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Poland's post-election political scene


mafketis 24 | 9,384
7 May 2016 #1,831
The mangy curs may bark and growl but the caravan moves forward nonetheless.

The rule of law is dead, but rule by party leader continues in the glorious tradition of the PRL.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
7 May 2016 #1,832
tradition of the PRL.

There are far more ex-PZPR, SB and TW (PRL-era secret informers) in the ranks of the KODerasts than in PiS. Of the parliamentary parties, the most ex-PZPR and TW types (some 30) are found amognst the PO's MPs. So you can badmouth PiS all you want, but the facts are against the trough-defenders of the postcommunsit round-table clique.
Jamaika
7 May 2016 #1,833
"Poland's post-election political scene"
Hey. I'm from Poland.
Recently I became involved in politics at the election. I hear all the time one slogan PO. "Why have Polonia the right to vote abroad?"

or
"Stop complaining. How not like in the country, it get out. The world is big and friendly."
Regarding industry, that it does not and will not be long in Poland. The SLD/PO/PSL preached motto "globalization". How wonderful is the industry in China. The model to follow is the character of Margaret Thatcher. This has resulted that here built large supermarkets Chinese, German, Turkish. These are sheds with corrugated iron logistics companies the so-called "pillars" along highways and a whole business based on margin products from China, India and Vietnam. No one with this is not fighting. One big mafia. The assembly rooms somewhere in the box and a cheap labor force for 7zł/h Gross. I read recently that the processing of fish, strawberries is more profitable in Poland than in China.

What makes me sad as voters PIS. A big naivete Waszczykowskiego was invitation the Venice Commission. I think that his days are numbered.
I am puzzled trips the president Duda to the China. The China have build cheap highways, airports, salvage "LOT" and increase the flow the Chinese goods. For me, this is the second foreign policy Tusk.

The worst in all this, that I hear from tourists. "What developed country?"
Only that I am a beggar and I look forward on the upheaval.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
7 May 2016 #1,834
What supermarkets are ... Chinese or Turkish in Poland? ;). No. 1 is Biedronka, which is Portuguese and then you have all the French supermarkets (Carrefour, Auchan, Simply (owned by Auchan but much better), Leclerc, Intermarché.... ) and then Tesco which is from UK but which could be on their way out of Poland as I have read here....
Jamaika
7 May 2016 #1,835
Supermarkets chinese: "Wólka Kossowska, Białystok, Śląsk, Maximus, Targi Poznańskie."
In Warsaw main street "Krakowskie Przedmieście": only pub Turkish, pubs Indian, suchi.
However, in the TV: Polish cuisine is wonderful.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
7 May 2016 #1,836
Where in Warsaw do you have Chinese supermarkets? I mean real "super' or "hyper" markets not 40 sqm joints ;)
Ironside 50 | 10,939
7 May 2016 #1,837
And the Polish pro-democracy movement goes from strength to strength...

Thank you for your response. I'm asking because I can see there banner that spells POBUDKA and I surely know nothing according to you but I know enough to know that that organization has nothing to do with KOD or PO or other forces you are supporting. Would I be right that your picture shows those 1000?

1,000 Polish nationalists and followers of right-wing Catholic groups

?
I can say that there on the picture are more people than 1000 even 20 000. I think europeonline got it the other way around and there was 240 000 people from so called right wings groups and only 1000 of those commies that are going against grain.

Hence we have that picture explained.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
7 May 2016 #1,838
According to tv stations from several European countries that I can watch, some 240,000 (= big for a country like Poland) against government. One Polish retiree taking part to the demo said to a Euronews journalist that she was demonstrating because she refuses to have fundamentalism in Poland, what is to be expected with PiS.
nothanks - | 640
7 May 2016 #1,839
PIS will be re-elected. Unless the previous party drops their EU support
InPolska 11 | 1,821
7 May 2016 #1,840
Poles support EU only for money since they refuse EU's directives!
gumishu 11 | 5,605
7 May 2016 #1,841
One Polish retiree taking part to the demo said to a Euronews journalist that she was demonstrating because she refuses to have fundamentalism in Poland,

a completely confused human being
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
7 May 2016 #1,842
What supermarkets are

What supermarkets are Polish? Poland must really be a second or thrid-rate country if Poles are unable to patronise their own country's supermarket chains!

Soros, Sachs, Balcerowicz, Michnik, Spinelli and their ilk saw to it over the past 27 years that nothing indigenously Polish should ever emerge,

240,000

That means that 36 million 760 thousand DID NOT make fools of themselves ranting and chanting and waving idiotic placards and pretending that democracy is threatened and Poland's EU memebrship is endnagered. Most of the haspless marchers were useful idiots taken advantage of by shrewd and crafty politicians hoping the chaos will faciltate their return to power.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
7 May 2016 #1,843
Yes, Pol! And I believe that Poles are only responsible for all this. Instead of running away (how many millions of Poles outside of Poland? I don't know, 20, 30, 40 millions?) why don't they stay home and roll up their sleeves. Poland is still by very far the no.1 country in Europe for emigration.

I often hear Poles saying that they don't have the means to start big companies. I am sure that some Poles could do a lot but in order to do so, they would need to be in Poland and work for Poland.

Pol; 240,000 is a lot for a country like Poland with no tradition to demonstrate. It is just like the 12 to 14,000 who particupate to the Equality March every year, which is a lot in a country like Poland. Numbers can be intepreted in many ways ;)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
7 May 2016 #1,844
don't have the means to start big companies.

They might if the post-communist govts, ratehr than sell off Poland's industrial assets for a song, had launcehd a major pro-entrepreneurial campaign to educate Poles in the business arts, send them to training abroad, bring trainers in to train them at home and offered tax breaks and other incentives to help them start up businesses. Instead, Poland has paid foreigners to invest in Poland and that inlcudes the recent Daimler deal.
mafketis 24 | 9,384
7 May 2016 #1,845
campaign to educate Poles in the business arts, send them to training abroad, bring trainers in to train them at home and offered tax breaks and other incentives to help them start up businesses

It would have been nice to do that if there had been money and time for it. There was neither. Poland and almost all Polish concerns were broker than broke.

Were mistakes made? Of course. Were revisionist fantasies possible? No.
Crow 146 | 9,122
7 May 2016 #1,846
This isn`t good people. These protests are orchestrated from outside of Poland. i am more then ever convinced that all what now happening in Poland on the streets, represent result of desperate Anglo action at the moment when they understood that they losing control over Poland. i must say, that is development that i expected to happen

i can tell you that Serbian media writes about Poland a lot of these days >> POLJSKA KLJUČA Stotine hiljada ljudi na 2 mitinga u Varšavi: Zemlja EU koja je PODELJENIJA OD SRBIJE (translation of title: POLAND IN TURMOIL Hundreds of people on 2 protests in Warsaw: EU country that is DEVIDED MORE THEN SERBIA

Source: Blis > Third most popular Serbian online informer (also have printed newspaper edition)
blic.rs/vesti/svet/poljska-kljuca-stotine-hiljada-ljudi-na-2-mitinga-u-varsavi-zemlja-eu-koja-je/mknz1f8

Considering development of situation, i hope, i pray, that would in combined action and effort, two nations that were and are historically loyal to Poland and to Poles, Hungary and Serbia, finally make a move. Combined action of Hungary and Serbia can have tremendous impact on European and world politics. Combined action on behalf of Poland and all our mutual interests.

Poljska! Poljska! Poljska!
mafketis 24 | 9,384
7 May 2016 #1,847
My summary of every Crow post ever:

blah blah blah Mad crazy Serbian nonsense, blah blah blah

close?
Crow 146 | 9,122
7 May 2016 #1,848
Mad Serbians would fu** all who are curious. That`s closer.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
7 May 2016 #1,849
One Polish retiree taking part to the demo said to a Euronews journalist that she was demonstrating because she refuses to have fundamentalism in Poland

The "protests" are mainly about keeping Poland a colony run by foreign agents of influence, people taking part in it are either political operative & "NGOs" parasites that never had a real job or confused individuals like the old fool you mentioned. It's not that Germany or France want Poland to become a rich and influential country, why would they need competition ? It's far better to have a cheap labour reservoir and a market where they can dump their lower quality products even If nominally "France & Germany" are losing financially. That's because for Carrefour, VW and all, that's a great business and that's what matters.

What Pierre and Klaus think about it is irrelevant in these "great democracies", same like their opinion on EUR and most other things. It's pretty much the same pattern as with colonialism in previous centuries, just with better make-up this time. England had to finance huge navy and army to keep the Negroes down but East India Company etc. were ripping off the huge profits. This time Pierre and Klaus might be losing some of their tax money but they don't really go to Jasiu and Stasiu but to Carrefour, VW and all operating in Poland as most of "EU funds for Poland" for the past 8 years had been distributed to foreign companies hence the "protests" to bring it back. It's not Poland vs Germany or anything like that, it's "elites" vs people and the whole trick is that many of the little folks get convinced that they are a part of "elites", to make themselves feel better, and serve as useful idiots of real "elites" that are no more than top 0.1% of the society, not top 35% - that's not any "elite", that's lower middle class at best.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
7 May 2016 #1,850
there had been money

Had there been such a programme, the US would have surely helped bankroll it, but no such plans were even considered.
Poland's assets could have been pooled (KGHM, refineries, shipyards, collieries, Cegielski, FSO, FSC Ursus, etc.) to form a mixed state-private Polish Captial Consortium which could have bought some of the mroe promising adn modernisable plants Balcerowicz was selling off to foreigners. Not all were prime proeprty but some could have been modernised with funds from the Polish Capital Consoritum. Anotherr thing which Balerowicz's sell-off obsession plan did not consider.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
8 May 2016 #1,851
What a day.

It's funny as hell watching all these PiS supporters resort to abuse and childish insults as well as trying to cover up just how many people were on the streets, but there's plenty of video evidence that shows that there was a huge amount of people out there. Reuters wrote that the crowd stretched for 3km, AFP wrote about record turnouts and Die Welt estimated 250,000.

What makes the whole thing hilarious is the web chat with Kaczyński organised at exactly the same time. Anyone with any basic understanding of politics can see that it was an attempt to divert PiS voters away from what else might be shown on TV - it's actually hilarious how bad it is from a propaganda point of view. It's even more painful to see how TVP Info spent the time focusing on Kaczyński and not on something genuinely newsworthy.

Still, hilarious to see that the counter-demonstration only picked up 2000 at the most. PiS had a chance to mobilise their supporters on the streets at the same time - why didn't they? Is it because after the disaster of the 13th December march, they know that they simply can't get people out there anymore?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
8 May 2016 #1,852
Reuters wrote

AFP wrote

Die Welt estimated

And overwhelming majority of Poles didn't give a flying feck.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
8 May 2016 #1,853
It's even more painful to see how TVP Info spent the time focusing on Kaczyński and not on something genuinely newsworthy.

what was newsworthy about the demonstration - there were demonstrations before and nothing happened
for me they could march every weekend 0 it doesn't matter

and well Kaczyński on czat is much more newsworthy to me
mafketis 24 | 9,384
8 May 2016 #1,854
Had there been such a programme, the US would have surely helped bankroll it, but no such plans were even considered.

Because it would take a lot of time and money to develop such a program and, again if you've forgotten, there was no time or money.

Think of it like this: Your house is on fire. You can either a) dump a few thousand gallons of water on it right now (probably causing some water damage as well as fire damage) or b) create an elaborate plan of chemical fire retardents that would take two weeks to put together.

a) or b)?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
8 May 2016 #1,855
Die Welt estimated 250,000

I see kraut media are more reliable in your books than the Polish police who estimated 45,000 idiots on parade. The hilarious thing is the number of useful idiots who think they are somehow defending democracy which is not threatened if they can spew their hate speech in the streets with total impunity. They are serviing as vebral cannon fodder for the bloated political ambitions of the Schetynas and Petrus. Komorowski's presence clearly illustrated the resentment of those removed from power by the Polish nation.
Harry
8 May 2016 #1,856
kraut media are more reliable in your books than the Polish police who estimated 45,000 idiots on parade.

Nice of you to post casual racism yet again, and on the Lord's day too. As for the Polish police, its sad to see them falling back into the ways of the commie era when they simply parroted whatever blatant lies the regime told them to tell. Here's proof they're lying: wyborcza.pl/wyborcza/10,105226,20036411,najwieksza-demonstracja-w-polsce-w-70-sekund.html
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
8 May 2016 #1,857
blatant lies

...And nasal-voiced lady mayor is the leader of the PO-controlled town-hall clique, not the mayor of all Warsovians. She is notorious for blatantly inflating marcher figures when the marchers fit her agenda. The opposite is true whenever Solidarność protesters or Independence Day Polish patriots march. Fortunately council elections are not too far off and msot likely she will get swept from power like the remaining Platformer scamsters. Her family are known for their shady dealings involving ex-Jewish real estate. R U 1 2?

Krauts are not a race, so how can anything relating to them be racist?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
8 May 2016 #1,858
how many millions of Poles outside of Poland? I don't know, 20, 30, 40 millions

Born in Poland? I would say approximately between 3 to 5 millions. Some of them are living outside Poland temporary.
I think that you as another French-speaking bookkeeper for shady deals 'Junkier' or whatnot are familiar with shady and creative numbers.
Those people who identify themselves as Polish or of Polish origin outside Poland amount to about 22 millions. Those are people born and/or raised in foreign countries and they exist in those countries as a fully fledged citizens of those countries, so I don't see a reason to bring them into all that.

Given Poland's troubled history number of 4 millions out of 37 millions doesn't strike me as a particularly great percentage.

240,000

Seems like German press could learn something about providing true information at least when it comes to numbers adding imaginary 200 000 to 40 000 is a bit excessive.

Well at least they misinform an lie in style - Soviet style.

Krauts are not a race, so how can anything relating to them be ra

Progressivism has a new, or not that a new definition of racism,it is all and any generalization about social groups, other ethnicities, all and sundry minorities of all kinds and shape that can be interpreted as offensive.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
8 May 2016 #1,859
No, I mean what you call "Polonia" and who claim to be "Polish". I guess it's minimum 20 million (already over 1 million in France, the first ones where the "elite" in the 19th century, about same or a bit more in Germany and in GB, + a few hundreds of thousands in each European country + other continents), yes minimum 20 millions people. When people are immigrants themselves it would be expected to be somewhat tolerant towards others but it is not the case with MOST Poles, who seem to be genetically full of hatred. Not very ... "christian" to be full of hatred!

(well, going outside now so continue without me)
nothanks - | 640
8 May 2016 #1,860
In terms of immigrants: Poles are one of the most likely Europeans to associate and even date out of race. Try finding Northern Europeans or Germanics that do the same. It is far less likely. I would argue that Poles are the best European immigrants because of how well we adapt/give up our ancestry. So I disagree with your assessment. I would wager you have not befriended Northern European/Germanic immigrants so gotten a taste of their real feelings. Poles are simply more upfront and honest.

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