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Poland's post-election political scene


delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Mar 2017 #2,371
Tusk is an SB snitch now?

You really are scraping the barrel Polonius. By the way, why haven't you told us why you tolerate the Polish Ambassador to Germany being a proven SB snitch according to the IPN.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
26 Mar 2017 #2,372
the Polish Ambassador to Germany being a proven SB snitch

Some proven SB snitches are more equal than others, in his case he's apparently received absolution from the Papież PiSiak himself.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
26 Mar 2017 #2,373
what are your thoughts on Rafał Ziemkiewicz mafketis? I know it is completely off the topic now in the thread but I am curious - I hope you know who Rafał Ziemkiewicz is maf.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
26 Mar 2017 #2,374
hope you know who Rafał Ziemkiewicz is maf.

Name doesn't ring many bells.... does quick search... oh. that. guy. Yeah I've seen him maybe read something by him. He keeps terrible company with JKM and the mad attempt to ressurect 19th century nationalism.... a wrongheaded idea.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
26 Mar 2017 #2,375
He keeps terrible company with JKM

what do you mean by company with JKM - he used to be UPR spokesman (the JKM party) but it was long ago - their ways parted since then - nationalism is all well and kicking -and in the place you wouldn't expect it to be - look here - //gloria.tv/video/FdbJNuUJFcj24qyR7foQhKTGZ]
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Mar 2017 #2,376
complete nepotism

Of course nepotism is a Polish invention. It has never appeared in the UK, Italy, Hungary, France, the USA, Germany of Mexico, right? And it was totally unheard of in the SLD and PO regimes, right?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Mar 2017 #2,377
you tolerate

Can you quote me saying so? This is a relatively new revelation. Many TW sntiches have been known since 1992 and they still held positions of authority and ruled the country. And we heard no objections about that incongruity from conspiracy members SLD, PO, PSL, etc. If the ambassador business is true, then there should be no place for such people in the Polish diplomatic corps. Except when PiS started recalling PRL hold-overs, Poland's hilarious poor man's opposition raised a rumpus that people were being deprived of their livelihood, etc., etc. boo-hoo, sob-sob.... Outfrage of convneience?! You seem to aprpove of PO and Petru marching arm in arm with SB torturers and Kijowski saying we should be grateful to the SB for ensuring our security!
mafketis 24 | 9,385
26 Mar 2017 #2,378
nationalism is all well and kicking

Nationalism is fine (I'm very much in favor of some form of moderate nationalism as opposed to multi-culti ghettos).

Some type of nationalism is necessary for the functioning of the nation state (a flawed political system which nevertheless delivered the highest quality of life for the highest number in the history of the world).

Most political elites are in favor of discarding the nation-state model (while maintaining their positions within it - very hypocrytical) for something called the market state (think of all of Europe being London).

But a 19th century model of nationalism (geared to 19th century social and technological infrastructure) isn't going to work in the 21st. The trick is figuring out a viable model to preserve nation state services (education, law, infrastructure) which will be discarded in the coming market state.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
26 Mar 2017 #2,379
But a 19th century model of nationalism

how do you actually ascribe 19th century nationalism to Ziemkiewicz though - because...?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Mar 2017 #2,380
you tolerate

Can you quote me saying so? This is a relatively new revelation. Many TW snitches have been known since 1992 and they still held positions of authority and ruled the country. And we heard no objections about that incongruity from you and conspiracy members SLD, PO, PSL, etc. If the ambassador business is true, then there should be no place for such people in the Polish diplomatic corps. Except when PiS started recalling PRL hold-overs, Poland's hilarious poor man's opposition raised a rumpus that people were being deprived of their livelihood, etc., etc. boo-hoo, sob-sob.... Outrage of convenience?! You seem to approve of PO and Petru marching arm in arm with SB torturers and Kijowski saying we should be grateful to the SB for ensuring our security!
mafketis 24 | 9,385
26 Mar 2017 #2,381
And we heard no objections about that incongruity from you and conspiracy members

Considering that I don't trust TW files more than any other aspect of the PRL I'm not terribly concerned about what names are found there (absent more compelling evidence).

But PiS gets their noses out of joint (placing enormous faith in the honesty of communist record keepers) so ignoring someone who was a TW in their own ranks stinks of hypocrisy.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Mar 2017 #2,382
TW in their own ranks

Name some!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Mar 2017 #2,383
TW in their own ranks

Delph tried to pull the same fast one repeatefdly claiming PiS was populated by "countless" collaborators. Until asked to name a few, and then he hummed and hawed, er, um, well, there's Piotrowicz, and Piotrowicz, and also Piotrowicz... Now the Berlin ambassador has joined the circus for a total count of TWO! You POO lovers should at least get your act together!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
30 Mar 2017 #2,384
Newest poll:

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/7,114871,21570914,najnowszy-sondaz-pis-tylko-o-wlos-przed-platforma.html?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=SM&utm_campaign=FB_Gazeta

PiS: 29%
PO: 27%
Kukiz'15: 10%
Nowoczesna: 8%
SLD: 8%

As it stands, the centrist opposition coalition has 43% of the vote vs 39% for the right.
cms 9 | 1,271
30 Mar 2017 #2,385
Some very interesting articles this week in GW about how PiS is truly packing out state owned companies with hundreds of political appointees - all to be borne by the shareholders of those entities. Similar article today coverin TVP and the chaos there after sackings of respected journalists and technical staff.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
30 Mar 2017 #2,386
Some very interesting articles this week in GW about how PiS is truly packing out state owned companies with hundreds of political appointees - all to be borne by the shareholders of those entities.

I was going to post it, but it's just too much even for me. It's having a negative effect on them, as people are seeing them award themselves high salaries and bonuses despite many of them being absolutely unqualified to do the job.

In a sense, it's PO's failing. If many of these companies had been privatised and taken out of state control, PiS wouldn't have been able to do this. We all knew they were going to do it, and the impact on these companies will be felt for a long, long time.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
1 Apr 2017 #2,387
this week in GW

Always consider the source! Michnik and his rag are bubbling, simmering, steaming with irrational resentment and hatred and no-one can really blame them. From a widely reckoned-with news medium and pace-setter they have deteriorated into a hate sheet with dwindling circulation and declining influence. Maybe Michnik would do better to set up a good, New York-style corned beef and pastrami restraurant in Warsaw.
Wulkan - | 3,250
1 Apr 2017 #2,388
Some very interesting articles this week in GW

Amusing that there are still people who read propaganda rags like GW.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
1 Apr 2017 #2,389
And the chutzpah of the year award goes to...... Andrzej Duda who

"Chciałbym, żeby w tym zakresie Konstytucja RP była w pełni przestrzegana i tak jako prezydent to realizuję"

(quick rough translation)

"I would like for the Constitution of the RP to be observed in this matter and as the president I will do so"

This from one of the henchmen who helped gut the consitution (brinjging shame upon his profession and the office of president) so that a particular party could rule with no legal restrictions. Hypocrisy thy name is Duda!

polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2017-03-31/duda-po-spotkaniu-z-macierewiczem-dyskutowalismy-na-temat-kwestii-ktore-ja-uznalem-za-najwazniejsze
cms 9 | 1,271
1 Apr 2017 #2,390
The information on PIS using the TKM philosophy of governing is easy to verify. In the case of Energia for instance you simply need to visit the company website, check the members of the Supervisory Board and notice that they are correct.

Millions of zloty of shareholders, viewers, consumers and taxpayers money is being used to support an army of small town Soltys and gentleman farmers while they wreck years of steady growth.

The govt has also just put in a billion zloty order for 3 new planes to ferry these unqualified fools from Warsaw to their private houses every weekend.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
1 Apr 2017 #2,391
The information on PIS using the TKM philosophy of governing is easy to verify.

These people don't want to verify it. Why, I don't know, but it's remarkably hypocritical to criticise others for it and then turn a blind eye to the abuses carried out by PiS.

And the chutzpah of the year award goes to...... Andrzej Duda

Apparently he's been almost completely sidelined by Macierewicz, with generals and other high ranking officers prohibited from meeting and talking with Duda. The funniest thing is that his claims that the Poland spent 2.01% of GDP on defence is an easily verifiable lie - it includes the money for new planes. The two big ones that were supposed to come....haven't been ordered.
idem - | 135
1 Apr 2017 #2,392
Amusing that there are still people who read propaganda rags like GW.

From my observation the most balanced paper in UK is The Times. ( from right wing extremes like Daily Express or Daily Mail to rather left wing deluded Trotsky's Guardian).Does it exist equivalent to British Times it in Poland now?

To be honest I usually read Dziennik Polski when I am in Poland but it is rather local Krakow paper.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
1 Apr 2017 #2,393
or Daily Mail

In fact is not the right wing paper. it left wing like in fascism.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
2 Apr 2017 #2,394
Just to back up the poll I mentioned above, here's the projected numbers of seats based on that result.

PiS: 181
PO: 163
K: 48
SLD: 35
N: 32
MN:1

Or in coalition terms - PiS+Kukiz'15 on 229, PO+SLD+N+MN on 231.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
2 Apr 2017 #2,395
Or in coalition terms - PiS+Kukiz'15 on 229, PO+SLD+N+MN on 231.

You don't mind me reminding you that you predicted before the last election that PiS had no chance on governing alone?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
2 Apr 2017 #2,396
And it was only through a huge amount of disqualified votes that they managed to govern alone. I still think having 20% of disqualified votes on a 50% turnout was terrible for democracy.

Either way, it means that right-wing politics are down about 8% based on seats from the last election.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
2 Apr 2017 #2,397
I still think having 20% of disqualified votes on a 50% turnout was terrible for democracy.

you want 5 or 7 parties' goverments like it;s goind to happen in Holland now?

Either way, it means that right-wing politics are down about 8% based on seats from the last election

we will find out on the election day
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
2 Apr 2017 #2,398
you want 5 or 7 parties' goverments like it;s goind to happen in Holland now?

Sure, why not? It forces moderate, consensual politics.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
2 Apr 2017 #2,399
we had this in Poland - it didn't work
mafketis 24 | 9,385
2 Apr 2017 #2,400
huge amount of disqualified votes

Deceptive language! I'm no fan of PiS (massive, massive understatement) but having an electoral threshhold is a good thing. Completely proportional representation was a party gift of the communists that clogged up the first few post commie governments. Comparisons with the Netherlands are not apt.

There may be a time to elminate the threshhold but now is not it.

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