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How strongly are Poles sure that president Duda defend Poland's interests ?


Korvinus 2 | 457
11 Jan 2024 #181
Oh really? What do you spew BS just because it suits what you think?

Duda on the case of Kamiński and Wąsik: I am initiating pardon proceedings
wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/7,114884,30585560,duda-o-sprawie-kaminskiego-i-wasika-w-wszczynam-postepowanie.html#s=BoxMMtImg1

No i pozamiatane. The shining armor is ruined, the boycott of the Sejm is over.

If he grants pardon again, it means that the re-conviction of both men was valid. Therefore, when it became legally binding, they lost their parliamentary seats.
pawian 222 | 23,766
11 Jan 2024 #182
I am initiating pardon proceedings

It is going to take a few months. Both gentlemen will have enough time to think their criminal deeds over.

Those rightists are really amassing people. They do believe they have the moral right to do any wickedness and Goddess combined with History will absolve them.

We need more convictions like theirs to provide good education to other rightists. .
Korvinus 2 | 457
11 Jan 2024 #183
@pawian
my facts don't care about your feelings


pawian 222 | 23,766
11 Jan 2024 #184
my facts don't care

Yes., I realise it but it isn`t a problem. :):):)
Ironside 53 | 12,493
12 Jan 2024 #185
Duda on the case

Duda is an idiot. It doesn't matter if they end up in prison. He should stand on the ground of legality i.e. his pardon was valid and all that the Tusk government did was illegal and in breach of the constitution, it means Holownia, Skurwysynski and that judge should get ready for prison life! Sooner than later!
gumishu 13 | 6,134
12 Jan 2024 #186
If he grants pardon again, it means that the re-conviction of both men was valid.

it's not the same thing as the first time Duda granted them pardon - Duda is going to begin a completely different procedure that has to involve ministry of justice (if I understood correctly - it however won't stop the opposition from claiming Duda admitted to making a mistake with the first time he gave Kamiński and Wąsik pardon)
mafketis 36 | 10,863
12 Jan 2024 #187
his pardon was valid

No it wasn't. How can you pardon someone without a final verdict? Was the legal process supposed to stop then?

Just how confused Duda is can be seen in his use of the term 'uniewinnienie' (acquittal) instead of (ułaskawienie)...

won't stop the opposition from claiming Duda admitted to making a mistake with the first time

Cause he did... the president in Poland doesn't have the power to overturn verdicts or to stop a legal process...
Ironside 53 | 12,493
12 Jan 2024 #188
No it wasn't. How can you pardon someone without a final verdict?

Whatever the correct word for it be a reprieve, clemency, pardon, or whatnot, that is not important. What is important is that the Presidential pardon in Poland (as in the US) can be granted before or after conviction of the crime.

It has been tested in this case as the Constitutional Tribunal ruled in this very case that a presidential pardon can be granted before conviction of the crime and the same had been later ruled by the Highest Court.

So, we have The president and his interpretation and his pardon, which is supported by the ruling of the Constitutional Tribunal, and what stands against it? - some a bunch of political activists in togas that decided they were above the Constitution, the ruling of the CT, and the President. Wow!

In that case, I Ironside the mighty ruler of this Galaxy in my wisdom find them guilty and sentence them to hanging - I guess it is as legit as anything in your eyes? geez.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
12 Jan 2024 #189
the president in Poland doesn't have the power to overturn verdicts or to stop a legal process...

please explain that based on the Polish constitution - good luck, man :)
mafketis 36 | 10,863
12 Jan 2024 #190
the Constitutional Tribunal ruled in this very case

So the unconstitutional version of the constitutional tribunal..... try again.

But then you would agree that a final verdict means both men have lost their positions as MPs?
Ironside 53 | 12,493
12 Jan 2024 #191
try again.

I'm disappointed in you.
mafketis 36 | 10,863
12 Jan 2024 #192
I will do my best to carry on despite that.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
12 Jan 2024 #193
So the unconstitutional version of the constitutional tribunal..... try again.

I never said anything about the Tribunal - use your own knowledge of the Polish constitution to support your claim that the pardon Duda gave to the two PiS politicians in question was invalid
Torq 5 | 667
12 Jan 2024 #194
Well, guys, if Duda wants to pardon Wąsik and Kamiński again, then apparently he himself doesn't think that his first pardon was valid.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
12 Jan 2024 #195
then apparently he himself doesn't think that his first pardon was valid.

I think he 'thinks' too much about their asses in prison. It's not important if they are in jail or not but our President is under pressure and he doesn't perform well. Also, I think that there is some legal distinction to what he is doing now but I don't know the detail and don't care for it.

From a political point of view whatever it is he is doing, he doing it wrong.
You see politics is an art and you need to play by the ear, you can learn but some have no talent for it.
pawian 222 | 23,766
12 Jan 2024 #196
I'm disappointed in you.

The iron authority spoke.
Now, it is time to find an isolated spot and commit a seppuku. hahahaha

his pardon was valid

No, it wasn`t coz it was premature. It is like a teacher gives a mark to a student before he/she reads his/her homework. HA!!!
mafketis 36 | 10,863
12 Jan 2024 #197
his pardon was validNo, it wasn`t coz it was premature.

Even if it wasn't it doesn't override a final (prawomocny) verdict so the criminals in question are no longer MPs. A pardon says a person won't be punished despite proven guilt.
pawian 222 | 23,766
12 Jan 2024 #198
so the criminals in question are no longer MPs

Exactly.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
13 Jan 2024 #199
. A pardon says a person won't be punished despite proven guilt.

Please, don't embarrass yourself.
A pardon does not constitute a legal confession of guilt.
Alien 18 | 4,845
13 Jan 2024 #200
pardon does not constitute a legal confession of guilt.

Yes, only a legally convicted person can be pardoned. However, until the legal remedies have been exhausted, the conviction is not final, which means that a pardon is legally impossible.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
13 Jan 2024 #201
Yes, only a legally convicted person can be pardoned

Have you read the ruling of the Constitutional Tribunal in that case, i.e. in the case of what constitutes a Presidential pardon in Poland? Have you? Because your opinion does not count! It's the ruling that should rule, don't you agree?

Sygn. akt: K 9/17
Alien 18 | 4,845
13 Jan 2024 #202
Because your opinion does not count

Certainly not, but after all, only the guilty can be pardoned, and the innocent do not have to be pardoned. Don't you understand this simple logic.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
13 Jan 2024 #203
D

Trybunał Konstytucyjny wydał dziś wyrok, w którym uznał, że prezydent miał prawo do ułaskawienia Mariusza Kamińskiego jeszcze przed prawomocnym wyrokiem sądu.

Aktualizacja: 17.07.2018 14:03

You were saying? That your simple logic should rule over legislative reality in Poland? You truly are an Allien!
Alien 18 | 4,845
13 Jan 2024 #204
simple logic

It was at this moment that my friend, a real estate broker, wrote to me that he also does not know what is currently happening in Poland (living in Poland), but one thing he does know is that "we have a complete idiot as president." That's it as a comment to end the topic.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
13 Jan 2024 #205
he also does not know what is currently happening in Poland

but one thing he does know

Seems to me he idiot that doesn't know what is going on. What topic? My topic is the fact that Tusk's acts are criminal and he is acting unlawfully.

However, the special focus should be on the judge who made that bizarre ruling - that dude should be put in jail for life!
mafketis 36 | 10,863
13 Jan 2024 #206
Have you read the ruling of the Constitutional Tribunal in that case

The constitutional tribunal with unconstitutionally appointed members?
gumishu 13 | 6,134
13 Jan 2024 #207
Yes, only a legally convicted person can be pardoned.

where in law does it state that (including constitution)?
Ironside 53 | 12,493
13 Jan 2024 #208
The constitutional tribunal with unconstitutionally appointed members?

You should take your mind off the Russian case here because it seems it consumes your mindpower and you have no brain power to compute other issues.

The short answer is yes.
Alien 18 | 4,845
13 Jan 2024 #209
where in law does it state

According to Google, this was stated by the Supreme Court in May 2017 in Poland.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
13 Jan 2024 #210
According to Google,

Darn it! Man if you want to believe it, just keep clutching to your beliefs and stop trying to make it real outside your little Alien nest.

Facts do not care about your feelings and the fact is that it was what it was ... are you slow?


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