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Previous Poland's government corrupting the media.


jon357 67 | 16,655
10 Feb 2021 #91
This whole tax is political (anti-non state media)

100%. there's no doubt at all about this.
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #92
@gumishu - but well you always hated PiS as long as I can remember so you probably never will change your mind - hatered blinds - that's all I have to say
jon357 67 | 16,655
10 Feb 2021 #93
tvp.info

Did you seriously try to cite the TVP website in a thread on independent media?

Oh, the irony...
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #94
This whole tax is political (anti-non state media) and zwyczajne zdzierstwo too.

the media can happily add the tax to their prices - sure the higher cost of advertising would influence consumer prices a bit that's all - instead they have thrown a tantrum - if this is not political what is - you swallowed it as an attack on the media (as probably millions of others) - I see their move as an attack - and the tax as just another tax
Miloslaw 9 | 2,923
10 Feb 2021 #95
As you know, they want to suppress independent media

Of course, that is what this is all about and I cannot understand anyone that defends that.....they must be anti freedom of speech.
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #96
they must be anti freedom of speech.

read my post above - you swallowed the manipulation too
Paulina 10 | 1,781
10 Feb 2021 #97
but well you always hated PiS

No, not always, there was even one PiS' politician that I actually liked (Past Simple) - Tadeusz Cymański... But after watching one interview with him (after PiS came to power) I realised that even he has authoritarian tendencies and has a peculiar attitude to the rule of law. That was very disappointing and scary, to be honest... And anyway, you don't exactly love PO either, do you? :)))

I see their move as an attack

Posting an open letter to the government on their sites for one day (and losing money from ads as result) is "an attack"? Wow, how "terrible" lol
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #98
but well you always hated PiS

this remark was not meant for you but for delphi

the government on their sites for one day

they want to create an impression that private media in Poland are stiffled - which I explained is a manipulation - which means they are agressively attacking PiS

maybe you weren't in Poland at that time yet delphi but here's a nice glimpse on Poland under SLD rule - SLD is just another arm of the same octopus: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afera_starachowicka
Paulina 10 | 1,781
10 Feb 2021 #99
this remark was not meant for you but for delphi

Try to quote people properly then :P

they want to create an impression that private media in Poland are stiffled - which I explained is a manipulation

It isn't any manipulation - it's a pre-emptive action. Private media in Poland aren't stiffled - yet.This tax hasn't been passed yet. Do you remember the first women's protests concerning abortion during PiS rule? At that time PiS claimed that they have no plans to change the Poland's "abortion consensus", that it's just some nutcases that proposed the changes, that the protesters are exaggerating, blowing things out of proportion, PiS supporters claimed that it's anti-PiS hysteria, etc. And what turned out? That PiS changed the "abortion consensus" after all and the protesters knew what they were doing back then by taking it to the streets.

We've simply learned to expect the worst from PiS - they can't be trusted. And it's based on experience.
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #100
PiS - they can't be trusted. And it's based on experience.

yes - all beneficiaries of 500+ know that PiS can't be trusted

everybody knows that PO, PSL and especially SLD - they can all be trusted: "Pieniędzy nie ma i nie będzie'. 'Nasi eksperci mówią że epidemia minie do września. (września 2020- przypis mój :P) - dlatego nie można przeprowadzić wyborów w maju , no bo te śmiercionośne koperty. 'Nadam ulicy miano Lecha Kaczyńskiego w Warszawie' 'Tablet dla każdego ucznia', 'Znaleźliśmy katarskiego inwestora dla stoczni' etc etc
Paulina 10 | 1,781
10 Feb 2021 #101
yes - all beneficiaries of 500+ know that PiS can't be trusted

If they didn't fulfill that promise (and the one about earlier retirement) they would be quickly kicked out - that was their main kiełbasa wyborcza. My grandma voted for PiS because of that earlier retirement promise - so my parents wouldn't have to work longer.

And you still didn't answer me what you think about 500+ for rich people :) What do you think about it?

everybody knows that PO, PSL and especially SLD - they can all be trusted

Sorry, but why do keep coming back to the past? We live here and now. PiS is screwing up now - not PO, PSL or SLD. Even if, let's say, previous governments weren't trustworthy then PiS being the same or worse is somehow OK? Where is that "good change"?
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #102
still didn't answer me what you think about 500+ for rich people :) What do you think about it?

I have multiple people to reply to in at least two threads now, so please excuse me - what I think of 500+ for rich people - I don't know maybe it's some malicious twist to silence those who oppose it - maybe the law would be deemed unconstitutional by the opposition if it didn't cover every child - how do i know

We live here and now. PiS is screwing up now -

PiS is exactly screwing up now what? and when you look in the past you see what kind of challenges PiS faced/faces - corrupt ministerial clerks, corrupt judges, corrupt special services - or as Mr Bartłomiej Sienkiewicz once remarked - państwo teoretyczne czyli ch... du.. i kamieni kupa

Where is that "good change"

the good change is in the economy (at least before the pandemy) thanks to wallets of millions of once deprived Poles
jon357 67 | 16,655
11 Feb 2021 #103
We live here and now. PiS is screwing up now

Every time they seem to go a step too far.

In the attempt to suppress the media they seem to be following Hungary. After Hungary's step, Radio Free Europe started again with its Hungarian service. It's apparently very popular.

Polish language websites will just site themselves abroad, radio stations will broadcast from Germany on high power transmitters and TV is of course slowly moving online anyway. If PiS start to try and jam radio or block websites/streaming TV, that might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of an international response.
Ironside 50 | 11,131
11 Feb 2021 #104
I look at this 500 plus as a way distributing wealth more evenly. Instead of being absorbed by foreign and domestic gangs or wasted on some BS gov spending.

Let face the current suite of politics and so called elite is not able to fight they way out of the shoe box. Let alone solve layers upon layers of problems and issues that beg to be solved.

Ultimately that 500 plus issue is just another much ado about nothing. Same as TVP or yapping about the RCC. Merry go around and so called opposition is as bad if not worse than PiS.

JK officially gone senile and lost all sense of reality. his creatures with an exemption of Gowin are going from bad to worse and each is fighting each other hopping to end on the top.

None have any chance.
jon357 67 | 16,655
11 Feb 2021 #105
I look at this 500 plus as a way distributing wealth more evenly.

Very much so, but can it be done without gagging the media?

his creatures with an exemption of Gowin

Who is playing the long game.
jon357 67 | 16,655
11 Feb 2021 #106
The first thing that needs doing is to stop TVPiS from both taking taxpayer's money as well as selling advertising to compete with the free media

At the very least, this dodgy "advertising tax" should apply to both state-controlled media as well asindependent media. Otherwise it gives state-owned media a clear advantage.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 772
11 Feb 2021 #107
@jon357
The goal is to simply crush all other media other than state owned. Its simple. The problem they are going to have is collecting tax from those companies that relocate to Slovakia and other countries with more tax friendly environments for media. There are other loopholes to this obvious attack on independent media. Right from some of the best communist playbooks in the 50's.
Lenka 3 | 2,573
11 Feb 2021 #108
Well it seems PiS partner is not going to cooperate

newsweek.pl/polska/polityka/porozumienie-nie-poprze-nowego-podatku-medialnego-gowin-przeciwko-kaczynskiemu/773n322
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
11 Feb 2021 #109
Well it seems PiS partner is not willing to cooperate

I think Gowin knows now that he can count on the people behind him, and that there's very little Kaczyński can do about it. Any attempt to interfere with them or threaten them and Gowin can take down the government.

I wouldn't be terribly shocked if we see a technocratic government with the quiet agreement that Gowin will have control of TVP/Polskie Radio for an upcoming election campaign.
jon357 67 | 16,655
11 Feb 2021 #110
The goal is to simply crush all other media other than state owned ....

That much is very clear.

companies that relocate

Those who can will certainly already have been discussing contingencies of they are practical.
Ironside 50 | 11,131
12 Feb 2021 #111
TVPiS from both taking taxpayer's money

The very idea of Governmental TV could be questioned/ I have a feeling that you question it because PiS is in charge. In that case get over it.

this dodgy "advertising tax

Most of those 'free' media are owned by the foreign capital. It is only right they should pay some tax.
jon357 67 | 16,655
12 Feb 2021 #112
idea of Governmental TV could be questioned/

And should be.

t because PiS is in charge.

No other administration since 1989 has tried to shut down independent media,

Most of those 'free' media are owned by the foreign capital. It is only right they should pay some tax.

It's irrelevant who owns it. And yes, they do pay tax if they make a profit..
Ironside 50 | 11,131
12 Feb 2021 #113
It's irrelevant who owns it.

No it isn't.

if they make a profit..

If they cannot afford to pay taxes they should leave ....

independent media,

Independent from what? and tax them not close them and if that ist their aim, nothing will happen this is PiS and Poland.
By the way they could take away their license if they want to close them so no need for them to go all around.
jon357 67 | 16,655
12 Feb 2021 #114
No it isn't.

Why?

If they cannot afford to pay taxes

They can and do pay tax on their profits. So do all their staff on wages. They also pay for broadcasting licences in the case of broadcasters.

Independent from what?

Read the thread title before burbling out rubbish.
Ironside 50 | 11,131
12 Feb 2021 #115
They can and do pay tax on their profits.

Do they? I'm not sure they do. They say their do but I have heard from a good source something entirely different.

Read the thread title before burbling out rubbish.

There are not independent mediums unless you are talking about a direct gov control. When it comes to foreign owned media I couldn't care less about their status or problems or taxes. They shouldn't be operating in Poland anyways.

Why?

Because they would wield undue influence over public views and sympathies. They could and would (are )sway people to mold Polish gov and Polish laws into a shape much more favorable to their interests! Without any regard for the Polish national interest or for the welfare and wellbeing of the Polish people.
jon357 67 | 16,655
12 Feb 2021 #116
I have heard from a good source

No you haven't.

There are not independent mediums

Yes there are, this is about independent media.

Because they would wield undue influence over public views and sympathies

Like TVPiS tries to do? In your 'opinion', is media obliged to align their editorial policies to whatever your personal view is of 'national interest'?
Ironside 50 | 11,131
12 Feb 2021 #117
No you haven't.

Oh but I have, not about all of them mind you, but it stand to reason if one or two can get away with that all the rest will be doing the same.

Like TVPiS tries to do

Their are ah-les but they are domestics a-les. Poland doesn't need some foreign a-les added to the pot.
jon357 67 | 16,655
12 Feb 2021 #118
Oh but

Unreliable gossip (or just plain fiction), and in any case, tax collection is a matter for the Urząd Skarbowy. Do you imagine they give secret exceptions to companies you don't like?

Poland doesn't need

So you believe in the Communist-era policy on media ownership? Interesting. A true child of the Nomenklatura.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 772
12 Feb 2021 #119
@Ironside
"There are not independent mediums unless you are talking about a direct gov control. When it comes to foreign owned media I couldn't care less about their status or problems or taxes. They shouldn't be operating in Poland anyways."

And all the Polish citizens they employ shouldn't have jobs? And all the taxes, fee's and rent's they pay on properties throughout the country should disappear too? All the money they actually generate for the country is pretty important. State controlled media does not generate any profits or taxes. They needed the 2 billion a year because they operate in deficit every year. They are incapable of operating in a free market economy.

Third world country's control the media. Thats just about all anyone needs to think about. Anyone think Russia is a free country?
Braveheart16 18 | 280
12 Feb 2021 #120
Ironside - ....they would wield undue influence over public views and sympathies. They could and would (are )sway people.....

This is complete nonsense.....you can always switch the TV off or change channels....if the public are influenced or swayed then they are more stupid than anyone first thought.....just look at the propaganda station TVP....Anyone knows that choice is what Europeans want, its that simple, they get choice in other countries why not Poland....and think of the revenue it brings to Poland....the extra tax is all political and an easy and simplistic way for PIS to raise funds to cover up the mess called 500+ (not Covid)...they really could have been more creative or at least learn from other European countries on how to govern effectively.


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