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Throwing away the constitution in Poland?


delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #151
More importantly, they're also reminding everybody who doesn't support them (i.e. the overwhelming majority of Poles) that it is very important to actually vote.

For what it's worth, there's already several protests planned for next weekend. I've counted three so far, but there's likely to be more.

Pretty incredible for a new European government to attract such opposition after only a few weeks.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
6 Dec 2015 #152
This is a pretty damning report about the new government I must admit:-

LOL ! Who wrote that crap ? My bet is on someone from G(ó)W(no).

there's already several protests planned for next weekend. I've counted three so far

Mmm on different days I guess, as they need to bus that dozen of sidelocks between different locations :)))))))
Ironside 49 | 10,304
6 Dec 2015 #153
LOL ! Who wrote that crap ? My bet is on someone from G(ó)W(no).

Who wrote it?
MOST newspapers and magazines use bylines to identify the journalists who write their articles.

Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
6 Dec 2015 #154
G(ó)W(no).

Maciej Stasiński, a leading pen at Gówniane Wieści, compared Kaczyński to Hitler, a recent Sejm session to the Nazi takeover of the Reischstag and likened Tsar Jarosław the Terrible to a latter-day Ivan. He claimed that this would usher in a period of smuta (sorrow). Those Michnikites must be high on something because even by their skewed standards that is really going overboard.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #155
Mmm on different days I guess, as they need to bus that dozen of sidelocks between different locations :)))))))

All on the 12th at the same time. Try harder, child.

And mods - couldn't we use proper names on here?

G(ó)W(no).

- is just insulting and childish.

Then again, what can we expect from a bunch of people that openly betrayed Poland in the past?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
6 Dec 2015 #156
Maciej Stasiński, a leading pen at Gówniane Wieści, compared Kaczyński to Hitler

While Gesine Schwein, a German politicians claims that:

1. Both German government and individuals should criticize the situation in Poland.
2. All political parties that have different opinion than PiS should be supported (I guess they will finance Nowoczesna like they did with PO)
3. Poland is going back to her fascist traditions :))))))))

wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/niemcy-gesine-schwan-uwaza-ze-pis-sam-rozlozy-sie-na-czesci/m99y99
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
6 Dec 2015 #157
openly betrayed Poland in the past?

Are you referring to the Bermans, Michniks, Fejgins, Brystygiers, Romkowskis, Różańskis and other memebrs of the sidelocks club?
Legal Eagle
6 Dec 2015 #158
Anyone that knows anything about Poland knows that European citizens can vote legally in many Polish elections.

HA HA HA! The EU agreements pertain to elections for the European parliament and municipal elections. See Directive 93/109/EC (on the right of EU citizens to participate in European elections) and Directive 94/80/EC (on the right of EU citizens to participate in municipal elections. However, the EU is not yet a federalized state, and foreigners, (like the three clowns,) have no right to vote in Polish national elections, and this dispute is about a dispute between the President of Poland, both houses of its legislature, and a handful of opposition judges on a politicized court trying to get three more of their party members on the court after it lost an election. Foreigners protesting in an attempt to create a false perception that they are Polish citizens whose opinion on the issue matters, should be exposed by Polish media. It demonstrates an attempt at foreign manipulation of the domestic political process.
jon357 63 | 15,214
6 Dec 2015 #159
eferring to the Bermans, Michniks, Fejgins, Brystygiers, Romkowskis, Różańskis and other memebrs of the sidelocks club?

Sidelocks?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #160
Foreigners protesting in an attempt to create a false perception that they are Polish citizens whose opinion on the issue matters, should be exposed by Polish media.

Problem is, you're forgetting that some of us already have Polish citizenship.

Try harder.
Legal Eagle
6 Dec 2015 #161
Some of us already have it because we were born with it. Others are delusional wannabes who would need to renounce another citizenship to acquire Polish citizenship, and thus be able to vote in Polish national elections. HA HA HA!
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #162
There's no obligation for many people to renounce their citizenship upon obtaining Polish citizenship. That's an American law.

You really ought to stop focusing on American legal concepts. Poland doesn't require anyone to renounce their citizenship upon obtaining Polish citizenship for a start.
pweeg3
6 Dec 2015 #163
Sidelocks?

A reference to Jews perhaps? National Socialist and anti-Semitic. Hitler would be proud.
Legal Eagle
6 Dec 2015 #164
Poland doesn't require anyone to renounce their citizenship upon obtaining Polish citizenship for a start.

The President of Poland has broad powers to confer, or not confer citizenship. He might well decide to grant Polish citizenship to a prominent academic like Norman Davies without requiring that he renounce his present citizenship. He might also decide that permitting others, (like disgruntled foreign English teachers and translators), who are not ethnically Polish to hold dual citizenship is a threat to public order or national security. The Second Polish Republic had a problem with domestic enemies which should not be recreated in the present. When there is a conflict, a person cannot serve two masters. Regardless of what was true under the PO regime, the new President and government can be expected to act more cautiously before conferring citizenship on foreign malcontents.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #165
Dearie me. Yet again, you're displaying a remarkable amount of ignorance when it comes to Polish law. I suggest that you should consider the name "Legal worm", as it would be rather more in line with your level of knowledge.

The President of Poland has broad powers to confer, or not confer citizenship.

Correct, but only when it comes to the citizenship path that involves applying directly to the president for the award of Polish citizenship. The naturalisation path that the majority of people take does not involve the President of Poland, but rather an application to the provincial administration. The President of Poland does not get involved in these decisions, as the competence is devolved to the provincial administrations.

He might well decide to grant Polish citizenship to a prominent academic like Norman Davies without requiring that he renounce his present citizenship.

That only applies to people that apply directly to the President. It does not apply (and the President has no power of veto) over those that apply through the provincial administration. In fact, the law is so clear that an applicant for Polish citizenship may be awarded a positive decision on the spot if the administration feels that all the documents are in order and do not require further investigation.

Regardless of what was true under the PO regime, the new President and government can be expected to act more cautiously before conferring citizenship on foreign malcontents.

Unfortunately, the competence for granting citizenship through the naturalisation path lies with the provincial administrations and not the President or government. Of course, understanding this involves understanding the structure of Poland rather than writing nonsense from several thousand miles away.

Fortunately, Poland realises that there is no harm in granting citizenship to hard working individuals that contribute to Poland, and the new government is highly unlikely to amend the legislation surrounding Polish citizenship.

In case you're struggling to understand the law : Foreigners can be recognised as Polish citizens through naturalisation, or they can be granted citizenship by the President. The two are not the same, as the first category is a right and the second is a privilege.
pweeg3
6 Dec 2015 #166
msw.gov.pl/en/document/ways-of-acquiring-poli/793,Ways-of-acquiring-Polish-citizenship.html

Getting married, living in Poland for 3 years and speaking Polish makes it almost automatic.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #167
Getting married, living in Poland for 3 years and speaking Polish makes it almost automatic.

Pretty much. PiS may be abusing the Constitution now, but they're not going to change the law in this respect.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
6 Dec 2015 #168
Sidelocks?

Someone else's (another poster's) term but apt under the circumstances, don't you think? R U 1 2?
Harry
6 Dec 2015 #169
living in Poland for 3 years and speaking Polish

It's unfortunate that similar requirements aren't put in place for all people who want a Polish passport.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #170
Someone else's (another poster's) term but apt under the circumstances, don't you think? R U 1 2?

Could you perhaps explain what this has to do with PiS openly defying the Constitutional Tribunal?

Anyway, large protest planned in front of the Constitutional Tribunal at on 12.12 at 12:00.
Harry
6 Dec 2015 #171
large protest planned in front of the Constitutional Tribunal at on 12.12 at 12:00.

That sounds good to me. Got any details for the protest outside The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski's place?
Ironside 49 | 10,304
6 Dec 2015 #172
Fortunately, Poland realises that there is no harm in granting citizenship to hard working individuals that contribute to Poland

Aren't you painting quite unashamed a rather faltered picture of yourself. I would argue that your contribution to Poland is rather questionable.

So Delphi do you have Polish passport or not? If Poland or Britain or both leave the EU you will find yourself in the pickle without it.

Pretty much. PiS may be abusing the Constitution now, but they're not going to change the law in this respect.

They could make an exception for an individual of foreign extraction who seems to be amendment in overthrowing a legitimate Polish government.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #173
That sounds good to me. Got any details for the protest outside The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski's place?

Indeed.

facebook/events/1653658364909436/

If you can't access it - 13th December between 19:00-22:00, ul. Adama Mickiewicza 49, Warszawa. It's a legal demonstration and will be policed.

Aren't you painting quite unashamed a rather faltered picture of yourself. I would argue that your contribution to Poland is rather questionable.

If you're going to get into this game, what's your contribution beyond writing rubbish on PF?

So Delphi do you have Polish passport or not? If Poland or Britain or both leave the EU you will find yourself in the pickle without it.

I've got permanent residency and it can only be withdrawn in very few circumstances. Polish passport will follow in one year. Permanent residency gives me the right to live/work here without any restrictions, hence Poland or the UK leaving the EU is irrelevant. Furthermore, as Polonius will tell you, those with Polish spouses have always been able to reside here legally.

They could make an exception for an individual of foreign extraction who seems to be amendment in overthrowing a legitimate Polish government.

Clutching at straws.
Legal Eagle
6 Dec 2015 #174
Got any details for the protest outside The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski's place?

Polish media needs to report on all of the foreign nationals protesting Poland's democratically elected president and parliament. They can love Poland or leave it.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
6 Dec 2015 #175
/events/1653658364909436/

Christ on the bike :)))))) It's being run by some pathological Chatholicophobe from "nowoczesna" and after half of the people on FB told him that he is nuts, he started calling them... Russian trolls :))))) I wouldn't make it up :))))

BTW bets about the number of participants ;)?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 Dec 2015 #176
Polish media needs to report on all of the foreign nationals protesting Poland's democratically elected president and parliament. They can love Poland or leave it.

Nope, sorry. It's our democratic right to protest, and there's nothing you can do about it. In fact, I'm going to rather enjoy it.

By the way, it's common for demonstrations in Poland to include foreigners. Your lack of knowledge about Poland reveals itself further.
Harry
6 Dec 2015 #177
It's our democratic right to protest

A constitutionally protected right.

I'm going to rather enjoy it.

I'm certainly looking forward to it; I may very well go to the events on Saturday and Sunday.
Legal Eagle
6 Dec 2015 #178
Nope, sorry. It's our democratic right to protest,

A constitutionally protected right...I'm certainly looking forward to it

It is a constitutionally protected right for the Polish news media to report on the protests, and they have a corresponding responsibility to report that many of the protesters are foreigners.

By the way, it's common for demonstrations in Poland to include foreigners.

I have seen Belorussians protesting Lukashenko and their government in Warsaw. Foreigners protesting against the first democratically elected President to command majorities in both houses of the Sejm is something a little different. (Although no one would be surprised at foreign rainbow warriors protesting in Poland.) People have a right to know the nationalities of the protesters. Be sure to bring you British, South African, or rainbow flags, etc. to the protests so people can identify you better.
Ironside 49 | 10,304
6 Dec 2015 #179
If you're going to get into this game, what's your contribution beyond writing rubbish on PF?

You started it, you and your pal Harry, incessantly going about how much you are contributing to Poland and what a great assets you are and so on and so forth until you ask for specifics.

Then it comes to light that your BIG contribution amounts to being a native English speaker making living in Poland due to that fact.. Unless you are counting as a contribution a fact that you are siding with some sideline left extremist and nutters in Poland and writing rubbish on PF in those moments you aren't trolling or stalking people.

Harry told me that his contribution amount to not claiming a tax rebate he could have claimed. Brilliant. I couldn't make that up.

I've got permanent residency and it can only be withdrawn in very few circumstances

Yes but if you are taking part in the anti-government demonstration and associating with extremists that can constitute one of those rare circumstances.

Clutching at straws.

Well, that demonstration in Warsaw you are going to, max attendance, I say between 30 to 300 people, do you think it will be difficult to identify all participants if comes to that? What if it'll be known that half of them are foreign nationals? Some of those foreign participants might have their residency papers revoked being considered a potential threat to national security.
Harry
6 Dec 2015 #180
Polish news media to report on the protests, and they have a corresponding responsibility to report that many of the protesters are foreigners.

News media have a duty to report honestly. They wouldn't report that many protesters are foreigners, because the overwhelming majority of those protesters are Polish, just as the overwhelming majority of people in Poland are Polish.

News media also have a habit of reporting news, and non-Polish people playing an active role in Poland simply isn't news. Perhaps you'd learn that if you ever visited Poland.

I couldn't make that up.

You just did make that up.


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