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What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus?

23 Aug 2020 #121
Poland could retake Grodno and Brest/Brześć. That and the Łwów valley are very sunny compared to most of Central Europe. Brest has more sunshine hours than Munich! But joking aside now it's time Poland opens the border to all Belarusians so they can take refuge in Poland.
pawian 223 | 24,581
23 Aug 2020 #122
At last some refugees in Poland. Poles will be able to practise their Christianity, not only in theory during Sunday mass service but also in reality. Better late than never.
johnny reb 50 | 7,366
23 Aug 2020 #123
For example? What does Poland need that Belarus has?

Nuclear power plant is the first thing that comes to my mind.
Poland could clean up their air quality without having a nuclear reactor located on Poland's soil.
A win win for both countries.

I will believe that when Central European Union is created

What a magnificent thought Crow.
Get rid of the evil West and the evil East.

Poles will be able to practise their Christianity

Yes and with people that could easily assimilate to Poland's work force and culture.
Always take advantage of a disaster.
mafketis 37 | 10,848
24 Aug 2020 #124
Get rid of the evil West and the evil East.

Crow's in favor of the evil East....
Spike31 3 | 1,769
24 Aug 2020 #125
Poland should do nothing about it. If Belarusians are strong enough to change it, they will do it themselves. Stability on the eastern border is the only thing Poland should care about. And Lukaszenko was good at playing both: Russia and the West and kept Belarus relatively independent because it was in his best interest.

Anyway, what has the West to offer to Belarus? Influx of "refugees" from Africa and Middle East, parades of pederasts under the rainbow banner? Incorporation into the 3rd Reich, I mean "ever tighter EU socialist union"? Well, maybe the last would be tempting for them cause it would remind them of a similar socialist political organism: the USRR

Poland should mind its own business first and foremost.

There are bigger problems right now, like #plandemic. First Poles need to send a clear message to the ruling party that we won't tolerate idiotic measures which serve no other purpose but to limit our civil liberties and it is crippling the economy at the same time.
Crow 159 | 9,023
24 Aug 2020 #126

Brate Spike31, this is so far best comment. I will only add that instead to do nothing, Poland for change can criticize EU for meddling in affairs of one Slavic country. That stance of official Poland would be great plus. Changes should come in Belarus, but also in many many countries that now criticize Belarus. Imagine just Italy that is in debt for trillion dollars. Absolutely insane country where rule mafia and Vatican, while Muslims arriving in millions. Only deluded madman would rather live in Italy then in Belarus. Still, non seeks to destabilize Italy and push it in bloodshed. K***a EU and NATO rather wants Slavic blood.

People, Arabs literaly eat people in Italy. Can you imagine THAT happen in Belarus? Can you imagine Paki open his vaginal mutilation workshop in Belarus. Ask yourself sincerely. Of course not. But on the west of Europe it becoming necesity. Cultural standard.
Crow 159 | 9,023
25 Aug 2020 #127
If official Poland is involved in events in Belarus that is maybe good. Its time for changes in Poland, too. Positive changes, of course.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,204
26 Aug 2020 #128
I think The Republic of Poland should show AS much solidarity with the population in Belarus, while the Polish citizens take it further then what the state can act. Time to show that «Za naszą i waszą wolność" isn't only said when Poland is in trouble!
Crow 159 | 9,023
26 Aug 2020 #129

I am all for changes. I truly hope events in Belarus have cascade effects on neighboring Poland and Russia. We know that Russia need changes. No need to elaborate this. But Poland too. Kashubs aren`t happy. How are things in Silesia? What about Lusatians, Lemkos, etc. What about dictate of Vatican? Do Catholics feel happy about Vatican`s and Papacy pressure? Rights of Orthodox and Protestants in Poland? Majority of Poles aren`t happy that official Poland recognized Kosovo. Drop of EU support in Poland. Etc.

Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,204
26 Aug 2020 #130
I think Poland should stay in EU as long as possible, Kingdom of Poland formed a proto-EU with Grand Duchy of Lithuania in her time. Why not have this same influence across all European states? Possibly form a Union with Russian Federation if circumstances will allow it. While Russia wouldn't lose any influence being in the Union as it has nuclear arsenal and firepower. It would also strongly counter balance French and German influences.

Vatican's political influence is next to zero in Poland, only the Catholic Clergy in Poland has anything to say politically. On religious matters is a different thing. Anyways, no matter how much pressure it is. Poland will withstand it, Poland might give the false impression of a lap-dog to many :)
Crow 159 | 9,023
26 Aug 2020 #131
@Mr Grunwald
I agree with your words on the EU, Grand Duchy, Russia. All could profit from it. But things, in reality, moved the other way. Idiots from western Europe didn't want it and instead violently destroyed Yugoslavia, Ukraine. Russia now feels threatened and encircled, with good reasons.

Poland might give the false impression of a lap-dog to many :)

I wouldn't say that. But you know what is indicative of a problem? Vatican genocide on Orthodox Serbs. Before it Vatican's cultural genocide on Catholic Serbs (and finally open ethnic genocide on them too). Not a single word from Poland in favor of Catholic or Orthodox Serbs. Not a single word. Poles even don't know of this. And Poland is a big Catholic country. At the same time, positive emotion exists between Orthodox Serbs and Catholic Poles. But still, silence on the Vatican's crimes. That is an indication of a deep problem. See, Poels and Serbs know that their interests go hand in hand and so there are mutual warm feelings. But the Vatican follows its own agenda. So, Serbs now have a problem. Poland has a problem. Not with Serbs. With the Vatican. Fewer Serbs, fewer Polish interests in the region. Not to say that the Serbian question makes the difference of Poland as solely local power or becoming continental and even world power. With Poland-Serbia axis that is reality. But, the Vatican doesn't want it. It seeks absolute control and prefers Germanics. Prefers Germanics.

With the move a finger Vatican ruined Yugoslavia. Great lesson for the future. Poles and Serbs should organize themselves that their expansion and mutual mergings don't depend either on the Vatican, either on east or west of Europe, and neither on the USA.

Do you want Belarus, Czeska, Slovakia around Poland? It goes by that logic I described you. The Serbian question is a test for Poland. Non was loyal to Poland as Serbs were and are. Show us all Poland is independent. Show care. But don't criticize poor Lukashenko, when there are monsters in Rome and Poland says nothing. When criticize, criticize all. Poland must be objective or Poland would fail. Also, don't fear. It will be what will be but the truth must be said and defended. Awake Sarmatism. It's all about it. Above religious differences.

Lead or move aside because changes are coming for all of us. Racowie are in the move.
Ironside 51 | 12,447
26 Aug 2020 #132
Poles will be able to practise their Christianity,

You should do it first !

Vatican genocide on Orthodox Serbs.

If you are a prime example how their brains works they pretty much done that genocide to themselves.

Lead or move

Yes move from this thread. You are like Corona, a f virus that takes over threads and destroys them with your particular strain of stupidity.
mafketis 37 | 10,848
26 Aug 2020 #133
We agree about something! But dont' let it go to your head or anything...
Crow 159 | 9,023
26 Aug 2020 #134

I understand. You have every right to have YOUR vision of Poland. And I respect that. I am even ready to defend your right to have stupid opinions.
Spike31 3 | 1,769
26 Aug 2020 #135
There's this notion in mass media that the situation in Belarus was inspired by the West.

I think it's the other way around. Russia has more to gain in this case.

I'll explain why. Since the beginning of the year Lukaszenko was trying to emancipate Belarus from Russia even further than before.

First he tried to negotiate lower prices on gas and oil from Russia and in order to do so he imported it from Arab countries, Norway and even from the US to put a pressure on Putin.

His second move was to introduce a dumping prices on chemical fertilizers which Belarus produce on export in order to push out Russia from a large Chinese market.

He became too much of a hassle for Russia.
I think kremlin wants to swap him or at least to weaken his political position in order to control him better in the future.
Crow 159 | 9,023
26 Aug 2020 #136
Russia generally shows tendency to avoid merging with regions outside of Russia (but connected with Russia) that are historically antagonistic. That was reason why Russia allowed conditioned independance of Ukraine and Belarus.

It was chance for Poland, to gain in it with consent of Russia but western Europe meddling and force Russia to react unpredictably.

I will be blunt. Western Europe harming Poland and hate Poles. And its no secret.
Spike31 3 | 1,769
26 Aug 2020 #137
The problem is that the majority of Poles haven't learned yet that the benefits of the EU are far outweighed by cons of our membership by now.

And also that the current state of the EU is not something we agreed on in 2004.
That view is connected with the communist the past when most couldn't travel outside of Communist Block and leftist politicians have used that fear and connected freedom of travel with the EU.

Fortunately the EU does its best (enforced Muslim "refugees", militant LGBT indoctrination) to convince more and more people to change their minds.
And the young generation is more eusceptical than older Poles, who still perceive Western Europe as "something special".
Lenka 5 | 3,525
26 Aug 2020 #138
majority of Poles haven't learned yet

Or maybe they simply drew a different conclusion?
Spike31 3 | 1,769
26 Aug 2020 #139
Or maybe they need some more time and more persuasion to learn about it just like the Brits did?

I'm counting on the EU and its neo-Marxist methods to make such a decision much easier for Poles to say adieu.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,699
26 Aug 2020 #140
First Poland would need to become a net payer too...
Ziemowit 14 | 4,258
26 Aug 2020 #141
There is absolutely no discussion here in Poland on leaving the EU. Such a topic is null, a perfect zero. It simply doesn't exist here. There are no slightest hints for leaving the Union. The government may be chasing the LGBT, but it gives no signs whatsoever of contemplating a Polexit. Neither does the opposition.

Also, I think that when we become net payers, the majority of people would still be choosing to remain in the Union. All parallels with the UK are inaccurate and wrong. Maybe some Polish nationalistic circles are in favour of leaving, but their voice is not even heard among the general public. End of story.
Spike31 3 | 1,769
27 Aug 2020 #142
First Poland would need to become a net payer too...

That depends on how we would count it:

But even if we would take it strictly as direct money transfers between two organizations, judging by the GBP growth Poland will become a net payer by the end of this decade.

There is absolutely no discussion here in Poland on leaving the EU

No, not in the mainstream media. However, just because it is not shown on 3 most popular tv channels and 2 mainstream internet portals doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are other media which are more closely connected with the audience. And they are more interactive: niche internet portals, youtube channels, discussion forums, popular twitter accounts, that's where the opinions are being forged for the young generation.

And there are also [at least] 11 MEPs from Konfederacja in the Parliament which are openly EUsceptic.

PiS wants to "reform" the EU to become , which is like trying to convince a hiena to stop eating carcass. The whole project was planned as a ne-marxist ever-tighter union leading to federation. What happens now in the EU is not a 'mistake' which can be/should be corrected but an execution of the plan. Plain and simple

That said, those spats between the EU coe and PiS are also very beneficial for our Polish cause. It may feel like a very mundane and ungrateful task but the main goal is to convince enough people that the EU membership has more negatives than positives for Poland to turn the tide and then nothing will stop the changes. Exactly like in the case of Brexit.
Crow 159 | 9,023
27 Aug 2020 #143
I'm counting on the EU and its neo-Marxist methods to make such a decision much easier for Poles to say adieu.

Yes, EU just needs more time to prove itself. But not only thru neo-Marxist methods. Also, Islamic and Nazi ways. When sh** starts in that playground, conflicts such was Yugoslavia would look like child's play.

That was reason why Russia allowed conditioned independence of Ukraine and Belarus.

Forgot to mention. Also, for same reason allowed independence of Baltic states.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,258
27 Aug 2020 #144
There are other media which are more closely connected with the audience.

Connected with their own audience rather than with a general one.These are niche media which only engage a tiny minority of the population and who tend to think of themselves as some sort of an influential group.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,699
27 Aug 2020 #145
judging by the GBP growth Poland will become a net payer by the end of this decade.

Wouldn't that be cool? That would give Poland's voice much more weight...

I wonder what that would mean for Warsaw's policies in Brussels....and it's alliances...

But not only thru neo-Marxist methods. Also, Islamic and Nazi ways

Neo-Marxist, Islamic AND Nazi!!! WOW!!!
Ironside 51 | 12,447
27 Aug 2020 #146
Russia has more to gain in this case.

Yep, stand to reason that Russia could gain if Lukashenko was disposed. I wouldn't be surprised if they would have played both sides.
Crow 159 | 9,023
27 Aug 2020 #147
Neo-Marxist, Islamic AND Nazi!!! WOW!!!

Of course. Germany experimented even with Nazi-Islam on the Balkans during WWII and this last Civil War here. What is there surprise to you? Hitler admired to Islam and EU is firmly on Hitler`s path. And now, Germany is God give land for experiments. Many German woman would cry. And not only woman. Also those man who aren`t sure what they are.
Spike31 3 | 1,769
27 Aug 2020 #148
These are niche media which only engage a tiny minority

Each separate channel and platform of interaction engages a small dedicated minority.

Mainstream media manage to reach most but fails to engage the masses at the same level. Mainsteam media can enforce their narrative as the only "valid" narrative only when they've got a total monopoly on news. The internet has changed everything.

One simple example: Konfederacja would stand a slim chance to get to parliament without the internet, with all the mainstream media being hostile/ignoring it.

And I know how dedicated are those supporters since I've been actively engaged in it and I could take a peek behind the curtain as a co-creator of one of them. Those niche news portals which you downplayed and contributed to Konfederacja's results in parliamentary elections.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,699
28 Aug 2020 #149
The internet has changed everything.

That didn't start with the listen to several news sources is an old thing....just remember back to WWII or the times of the Cold War. Radio waves couldn't be hold back by the Iron Curtain. People in East Germany even watched West TV when they could. It was also a propaganda war!

It's not so much a question of availability but trustworthiness. A survey found out that a majority of Germans still watch and believe the "mainstream" news, even as they inform themselves also through various Social Media. The Internet has become an addition, not a full replacement.

The tipping point, where a majority completely distrusts the mainstream media and only believe their own opinion bubble has not been reached....yet. Maybe will never.
Spike31 3 | 1,769
28 Aug 2020 #150
That didn't start with the listen to several news sources is an old thing

Yes, but back then it was still very limited to those who could afford very expensive equipment and a team of engineers to put it together and to maintain it. And if he wanted to broadcast had to apply for permissions, a license (it was more strictly controlled by bureaucrats) and so on.

Nowadays, the access to creation of information (not only consumtion) by common folks is much wider than ever before.

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