Years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons

Define human dignity.

Ah dear, I see that gov and institutions in Brussels already are going against their own chart i.e. they are against European values.

By the way you remember how you were here yapping about certain doctor in Warsaw hospital who was bullied out of his position because he was against abortions'.

You soviets and your BS I knew you know nothing about European values - The right to conscientious objection is recognised - here he was so right. Shame on you commies.


Nope, it is not. There nothing the chart about it. That just something that has been made up. So don't lie about it. EU politicians are yapping about it is not the same,.

Ah and show me chart talking about LGBT.

I'm pretty sure you don't realise that the so called judicial independence is detrimental to societies and Poland is one of the starkest examples of that - but you can always choose to shut your eyes tight and pretend there's nothing wrong

also why on earth is the current Polish model of judiciary not in line with European 'rules'

Playing stupid? hahaha

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignity


Wrong! It wasn`t me - I would never yap about that doctor coz I respect their right to stick to moral values they hold.


I already told you that fascists like you know nothing about European codes and charters.
ejtn.eu/PageFiles/12454/The%20Independence%20of%20Judiciary%20as%20a%20European%20Standard_training%20material.pdf

Asking for you take on it. It meaningless as so called right, as in American pursue of happiness but it could used for political ends. I'm asking you how you define dignity. Is it too difficult for you to formulate your own answer without wiki?

After all you choose to post it as an example! Are you stupid?


no we are clueless, it is a commie like you that is well versed in all of those codes and charters.
I'm only saying that in that charter allegedly presenting all common European values there is nothing about judiciary in Poland. So don't point me to all and sundry of opinions elsewhere - it means nothing.

Just show me a passage from that EVC that says something about Polish judiciary - nothing more nothing less.

You are playing stupid all the time - but let it be if it is your favourite pastime.

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_17_5367

Article 7(1) of the Treaty on European Union provides for the Council, acting by a majority of four fifths of its members, to determine that there is a clear risk of a serious breach by a Member State of the common values referred to in Article 2 of the Treaty (see Annex II). The Commission can trigger this process by a reasoned proposal.

It is up to Poland to identify its own model for its justice system, but it should do so in a way that respects the rule of law; this requires it to safeguard the independence of the judiciary, separation of powers and legal certainty.

imagine, pawian that the judiciary is hostile to you for some reason -you go to court on level one - and the verdict is against your wishes even if the law is misinterpreted against you - you go the the level 2 and it's the same you go say to the Supreme Court and it's the same - are you still sure the judiciary should be independent - you wnat courts to dictate the law? - independent judiciary eventually means the rule of the judges not the people - it's agianst the core of democracy: that's why judges in the United States are elected - they are being held to responsibility before the public

also the creation of new judges in Poland is in the hands of politicians just like in Germany - the Disciplinary Chamber is there to prevent the abuses and outward criminal activities by the judges - the Disciplinary Chamber is not politicians but judges -so how is it not independent?

Nah, I want you to tell me. Not to quote some political BS but where is that RISK (lol) (they don't even say there is a breach but a potential exist there for it to happen, isn't that life anything can happen or not- I digress).

Which values they meant precisely in their referral? All of them? Doesn't make sense! So tell me which one of those values it is?

also pawian who do you think the judges will align themselves if there is no control over them - with the poor or with the rich and mighty

Commies like Pawian.

Hostile to me at all 3 stages??? What is it? Some science fiction story about bad Martian judges and good Eartheners? hahaha


All of them are elected by the ruling party??? Are you sure? You`d better check it out again. :):)


Playing stupid again? Coz they were elected by one single party which rules the country? And are used by this party to harass truly independent judges who go against the party`s expectations?


Your playing stupid is tiring. I said and quoted enough for intelligent people to know what they should know. If it is not enough for you, then it is not my fault.

You mean you don't know. Bravo! You support blindly anyone even against your country just that you can get back at PiS. Oh sorry it is not your country, Go home soviet!

I am at home, expat darling. :):)

No you are not./
Anyway, you don't even know what values and what issues and you don't care. Just be honest once in your life and admit it.

I admit it that discussing things with you is very tiring coz you twist and mix everything up, ask illogical question, reject plausible arguments and demand the same explanations over and over again.

Hmm, what is your job, iron? Do they have a fool-proof system against your mental chaos and the mess it brings about? Or are you already retired?

On the contrary I ask you very simple questions, you only need to answer them truthfully. It is not my fault that you lie. If you are caught you blame it on me. Your misbehavior is very antisocial in its core.

Exactly he won't explain what he means when he talks about "true Poles"

@Michel88


I can't really speak for Western Europe, but migration to Germany is particulary high from Hungary. In 2019 we had 35k migrants from Hungary and e.g. 130k from Poland. Thus in relation to population size, we had more migrants from Hungary than Poland.

de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/157446/umfrage/hauptherkunftslaender-der-zuwanderer-nach-deutschland-2009/


The issue is the rule of law. When Poland joined the EU, it pledged to remain a state in which the rule of law is respected and in which the government would not take undue influence on the judiciary. The justice reform has put this in jeopardy. Even if you believe that the current government won't abuse the power it has given itself, it still opens the door to future transgressions. It is just not a good idea to give a simple majority the power to appoint judges without any compromise, as evidenced right now in the USA.

Everyone should get a turn to level the playing field.
In the U.S.A. the Democrats have been the weighted Party for the last 150 years in the Supreme Court.
All we want is OUR turn at it.

Well there is a simple way to get "your turn" - to consistently elect Republican presidents. Which means policies that voters like and making voters lives easier. In all the discussions about your court there doesn't seem a lot of interest in that.

And the US system is not an example for us to follow here - it has become too politicized and in the US it can still be balanced by other branches of government. Poland's system doesnt have those checks yet

What are you talking about? There has been a conservative majority of 5:4 judges for as long as I can remember. Which just goes to show how broken the US system is, in which a minority can dominate the system.

harass corrupt judges simple as that - how come judge Zurek has about 20 pieces of real estate all around Poland -is he a real estate collector or what?


they are elected by the public in their constituencies

On its own it's no argument. Unless there is a proof of his wrongdoing.

they are elected by the public in their constituencies


let's check his tax return then: would you scream injustice if Inland Revenue got around Zurek

What do you mean?

I mean tax office, sorry

I figured that out. I meant more what measures you have in mind. 'Got around him' is pretty vague:)

Yes. So you understand that comparing it to PiS style on one party election wasn`t appropriate.

Let`s be honest, PiS style is good in Russia or Belarus but not in democratic Europe.

PiS was elected into power by the public - so it's got a pretty strong mandate to choose judges

We will see how you will sing about a strong mandate when the opposition takes power. hahaha

maybe it will, maybe it won't