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What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus?


Ironside 49 | 10,481
16 Aug 2020 #61
He definitely have upper hand.

Not in general in Belarus. In general he is not making that well. It is mostly due to the fact that the Russian state is inherently faulty.
Crow 139 | 8,302
16 Aug 2020 #62
Not in general in Belarus.

But of course. See whats going on in the world. He barely controls Russia. Trump barely controls the USA. Xi barely controls China. Macron, France, Merkel, Germany. Duda, Poland. Etc. Non have absolute control of anything. This applies to all countries and all world powers. There are deep states in every country and then you also have some kind of deep state `internationala`. There are real things and there are fake/fabricated events. Intersections of interests of the most powerful at particular moment result in some solution, temporary or on some long run.

Russian state is inherently faulty

In some extent not stable enough, true, I would say. But if you are just arrogant and in fact deeply in yourself love Poland and your Polish and Slavic self, you would pray for Russia. To positively evolve. Why? If nothing else, then at least to be able to preserve balance of power (in Europe and world) and exactly in that balance of power still exist Poland (Slavic West) and Serbia (Slavic South). If they get Russia, neither Poland, neither Serbia continuing to exist as Slavic. In fact, we would be simple canceled and erased from the map, swallowed by the Germanics.
pawian 173 | 12,727
16 Aug 2020 #63
Belarussians are still too tender with the regime. Now a few hundred thousand people have taken to the streets of Minsk and nothing - they are only demonstrating peacefully.

First of all, they should break into the prison and free political prisoners. Then, they need to occupy TV and radio buildings to make their own propaganda and spread the news about their revolution. They can also surround the government headquarters and force Lukashenka to leave in panic on board a helicopter. Later, such photos like below become iconic.

Yes, they could do all that. But what for? Only to have Lukashenka replaced by another dictator controlled by the Kremlin?



Crow 139 | 8,302
17 Aug 2020 #64
Belarussians are still too tender with the regime

Or rather, things aren`t simple in modern world. When Poland entered EU and NATO it was one world. Now is different. Things aren`t simple and before toppling regime people always thinks of the alternative.

Let me put it this way. What Poland in particular offering to Belarus?

One thing. Guaranteed and by default conflict with Russia. Default on which no Belorussian can dream to have influence, when even Poles themselves don`t have influence. Those who controls this default are outside of Poland.

See? Poland have nothing else to offer. Think about it.

Now you go topple the regime down and put your children in chaos and complete unknown. So, they wait to see what happens next.
pawian 173 | 12,727
18 Aug 2020 #65
Today some Belarussians

When Poland entered EU and NATO it was one world. Now is different. T

Yes. Belarussians didn˛t take their chance to make a resolute decision about joining the Euro structures in 1990s. Poland did and now we can gather what we sowed.

Today, the EU has to solve other problems than worry about Belarus and their European aspirations.

That is why the prognosis is negative - they will have to stay with Russia for the next decades and nothing will change. Leaders might change but the political and economic situation won`t. Especially economy - it will deteriorate even further coz nobody will venture to introduce necessary reforms and even when they try, they will be blocked by the post-Soviet establishment.

All in all, Poland will surely benefit from Belarussian emigration - they are decent people who will work hard and integrate well.

So, they wait to see what happens next.

Yes, that is why I said: What for?
kondzior 12 | 1,103
18 Aug 2020 #66
Now you go topple the regime down and put your children in chaos and complete unknown

Vatniks were telling similar sh!t about Yanuk. And it was even somewhat plausible in his case. But Lukashenko cannot be unelected. He ruled country for 27 years ffs. So what does your proposition to get rid of Lukashenko looks like?
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 189
18 Aug 2020 #67
@kondzior

We are living in a world of such obvious double standards. There is a dictator in Europe who has been in power for a period even longer than Lukashenko but I never saw any politician from the West show any public objection about elections there.

youtu.be/C6VycxyReQw

Plus, first aim must be to secure right of people in Belarus have its own right to choose its future.

Would you also support the protests of Antifa and Black Lives Matters demonstrators in the US? Shouldn't then according to this twisted logic American people have the same right?

Maidan

Because the same individuals who were behind the Maidan in Ukraine and were trying unsuccessfully to oust President Trump by organizing protests against him are the same ones behind these demonstrations in Belarus.

These coloured revolutions, "orange" in Ukraine, "velvet" in Georgia, the 5th October 2000 revolution in Serbia in which President Milosevic was ousted, Arab Spring were all organized and arranged by the same authors.

youtu.be/63zv2z5wcRo
cms neuf - | 1,755
18 Aug 2020 #68
I think you forgot to mention Prague 1968, Hungary 1956 and the storming of the Bastille - all planned by the same guys

They will be coming for Russia next. Then what are you gonna do for a living?
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 189
18 Aug 2020 #69
@Soroshevac

Perhaps the real question is how much are you getting paid monthly by George Soros and his NGO's?

The funds are not endless however, and after being used, you too will be discarded by them like a roll of toilet paper.

(And we all know what happens to a toilet paper after it's used once).

;)
cms neuf - | 1,755
18 Aug 2020 #70
Nic. Not one grosze

Unlike you who gets a few places higher up on the list for a crappy Lada and a faulty color television LOL. Careful you don't end up in the nickel mines like Rich Mazur
Crow 139 | 8,302
18 Aug 2020 #71
Well, I don't like that foreign meddlimg in Belarus. Lukasenko is no perfect but, as we all know, those in EU who wants to annex Belarus are far worse.

Too bad Poland's politics still seek to find purpose and balance.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 189
18 Aug 2020 #72
EU who wants to annex Belarus are far worse.

Read this, it is the best expose regarding the true nature and purpose of EU. It also explains what is happening currently in Belorussia.

nacionalnasvest.rs/SRBIJA%20I%20EVROPSKA%20UNIJA%20M%20PETROVIC%202008%20lat.htm

youtu.be/HofBZKZIbS0

Unfortunately the Ukrainian scenario in Crna Gora seems ever more likely.
pawian 173 | 12,727
18 Aug 2020 #73
What Poland in particular offering to Belarus?

I am not sure what they are offering coz it is confidential info which will be revealed later on.

What should Poland do? Acknowledge Mrs Cichanouska as a new President. Coordinate that action with other neighbouring countries. Win the EU`s support for that solution. Collect info on Belarus regime henchmen who massacred people in streets so that they won`t be allowed to enter Poland`s territory one day.

If Lukashenka orders his troops to shoot into Polish territory, abstain with full strike retaliation.
Crow 139 | 8,302
19 Aug 2020 #74
What should Poland do?

Avoid bloodshed.

Unfortunately the Ukrainian scenario in Crna Gora seems ever more likely.

No, I don`t fear that. More likely is that inspired from outside local Albanians move to open terrorism at the moment when Milo Djukanovic is no more (after elections), and Crna Gora openly return to closer ties with Serbia.
cms neuf - | 1,755
19 Aug 2020 #75
We should find a solution that is best for the Belarus people - that is going to be democracy and a free market with support from the advanced countries of the world. Its not the same as being in EU and NATO.

Worrying all the time about what a 67 year old ex KGB thief dictator wants is just going to result in the lowest common denominator. Putin wont be there for ever - he can worry about his own country and how to steal some more money before they push his statue into the river.
Crow 139 | 8,302
19 Aug 2020 #76
democracy and a free market with support from the advanced countries of the world. Its not the same as being in EU and NATO

Before Maiden there was UKPOLBAT project where beside Poland and Ukraine, Serbia and Belarus were involved. There were joint military exercises, signed documents between states, etc. When Germany extended her hand to tackle and sponsor banderists in the region, with ruining Ukraine, ruined UKRPOLBAT project.

Why Poland isn`t capable to openly point finger in Germany and EU for this?
Crow 139 | 8,302
19 Aug 2020 #77
We are living in a world of such obvious double standards.

Having selective principles and double standards Poland harming its own status in the world, in Europe and Slavic world. Harming even its own sovereignty.
Wincig 2 | 222
19 Aug 2020 #78
Why Poland isn`t capable to openly point finger in Germany and EU for this?

Crowie, no one points a finger in, but "to". Maybe you tried to do such a thing and damaged your brain in the process, which would explain a lot :)
Crow 139 | 8,302
19 Aug 2020 #79
Eh, thanks for correction.

Still, why did you tackle my brain, in the process, dobri brate?

Don't you yourself feel that politics of Poland lack principles and elemental honesty. Like that Poland mocking itself. Why not loudly say EU is right here and there mistaking? Why not say Russia or USA here are right and there mistaking?Why not say Pope is here right and there mistaking? Etc?

See?

All is predictable in Polands politics, and in a same tonality. True, only Serbs are exception. Only they have special treatment. But that doesn't make things clear of what Poland want. It only explains why are Serbs hated by those who hate Poland.
pawian 173 | 12,727
19 Aug 2020 #80
If Lukashenka orders his troops to shoot into Polish territory, abstain with full strike retaliation.

Lukashenka is trying the play the Polish card in a dirty way. E..g, he announced that Polish flags were hung out in the city of Grodno and added he would not allow that. It means he accuses Poles of plans to get Belarus back.
Ironside 49 | 10,481
19 Aug 2020 #81
Lukashenka is trying the play

the first fruit of PiS policy. Waiting for some more, let see what Morawiecki is going to do.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434
20 Aug 2020 #82
The EU (Poland too) is not recognizing the outcome of the latest Belarus election...meaning Lukashenko.

Threat of new crackdown on protesters as EU signals support for 'peaceful transition' in Belarus

euronews.com/2020/08/19/eu-leaders-to-discuss-next-steps-for-belarus
pawian 173 | 12,727
20 Aug 2020 #83
the first fruit of PiS policy. Waiting for some more,

Hmm, I am puzzled what you mean now. I don`t understand why PiS government is responsible for Lukashenka playing dirty with Poland.
Crow 139 | 8,302
20 Aug 2020 #84
People, people. What we really knows about situation in Belarus? Really. Mind yourself about Goebels, Nazis and Lili Marlen. And today we knows that Hitler admired to Islam and that Papacy admired to Hitler.
AntV 2 | 273
20 Aug 2020 #85
Would Russia really send troops if pushes come to shove?

That's a good question. If they do, then we got two Russian military actions going on at the doorstep of Poland and the EU, and this one would be at the invitation of the Belrussian gov. One would think such friendliness would allow Russian operatives to roam anywhere in Belarus, even, say ,at the Polish border--might even take a day trip across the border.

The EU (Poland too) is not recognizing the outcome of the latest Belarus election...meaning Lukashenko.

Canada also has officially refused to recognize and the US has said it wasn't a free and fair election, so pressure is mounting. I don't see Lukashenko ceding power, so that Russian support looms even larger day by day.

Today, the EU has to solve other problems than worry about Belarus and their European aspirations.

But, what about Russian inetrvention within Belarus? Wouldn't that change the equation for Poland? If so, then Belarus is worthy of a solution now so as to blunt any such intervention from happening in the (near) future wouldn't you say?
Crow 139 | 8,302
21 Aug 2020 #86
Just wait that global powers start social experiments on western Europe. Lusatia would be free and rest of eastern Germany would be Poland. Sweden would be Poland, too. Austria? What Austria. Spain minus free Catalania. Belgia? What Belgia. Italy? Free Padania. Rest of Italy? Pandemonioum. Etc.
pawian 173 | 12,727
21 Aug 2020 #87
so as to blunt any such intervention from happening in the (near) future wouldn't you say?

Europe or Poland aren`t able to prevent that intervention no matter what we do. Belarus is too close to Russia and I don`t even mean physically as neighbours - I mean mentally, culturally, lingustically etc.

Majority of Belarussians treat Russia as an ally so when Lukashenka or his successor calls for Russian troops to deal with too much unrest, most society will not oppose it. They will be unhappy but won`t fight like Ukrainians.
Crow 139 | 8,302
21 Aug 2020 #88
We now know more. Some im opposition in Belarus are anti-Slavic. A traitors.

I just heard Serbian FM Dacic said that Serbia have neutrsl stance on events in Belarus, in sense that Serbia don't support neither Lukasenko, neither oposition. Then he said that it sadness Serbia that some oposition leaders in Belarus, Svetlana Tichanovskaya support Greater Albania.

I would later give you YouTube link of that video.
Ironside 49 | 10,481
21 Aug 2020 #89
I don`t understand why

I know, that why I'm always telling you to play in a kindergartener with children on your level rather that make pitiful attempts at debating politicks with me.
pawian 173 | 12,727
21 Aug 2020 #90
I know, that why I'm always telling you to play

hahaha You can`t even explain the bs you dropped above. You lost again. boooooo


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