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Previous Poland's government corrupting the media.


jon357 67 | 16,655
10 Feb 2021 #31
PiS are doing this for one reason and one reason only - to destroy independent media

Certainly. This has been clear all along.

It's nothing to do with 500+ (whatever any authoritarian politician pretends) and it's strange that anyone should raise this here.
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #32
What's the problem with a 5% tax?

what's the problem the income from advertising is huge compared to the cost it takes to publish the advertisements - (except maybe from niche media but I can't think of such at the moment) - also I believe (or maybe just hope) that the tax is aimed mainly at Google, facebook and similar
Lenka 3 | 2,573
10 Feb 2021 #33
also I believe (or maybe just hope)

Why? Do you think it will make a dent in their budgets? It will however be a problem to any smaller outlets. Like almost any radio. Or local programs...

Funny thing is- as much as I miss news it never crossed my mind to check TVP outlet
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #34
the tax is aimed mainly at Google, facebook and similar

It won't affect them. They use Irish companies (sometimes Dutch or Luxembourgish), so they won't be obliged to pay it. It's only for companies that are registered in PL - so private media will be heavily affected by it. Think about the small independent newspapers - do you think 5% tax on every złoty earnt from advertising is affordable for them?

and it's strange that anyone should raise this here.

It's standard for PiS supporters. They point at 500+ as being somehow making up for the countless taxes imposed by the government, even though we can all see how prices have risen dramatically.
jon357 67 | 16,655
10 Feb 2021 #35
income from advertising

That's what covers the cost of producing the news, running the TV or radio station, keeping the website going.

PiS just want to close independent media down.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #36
Well, not close down, they just want to bring it under PiS control.

What's frightening is how their supporters see no harm in the media being completely controlled by the government.
mafketis 25 | 9,319
10 Feb 2021 #37
their supporters see no harm in the media being completely controlled by the government

What do you expect from those nostalgic for the PRL Big Daddy State?
SonofHarry
10 Feb 2021 #38
When I was in Poland and saw how the 'Independent' and the PO Goverment media treated the elderly who lost their savings in the amber gold fraud, essentially blaming the victims and diverting any examination of the goverment, well they can go to hell. as well as the morons who read this media.

it never crossed my mind to check TVP outlet

Your loss, you might learn some basic facts.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #39
What do you expect from those nostalgic for the PRL Big Daddy State?

Nothing less, to be honest. The denial is strong, but it's very clear that for their electorate, a return to the PRL wouldn't be a tragedy at all.

who lost their savings

Tell us about the SKOKi, please. Oh and GetBack.

enerad.pl/aktualnosci/afera-skok/
rmf24.pl/fakty/polska/news-wniosek-o-komisje-sledcza-ws-getback-odeslany-do-prawnikow-p,nId,4322523
amiga500 2 | 518
10 Feb 2021 #40
Delph, please show me the articles in pro goverment media that the people who lost their savings in the banks you claim are stupid, and by not doing due diligence it is their fault they lost their savings.

Because that was the disgusting line in PO TVP, Polsat News, TVN24, Newsweek etc during the amber gold fraud perpetrated by ex security services and their PO lackeys in Gdansk.

Polish media needs a shakeup, nothing wrong with taxing big media advertisements in scotland you would be applauding it, but once again hypocrisy.
Lenka 3 | 2,573
10 Feb 2021 #41
the people who lost their savings in the banks you claim are stupid,

Well, they were. It doesn't change the fact they were victims.
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #42
PiS just want to close independent media down.

this is just your speculation based on your personal prejudice - nothing more
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #43
amber gold fraud

Why don't you tell us about the SKOKi and the GetBack scandals? Come on, you're better than this, what happened to the billions that Polish people lost? Why are PiS unwilling to establish a parliamentary commission to investigate what happened there?

dotyczy.pl/skoki-afera-wszechczasow-pochlonely-juz-ponad-5mld-zl-eksperci-twierdza-ze-to-nawet-nie-polowa-strat/4459/

Where's the money?

Polish media needs a shakeup

"Polish media isn't entirely behind PiS, therefore it needs to be shaken up and the management replaced with those who are loyal to the Party."
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #44
SKOKi

there was just one single SKOK that was a scam and that was a SKOK Wołomin which was run by ex military intelligence people - more or less anybody could establish a SKOK

GetBack has nothing to do with PiS appart from the fact that the scandal surfaced under their rule

do you think 5% tax on every złoty earnt from advertising is affordable for them?

yes I believe they can afford them - printing an add that pays 100 PLN costs perhaps 5 PLN
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #45
there was just one single SKOK that was a scam and that was a SKOK Wołomin

People, here we see the classic example of someone who only consumes pro-PiS media.

Tell me Gumishu, which part of this article is factually incorrect? dotyczy.pl/skoki-afera-wszechczasow-pochlonely-juz-ponad-5mld-zl-eksperci-twierdza-ze-to-nawet-nie-polowa-strat/4459/

GetBack has nothing to do with PiS

Really?

Who was responsible for the financial oversight of GetBack? Why did GetBack grow from nothing to a massively overinflated company during the PiS government? And most importantly, why did GetBack sponsor plenty of pro-PiS events?

yes I believe they can afford them - printing an add that pays 100 PLN costs perhaps 5 PLN

And who pays for the journalists, the offices, the transport, etc etc? Santa?
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #46
which part of this article is factually incorrect?

there were a couple of SKOK's who just simply went bankrupt - others have thrived - what's there to misunderstand
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #47
what's there to misunderstand

Can you tell us about the link given? It's really not difficult - is it factual, or is it not?
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #48
dotyczy.pl/skoki-afera-wszechczasow-pochlonely-juz-ponad-5mld-zl-eksperci-twierdza-ze-to-nawet-nie-polowa-strat/445c
człowieku ty nie umiesz samodzielnie myśleć : man you cannot think for yourself - the article claims that PiS didn't allow SKOKi to be supervised by KNF (State Financial Supervisor) - the point is that the problems with SKOKi started during PO rule (according to the article itself) - also if PiS was involved with the affair why didn't PO start a investigative committee in Sejm while claiming so you are just a very bad case of morbidly prejudiced

read this - your article is not factual about SKOK Wolomin - wgospodarce.pl/informacje/57517-skok-wolomin-to-dzielo-agentow-wsi
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #49
the point is that the problems with SKOKi started during PO rule

Because PO no longer allowed the SKOKi to be run in the way that they were previously. It's not exactly a big secret that the whole SKOKi network is a financial mess.

also if PiS was involved with the affair why didn't PO start a investigative committee in Sejm

Because it's a waste of time, as we saw by the Amber Gold and Smoleńsk committees.

read this

wgospodarce.pl/polityka-prywatnosci

Owned by Fratria sp. z o.o. A little bit of internet research reveals - pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fratria_(przedsi%C4%99biorstwo) - which tells us that Fratria sp z o.o. is controlled by Apella SA, which in turn is controlled by SKOK Holding S.à.r.l. in Luxembourg.

Who controls SKOK Holding S.à.r.l. in Luxembourg?
jon357 67 | 16,655
10 Feb 2021 #50
SKOK

You're trying to change the subject with a PiS-like distraction technique. The persecution of independent media by the authoritarian PiS regime has nothing to do with the SKOK scandal.

yes I believe they can afford them - printing an add that pays 100 PLN costs perhaps 5 PLN

Did you think the printing costs of an individual advert are the main expense of any newspaper? Or are you just pretending to be daft?
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #51
The persecution of independent media by the authoritarian PiS regime

what persecution - please be factual about it

wgospodarce.pl/informacje/57517-skok-wolomin-to-dzielo-agentow-wsi
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #52
Or are you just pretending to be daft?

It's economics. Gumishu doesn't want to admit to us that the tax will punish independent media, who won't have the advantage of being handed 2bn yearly in the budget. If TVP doesn't have money, PiS will print it and give it to them. If Gazeta Wałbrzyska doesn't have cash, they're not going to get it from the government. Or if they do get it, it'll come with political conditions - replacing the editor, replacing certain journalists, etc etc.
gumishu 11 | 5,681
10 Feb 2021 #53
doesn't want to admit to us that the tax will punish independent media,

how much does airing of a 30 second spot cost and how much do they charge advertisers for it - care to enlighten me - what is their margin
jon357 67 | 16,655
10 Feb 2021 #54
the tax will punish independent media,

It will close down those independent outlets that operate on a small margin, and those that belong to international companies that as business units only turn small profits will fold.

what persecution

See post 14.
Paulina 10 | 1,781
10 Feb 2021 #55
I don't follow foreign media much (beside some of the US), but I don't remember (or didn't noticed) anything like this before anywhere.

I don't remember anything like that either, but the Western media don't have to stage such protests... And such protests make sense only at the beginning when the independent media are influential enough in the country... In Russia, for example, nie ma już czego zbierać... I remember that at one point the only independent channel was Dozhd and it got evicted and ended up being forced to air on the internet:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dozhd

The only independent media that I know that is left is private radio station "Echo of Moscow". I don't know what's their situation nowadays but they already got one Roskomnadzor warning during the annexation of Crimea in 2014 (a radio station can be closed down if it receives two Roskomnadzor warnings in one year).

I don't know about Hungary, but imagine that if a similar protest would take place in Belarus probably not many people would notice, just like in Russia...

do you have children? if so do you hate the 500+ as well?

At one point I vouched to myself not to write about my personal/romantic life on this forum, so I won't answer the first part of your question. As far as the second part is concerned - I knew from the beginning that 500+ was a mistake that Poland can't afford and that it will bite us in the ass. I just didn't realise how hard it will bite us. At first they were giving away those money to anyone who had one child, no matter the income, btw. All those money that were given away, and all those money given to TVP and to "father" Rydzyk, etc. could be used nowadays to aid the health care and to help all the businesses struggling due to pandemic. PiS was too stupid and short sighted to realise we're not freaking Sweden. Buying votes, power - those were more important for them than the future of the country.

And I wouldn't trade democracy in my country, the rule of law, independent judiciary, free media, etc. for 500 PLN once a month, sorry.

I stand by what I wrote - I HATE those irresponsible, power-hungry morons. It's always the ordinary people who are paying for the mistakes of such people in power. The politicians are great at giving themselves raises even during the pandemic, in case you haven't heard... They won't be the ones to go hungry...

somehow making up for the countless taxes imposed by the government, even though we can all see how prices have risen dramatically

Indeed...

also I believe (or maybe just hope) that the tax is aimed mainly at Google, facebook and similar

No, it isn't. And if it isn't such a problem then why even Polsat, which is pro-PiS nowadays, is taking part in the blackout? Their main channel Polsat and some others from their offer are blacked out all day.

Also:
bbc.com/news/world-europe-56007942

"Recently, Poland's largest state-controlled oil refiner, PKN Orlen, said it was buying the country's leading regional media company, Polska Press, from its German owners, saying it makes sound business sense."

"In their open letter, the private media companies said that while they faced $270m in additional costs because of the levy, public media received twice as much a year from taxpayers."

Btw, after the last presidential election in which the opposition candidate got almost half of the votes, Kaczyński told his party that he's disappointed with the result and that those Poles who didn't vote for Duda should be persuaded that PiS is the right political option. Many wondered if it means that the independent media are going to be targeted...

I don't think this tax will kill off the big stations, but it probably will do that to the smaller ones, local radio stations, etc.

Gumishu, why don't you read the open letter of the private Polish media (you know Polish, right?)? This is a local newspaper in my region - it's been around since I can remember - they're taking part in the protest too (the content of the open letter is the same in all the private media who are taking part):

echodnia.eu/swietokrzyskie/
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
10 Feb 2021 #56
what is their margin

The margin is irrelevant in this case, because the money from this is what pays for the entire media operation.

And more importantly - why do they need to be taxed at all? The Polish companies already pay taxes - so why do you want to tax them again?
jon357 67 | 16,655
10 Feb 2021 #57
how much does airing of a 30 second spot cost

A huge amount, considering the cost of the programme it's in the middle of or between (which is paid for by the ad revenue and nothing else), their offices, their staff costs, the cost of original content, their marketing budget, their very expensive equipment, their transmission licence and a whole host of other things.

Are you genuinely or deliberately naive?
Braveheart16 18 | 280
10 Feb 2021 #58
Paulina- wouldn't trade democracy in my country, the rule of law, independent judiciary, free media, etc. for 500 PLN once a month, sorry.

....or 2000 PLN once a month for some families....possibly more..... the problem also is that high income families also receive 500+ payments who already have the means to raise a family....if anyone should receive payments then low income families should, albeit the allowance should be reduced to 200+ and the difference redirected to the health service.....perhaps the payments should only be limited to the first two children only. It would appear that this has been a complete drain on resources when focus should have centered on the health service....
Strzelec35 28 | 860
10 Feb 2021 #59
id like to collect some of that ****. how do I go about doing it? ill play the crazy card too being an e con deported etc.
Lenka 3 | 2,573
10 Feb 2021 #60
perhaps the payments should only be limited to the first two children only.

Considering it was meant as a procreation booster it would be quite weird.


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