Previous Poland's government corrupting the media.

you here repeat the lies of Rostowski - and you also prove you read nothing outside your own information bubble - all of the original 500+ programme has been covered by the rise in VAT (not counting the fuel akcyza tax) incomes in Poland -all of it - it caused certain deficit in the budget in the first year (2016) but not later - also Poland experienced unprecedented growth in the year before coronavirus - read here: wpolityce.pl/gospodarka/430887-w-ciagu-ostatnich-3-lat-wplywy-z-vat-wzrosly-az-o-52-mld-zl

the rise in the VAT incomes for the Polish budget was mainly because of curbing of VAT fraud which PO seemingly could not accomplish

Did it also cover the extra pensions, 2 bn for TVP, the pay rise for politicians?

you here repeat the lies of Rostowski - and you also prove you read nothing outside your own information bubble - all of the original 500+ programme has been covered by the rise in VAT (not counting the fuel akcyza tax) incomes in Poland -all of it - it caused certain deficit in the budget in the first year (2016) but not later - also Poland experienced unprecedented growth in the year before coronavirus - read here: wpolityce.pl/gospodarka/430887-w-ciagu-ostatnich-3-lat-wplywy-z-vat-wzrosly-az-o-52-mld-zl


it isn't pro-PiS - it is trying to be objective - which shows just how prejudiced (and probably misinformed) you are

Gumishu, are you really incapable of believing nothing other than propaganda produced by PiS?

strefabiznesu.pl/koniec-ogromnych-zyskow-budzetu-z-uszczelniania-vat-z-czego-rzad-sfinansuje-program-500-plus/ar/c3-15006283

It's simply not true that the VAT revenues cover 500+. The Ministry of Finance's own numbers proved that.


Sorry Gumishu, but you really have to rely on different media than that run by PIS.

These programmes are unfunded, which means that it's our children that will have to pay the price of these handouts. Do you think that's fair or in any way socially acceptable, given that taxes tend to disproportionately affect the poorest?

Let's not forget that in Poland, you pay income tax on almost your entire earnings.

members of parliament actuallly lost 20 or 25 per cent of their money - after the 'nagrody' presumed scandal - I was thoroughly supporting the nagrody - a goverment that curbed down humungous VAT fraud really earned them - it's just Polish people who are idiots


so you haven't read the article - I am not surprised at all

This is good. Lenka is in minority , most people will want to see the news for the day, and will check out TVP and will see its not bad. TVP ratings have been rising steadily for the last five years anyway, seems people got sick of of vegan tranny muslim wokeism on the other channels.

stopping the leaching of the budget by crooks who used state-subsidied pharmaceuticals with the e-recepta and the laws surrounding it will probably give 4 billion PLN yearly - of course PO government couldn't do it (or maybe they didn't want to)


I never said all of the PiS programmes have been funded by the growth of VAT income (just 500+) - and I thoroughly realize that 13th and 14th pension for those retired are an expensive bribe - I also see why the government is not entirely unhappy with the price hikes of goods and services (but I don't believe your exaggerations delph)

I'm telling you that it's simply not true. The VAT 'sealing' brought around 22bn a year (may I also remind you that they simply implemented the plans brought by PO/PSL in order to achieve that?) - while 500+ costs around 40bn. You simply cannot avoid mathematics here, no matter how much the PiS controlled media tells you otherwise.

If there is to be 500+, it should be in the form of a 500zł tax credit for every child. Someone with 3 children would get a 1500zł monthly tax credit, meaning that they could earn up to around 10,000zł without paying taxes. Fair, reasonable and encourages hard work and pension contributions.

As for politicians and pay rises - losing 20-25% of your salary means nothing when your partner has a very well paid job in a state-controlled company. Standard practice for PiS, and means that only the opposition is hurt by such cuts.


If they check out TVP, they're going to be thoroughly disgusted by it. It's primitive propaganda at best, as witnessed by the fact that even people in PiS can't stand what Kurski has done to it.

@gumishu
demagog.org.pl/wypowiedzi/jak-wygladaly-wplywy-z-podatku-vat-w-ostatnich-latach/ - this table shows the VAT income in recent years (and roughly 52 billion rise between the years 2015 and 2018) - the big chunk of the growth was thanks to stopping of VAT fraud


the oppostition shouted scandal and they paid for it


if it was true why did Rostowski say - pieniędzy nie ma i nie będzie (there is no money for 500+ and there won't be any) - maybe he is an expert like that

Uh...you have read that link, right? Not only does it expose Morawiecki as lying, but you're also failing to take into account that Poland's economy grew strongly in the second part of the 2010's. A rise in VAT revenues would be quite normal during economic boom periods.

alebank.pl/kryzys-zweryfikowal-efekty-uszczelniania-vat-%E2%80%92-luka-wzrosla-do-36-mld-zlotych

It gets worse - the so-called 'sealing' simply hasn't worked. There's now a VAT gap of around 36bn PLN, which is similar to what existed before.


Is it really, really so hard to understand that PiS have lied through their teeth about the source of income for those social benefits, and that they're really being financed through endless taxes and printing of money?


Was he wrong, in light of the fact that 500+ is unfunded as we can see?

you are arguing with a point I haven't made - I haven't said all of the VAT growth was directly thanks to curbing the VAT fraud


the economic boom we had was mostly because of the influx of the money that used to leak to VAT fraud into the official economy especially to those who had very little before (who could suddenly afford more than just bread and margarine)


the current VAT gap has nothing to do with VAT fraud but with VAT evasion which is caused by the rise of black economy where money flows without being reported - some people are affraid now of buying things and services legally - like all those fraudulent doctors and lawyers who cannot prove their income and have to go -an fear electronic VAT fakturas

I haven't said nothing in the shape that PiS has removed all of the VAT gap - however that part of VAT gap (VAT evasion, black economy) is not easy to curb

Oh my word, Gumishu, what are you talking about? Have you completely ignored the massive amount of investment in Poland over the last few years? What about the fact that Poland is the outsourcing capital of Europe now? What about all those factories and warehouses that are springing up all over Poland? The improved VAT collection had very little to do with that - and everything to do with the fact that Poland was seen as a stable and predictable place to do business combined with cheap wages on a European level.


...because there are now possibilities for them to work in real companies and not just those run by Janusz and Seba? Take Amazon - every day, there are buses arriving from all over Wielkopolska and Lower Silesia to deliver workers to their warehouses. That's a real and tangible impact on the employment situation in small towns and villages.

Now we see what the real problem is with independent media. They won't allow the simple narrative of "VAT sealing means we can pay generous benefits" - they will look at the numbers and present the true situation, contrary to the government's propaganda.

500+ is unfunded. It's as simple as that, and it's being paid for through direct and indirect taxation, money transferred from other sources (health, education, etc) and through debt. I'm in education, I know how public schools are starved of investment, I know how small towns and villages are really struggling to even pay teachers because the amount of money from the government is falling each year.

And you're right about doctors and so on, but let's not forget that it was PO/PSL who started on the path of the JPK and PiS implemented it. Both PO and PiS deserve their share of the credit for digitalising and monitoring VAT - neither is particularly better or worse in this sense.

22 billion (*but I safely even a bit more) bet more went into the official economy - you don't think it created jobs? - you don't think it created a snowball effect


you are right now contradicting the narration of the total opposition and other critics of the goverment who said that foreing investment in Poland slowed down significantly when PiS came to power (because it is seen as unstable) - so who of you is right?

OMG, you're right, I thought they changed that! PiS is more stupid than I thought:

spidersweb.pl/bizblog/500-budzet-bogaci-polacy/

finanse.wp.pl/500-nie-dla-bogatych-polacy-nie-chca-powszechnego-swiadczenia-6356747862022273a

(the title says: "No for the rich. Poles don't want 500+ for everyone")

Unbelievable...


One doesn't need to listen to Rostowski or live in an information bubble - all you need is to live in Poland and have a working brain. Do you know who Teresa Czerwińska is? She was the Minister of Finance in the first cabinet of Mateusz Morawiecki in years 2018-2019. She also wasn't, to put it midly, a supporter of all of those PiS's social handouts. She said that there are going to be money for that in short term, but in the long term it's going to be a serious problem. So she got dismissed:

newsweek.pl/polska/teresa-czerwinska-odwolana-z-rzadu-trafi-do-nbp/2rdcjqf


It used to be objective - at one point my parents preferred it to watching TVN for this reason. I'm not prejudiced, I barely ever watch Polsat's news, I'm basing it on what my parents said, on some of my own observations and the general opinion which Polsat and Solorz have on the Polish internet. My parents have been watching all kinds of TV news channels for years, they're news maniacs lol, so they know what they're talking about.

And even if Polsat is just trying to be objective - then why are they taking part in the media protest if the new tax isn't an issue?


During the PiS rule in the years 2016-18 (just two years) Poland's debt rose by 110 billion PLN:

businessinsider.com.pl/finanse/makroekonomia/zadluzenie-polski-opinia-prof-dariusza-filara/47bkj9j?utm_source=detal_viasg_businessinsider&utm_medium=synergy&utm_campaign=allonet_detal_popularne&srcc=ucs&utm_v=2

The budget's deficit for 2020 is supposed to be 90 billion PLN:

bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Deficyt-za-2020-rok-wyniesie-90-mld-zl-Ministerstwo-Finansow-przedstawilo-wstepne-szacunki-8034693.html

Gumishu, Poland has been developing for years since the fall of communism, you can't say that Poland's economic boom somehow happened suddenly only thanks to VAT revenues... lol

- the gap in all taxes combined was estimated by PiS in 2015 to be in the measure of 60-70 billion - what this article you 'linked' stated was manipulation - VAT fraud has been eliminated (also the contrabanda of fuels from the west by fuel mafias)- VAT evasion is much harder to fight as is income tax evasion


I heard something about Solorz held by the throat because he invested in energy sector and PiS blatantly blackmailed him - Solorz is not a PiS ally which is now to be seen - if Polsat became openly pro-Pis it would loose a lot of viewers so he chose Dorota Gawryluk as the head of news who tries really hard to be objective (which I admire her for)


that's also a manipulation - the global state debt rose by about 82 billion - Poland's debt also includes the debts of municipal authorities of which PiS had little pow

in 2018 the state debt rose by a mere 10 billion and in 2019 13 billion - I'm not sure but as far as I can remember the number were lowest in the history of democratic Poland


all of the European economies shrunk in 2020 - Poland was among the least hit actually


Poland's deficit counted in tens of billions during PO/PSL without any significant social spending because of VAT fraud, VAT gap, fuel smuggling and income tax gap - they did little to avert it - my belief is they were not really willing to because of being chums whith the beneficiaries of those gaps

...you do know about the 2007-2009 economic crisis, right? You know, the same crisis that engulfed Europe and which took until 2014-2015 to really escape from?

PO knew about gaps in taxes and fuel smuggling - they did next to nothing to avert it

tvp.info/44282599/szefernaker-8-mld-zl-rocznie-tracilismy-na-lewym-obrocie-paliwa

tvp.info/43539295/kierunkowano-nas-na-sciganie-legalnych-podmiotow-a-tymczasem-rozwijaly-sie-mafie

Apart from devise the entire JPK system, of course.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jednolity_Plik_Kontrolny - introduced by PO in September 2015.

She is (or was, not sure about now) pro-PiS - I even noticed that, not only my parents, gumishu.


But it was hit, and there's a freaking pandemic, businesses need help, so why instead of burdening private media with another tax (they're hiring many people too, you know) PiS won't cut the social spending - why don't they give 500+ only to those who really need it? I mean, that would be the sane, decent thing to do, for God's sake...

Btw, Poland was among the least hit during the crisis that delph mentioned and during the present crisis:

goldenmark.com/pl/mysaver/zielona-wyspa-kryzys-subprime-w-polsce/

"the current VAT gap has nothing to do with VAT fraud but with VAT evasion which is caused by the rise of black economy where money flows without being reported - some people are affraid now of buying things and services legally - like all those fraudulent doctors and lawyers who cannot prove their income and have to go -an fear electronic VAT fakturas

I haven't said nothing in the shape that PiS has removed all of the VAT gap - however that part of VAT gap (VAT evasion, black economy) is not easy to curb"

this is why i enjoy working with Russians they are masters at vat evasion and dont need no faktury and **** or some u owy. theyre not cheap with their money and value good service or say a good writer or designer unlike the Polish. the Polish are like chinese to work with.

you noticed that she is not a PiS basher if you ask me - your bias prevents you from seeing that she is trying to find truth as is Polsat news branch under her leadership - what is more there a journalists there who were very anti-PiS in the past and somehow Gawryluk haven't fired them so far

I can't find the article now, but basically, it's because 500+ and the pension payments are untouchable now. If they cut them, their support will vanish - so they're pinned into paying those at the cost of education, health, etc. That's why Duda made such a big fuss out of it, and why PiS were scaring voters with threats that PO/Trzaskowski will take away 500+/pension bribes.

The problem is that everyone can see that 500+ is worth less and less every day. My friend owns a private nursery, and just to keep things 'as is', she had to increase fees by nearly 120zł this year to simply stand still because of the increased costs, and she's about to increase the fees by another 20-25zł a month to cover the increased electricity costs.

they can happily add this new tax to the prices of their add time/space which will doublethe positively effect on the budget - the whole action is simply political (and anti-PiS)

Gumishu, where do you think the money comes from? If the costs to advertisers increase, who will pay it? We do. The costs will simply be passed on.

It's exactly the same with the bank tax and the retail tax. The bank tax increased costs to consumers, while the retail tax will do exactly the same.

thank the EU CO2 quotas for that - and the PO government who agreed on the new system of counting the quotas or some such (basically Poland first agreed to be eligible to pay excessive CO2 starting from 1990 or 1989 and Tusk agreed to change that to the detriment of Poland (and to give him a boost to his career in Europe)

Oh really?

Nothing to do with this, of course: bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Nowa-oplata-na-rachunkach-za-prad-Znamy-stawki-8011301.html - which is a tax that PiS have imposed on all Polish electricity users.

of course I understand - I also understand the mechanism by which PiS aims to lessen the burden of the social spending - and I understand why Trzaskowski said: 'Nic co zostało dane, nie zostanie zabrane' (Nothing that was given will be taken away (as for the social spending under PiS) - I just don't find the prospect of PO, PSL or SLD getting power back appealing - imagine big social spending and a renewed VAT fraud, fuel smuggling and a monopoly on media

so yeah - this whole current action is purely political and the argument that PiS wants to shut down hostile media is manipulative - but I guess Paulina would not understand

As you know, they want to suppress independent media.

Gumishu, you're clearly a hardcore PiS supporter, so it's natural that you'd think that. I think you're the one who's biased. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But what do you think about giving 500+ to rich people? Have you read those articles I linked to?


This whole tax is political (anti-non state media) and zwyczajne zdzierstwo too.


Exactly.

wysokienapiecie.pl/34168-ceny-pradu-rosna-przez-oplate-mocowa-ale-nie-koniec-podwyzek/ - read this - opłata mocowa is not a whim of PiS it is there to give Polish energetic system more safety - also the electricity prices in Poland are still lower than the EU average (last I checked Germans pay almost 50 per cent more than us)

once again - seriously read this article (I doubt you ready any of the articles I posted but well..) - tvp.info/43539295/kierunkowano-nas-na-sciganie-legalnych-podmiotow-a-tymczasem-rozwijaly-sie-mafie

if you don't infer from the article that the PO, PSL and others from the so called total opposition are crooks then I don't know what could change your mind