own rabid rightard policies led to the European embargo on pandemic funds for Poland.

One of those most radical rightards said:
It is Germans who are responsible for the lack of KPO funds in Poland. Mrs. von der Leyen is and has always been an important German politician. She deliberately conned the Polish prime minister and president.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
24 Aug 2022 #933
is Germans who are responsible for the lack of KPO funds in Poland.

Well, they are right, the EU is Germany proxy.
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
24 Aug 2022 #934
the EU is Germany proxy.

So it is a blessing that Germans are so obsessed with the rule of law in Poland and they won`t allow PiS gangsters to turn the Polish judiciary into some RuSSist circus where judges rule like their masters order them.

God, thank you for Poland in the EU together with Germany!
Vater unser, who are in Heaven, hallowed be deine Name..........
Miloslaw 14 | 4,482
24 Aug 2022 #935
Yes, that is why half the world wants to come here and have their dreams fulfilled.

Not true.
They want to come to the UK, which is not in the EU.
1,300 crossed the channel illegally yesterday.....

Poland was, is and will be in the EU

But only as long as it lasts.
Poland may never leave the EU, but the EU may cease to exist.
As things stand, that is no longer very far fetched.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
25 Aug 2022 #936
So it is a blessing that Germans are so obsessed

Yeah sure, move to Germany.
mafketis 35 | 11,188
25 Aug 2022 #937
Germans are so obsessed with the rule of law in Poland

Too bad they don't worry so much about it at home....

twitter.com/minna_alander/status/1561634385572597760

ecfr.eu/article/germanys-corruption-scandals-how-to-limit-authoritarian-influence-in-the-eu/?amp

twitter.com/Uliana_IN/status/1562325455797194752
Tacitus 2 | 1,618
25 Aug 2022 #938
I think we can all agree that there is some difference between some individuals trying to cash in on their political relations and the ruling party trying to get control over the judiciary.

Which is why Germany has rules that prevent what PiS is currently trying. That there is further need to fight corruption (something all countries struggle with) is unrelated to this.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
25 Aug 2022 #939
hich is why Germany has rules that prevent what PiS is currently trying.

lol! such as?
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
25 Aug 2022 #940
individuals trying to cash in on their political relations and the ruling party trying to get control over the judiciary.

Yes, substantial difference. Individual corruption will never be completely eradicated coz people are fallible.
However, if a ruling party wants to corrupt a judiciary system in a democratic country, it is a serious breach of European law which has to be punished. And thank God the EU is doing it. No funds for PiS!! The next government will get them all. hahahahahaha.

Yeah sure, move to Germany.

I don`t need to. I still strongly believe those rightards will be removed from power one day and they will pay for everything what they have stolen or corrupted. I want to see it with my own eyes to tell you all about cleaning the PiS Swamp in Poland.
Kashub1410 5 | 467
25 Aug 2022 #941
@pawian
Your nuts if you think the judiciary isn't corrupt from before. It's connections and ties aren't excactly well looked upon.

Imagine the judiciary class in Germany still being filled with Ex-NSDAP members to this very day and their kids and closest kin and friends.

Reading a dude defending them with every means necessary.

That's the impression I am having right now
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
25 Aug 2022 #942
Kashub
Corrupting the judiciary by PiS means intimidating or removing independent judges and replacing them with PiS nominees who rule as their masters order them. PiS is doing it to avoid being charged with theft or embezzlement. Also in other cases like accidents they have caused. The case of the infamous accident caused by the driver of a certain important PiS politician hasn`t been closed till today after 5 years. The PiS controlled attorneys lose or damage the evidence and generally do their best to protect PiS.

That is why you are mad if you think I will accept what rightards are trying to do. The judiciary needs reforms but certainly not by antidemocratic corrupt PiS gangsters.

If Poland wasn`t in the EU, we would already have a judiciary system like in communist times.
Tacitus 2 | 1,618
25 Aug 2022 #943
such as?

The government can not appoint judges with a simple majority.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
25 Aug 2022 #944
But they can apoint politicians as high court judges. In Poland they need to be judges to be apointed.
If that is a simple majorit or not is just a fine point of the issue. There is no palce for a foregin country to meddle in our system.

There is lost of undemocrating issues with the system in Germany. Should we decaler war on you unless you fix it as we see fit?

I get German politicians, I don't get why there is popular support amoungs the public for such political war on Poland.
Why is that? Do you want a war or something?

funds for PiS!! T

Traitors need to hang no form govermants. That clear!

cleaning the PiS Swamp in Poland.

Poland need to be cleaned from traitors, mafia and retards. That includes PO and people like you. Better move when you have a chance!
Kashub1410 5 | 467
25 Aug 2022 #945
@pawian
If I have a choice between ex-solidarity members who fought commies and actual commies, I'll support the ex solidarity members every time! Sue me!

I am not in a situation to afford lofty ideals and judiciary principles from a thinker from over 200 years ago.

They play dirty cause their opponents play dirty. Which is something the west is very naive about or very one-sided.
Tacitus 2 | 1,618
25 Aug 2022 #946
If that is a simple majorit or not is just a fine point of the issue.

No, it is a key issue. It means that a government can stack the judiciary with hardline judges who may even support their ambition to undermine the democracy.

Whereas in Germany the government has to negotiate with the opposition, the jduges are sufficiently vetted and not all judges owe their office and loyalty to a specific party.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
25 Aug 2022 #947
No, it is a key issue

Whether or not that it is the key ( it depends on the way all other institusions work and on the system) issue, it is for US to decide, it is for US to fix or not, in other words that is our issue and our pride or problem and it has nothing to do with YOU.

What is the real problem it is YOUR proclivity to meddle into OUR affairs!
Right now the EU has no legal justfication for its war against Poland!
Germany not only support Russia de facto but also wage war on Poland stabbing us in the back while we support refugees and Ukrainian war efford. Thank you for being such a great ally and a friend.

We make sure to pay you back!
PiS govermant is pushover and want to say in the EU at all cost! That is the only reason the EU and Berlin can get away with their hostile policies.

owe their office and loyalty to a specific party

It deosn't make them to be on their beck and call. Gerstdorf was nomined by PiS and came on the top as a one that started illigal rebelion against that party.
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
25 Aug 2022 #948
What is the real problem it is YOUR proclivity to meddle into OUR affairs!

No, it is not a problem, darling. Or it is only for 35% population who support different rightards. The rest sees it as a blessing. HA!!!

wage war on Poland stabbing us in the back

Darling, tell it to ruling rightards to behave themselves and nobody will poke them, let alone stab.
Tacitus 2 | 1,618
25 Aug 2022 #949
Right now the EU has no legal justfication for its war against Poland!

Untrue. When Poland joined the EU, it signed up to common rules including the rule of law. If the ECJ rules against PiS, it has to follow the decision.

This is not about Germany vs Poland but the EU against PiS.

Of course, it is also in Germanys' interest to safeguard its' neighbour and partner against sliding into authoritanism. We already have a huge problem with Hungary that not only has ramifications for its' people, but the EU as a whole.

support Russia de facto

Sanctions, phasing out its' fossil fuels sooner than is economically sensible, sending huge military and financial aid to its' opponents now counts as support?

while we support refugees and Ukrainian war efford.

As do we.

We make sure to pay you back!

Personally, I'd be happy if instead of actively paying us back, your government could just let go of long resolved past grievances and drop its' use of anti-German propaganda for domestic reasons.
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
25 Aug 2022 #950
This is not about Germany vs Poland but the EU against PiS.

Exactly. But those rightards from PiS and nationalists like Cojest never lose a chance to blame Germany for everything.

This is not about Germany vs Poland but the EU against PiS.

Exactly. But those rightards from PiS and nationalists like Cojest never lose a chance to blame Germany for everything.

drop its' use of anti-German propaganda

Which is sick and harmful, indeed. If RuSSists attacked Poland, all those PiS rightards would escape to Berlin on the first day.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
25 Aug 2022 #951
HA!!!

Traitor in action. See how overactive he is. Trying to curry favor with your German master, liking it boots.
Do you think they like and respect you? Nobody respect traitors even those to whom you are usefull.
Yuck! Can you be less obvious with your ass licking?

This is not about Germany vs Poland but the EU against PiS.

Ha ha very funny. We know that there is no legal justfiction for the last actions of the EU. If you don't know that you better check it out. It is illigal what Germany via its EU proxy is doing.

anti-German propaganda for domestic reasons.

Shouldn't your govermant give a good example first? Plus there is not war on Germany there is Germnay war on Poland.
Tacitus]We already have a huge problem with Hungary[/quote]
As Europe has a big problem with Germany acting out!
By the way Germany and help to Ukrianie - a good joke - you talk a lot but your accula help is symbolic ..
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
25 Aug 2022 #952
Traitor in action.

Said an ex emigrant loser who had prefered to live in the USA for 30 years and came back to Poland last year when the ashes of communism were already cleaned up.

you talk a lot but your accula help is symbolic ..

Actually, you are lying like a biased nationalist now. Stop spreading this RuSSist propaganda -we all know that your party idols love Putin and all things RuSSist.
Tacitus 2 | 1,618
25 Aug 2022 #953
Shouldn't your govermant give a good example first?

Berlin is not asking for reparations for former German territories or stirring up past resentments.

It is illigal

The ECJ has so far backed Bruessels.

but your accula help is symbolic

Taking in the 2nd largest group of Ukrainian refugees and being 3rd in overall support counts as "symbolical"?
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
25 Aug 2022 #954
ashes of communism were already cleaned up.

As I can see by your exmplae maybe ashes has been cleaned but all communist sh't hasn't been cleaned up at all.

Berlin is not asking for reparations for former German territories

Not yet. I wouldn't put it pass them. As to resentments, your past resentments are a joke compared to Polish.
Insead you create a new ones. For exmample presenting left-center PiS as almost Nazis. lol!
Not to mention using your EU proxy to undercut Poland by political means as you can't do it in a fair competition.
There is aslo a fact that you bascally didn't pay war reparations to Poland. Sure you don't like it. Tough, just talking about it is not a crime.

being 3rd in overall support

By whose count? Germany?
Tacitus 2 | 1,618
25 Aug 2022 #955
presenting left-center PiS as almost Nazis

Who said they were like the Nazis? For that they would have to commit a genocide and attack their neighbours. PiS does however behave suspiciously like other governments that turned their countries into autocracies.

just talking about it is not a crime.

Who said it was? It does however cause needless bad blood between two neighbours without any benefit except some points in the polls for PiS. It is incredibly stupid to poison people with senseless resentment.

By whose count?

ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
25 Aug 2022 #956
Who said they were like the Nazis?

German press, suggesting it - nationalistische - in Germany it has its conotations.

behave suspiciously like other governments that turned their countries into autocracies.

Who made Germany an arbiter or a guardian of Poland? If you want to be one you should pay up first what you own like in the war reperations.

My take is that Gemany deosn't care about all that and this is only pretex to interfer into those counries they think should be their vasal or colony, at the very last to follow its orders.

I guess traitors in Poland give you that impression they they have big support behind them. they don't!

ifw-kiel.

By German count ofcourse.
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
25 Aug 2022 #957
nationalistische -

Exactly. . PiS is becoming more and more nazionalistische coz they want to win votes of the most radical rightard voters.

By German count ofcourse.

Of course you are lying.
It is tragic that you are playing into Putin basket right now when you insist on isolating Poland in Europe. You fekking nazionalistische trecherous scum. Such traitors like you once contributed to partitions and a loss of independence by Poland.

No more.
Tacitus 2 | 1,618
25 Aug 2022 #958
By German count ofcourse

By an independent, internationally respected institute. Do you have a better source?

Those aid deliveries are public knowledge. The list of supplied arms and other equipment are published. I don't see how the equipment sent from Germamy would count as "symbolical".

Germany it has its conotations

Nationalismus has negative conotations like it does in other languages, but its' meaning is not any different and people do not automatically connect it to the Nazis, just as people do not link Social Democrats to Nationalsocialism.

Germany an arbiter

The EU Comissiom is the arbiter to which Poland agreed to when it joined the EU.

war reperations

That issue has long been settled. Germany owes Poland reparations the same way France owes the former opponents of Napoleon war reparations.
OP pawian 197 | 19,827
25 Aug 2022 #959
That issue has long been settled.

Yes, but those rightards and nazionalists will never give up that issue coz a group of brainwashed Polish voters enjoys such sick policy.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,357
26 Aug 2022 #960
I guess the best option for Poland would be to leave the EU.


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