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Poland's post-election political scene


cms 9 | 1,271
5 May 2016 #1,801
The land reform Adrian is talking about is having some interesting repercussions - I have a modest loan using our modest farmland as collateral. A few days ago I got a letter from Pekao (not a phone call which would have been polite) telling me I need to find new collateral as the farmland has gone down in value and is no longer liquid.

So after some thought I decided to repay the loan but talking with neighbors it seems many have had similar letters / discussions and not everyone is able to find cash or other collateral at short notice. In some cases loans have been spent on Mercs but often on home improvements or on agricultural machines and facilities which are required to meet EU standards.

So again PiS decides to implement a law without thinking through the effect on its core voters. Of course the banks are only too happy to use this as a chance to embarrass the govt and give them a black eye. End result - less spending power for rural Poles.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 May 2016 #1,802
President Andrzej Duda

Poland's best ever head of sttae, President Andrzej Duda, has signed into law a bill providing free medication to the elderly. The ruling pro-Polish Law and Justice camp have thus made good on yet another pledge made to the Polish nation in last year's election campaign. The law, due to go into effect on 1st September, will entitle those 75 and over to free medications, foodstuffs required for health-related nutritional needs and medical devices.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
5 May 2016 #1,803
And prices on those items will increase for the rest of the population.... (remember TANSTAAFL)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 May 2016 #1,804
will increase

Nitpicking again? You are the classic pessimist/negativist always on the look-out for the downside of things.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
5 May 2016 #1,805
It's clear that PiS has no one to tell them the economic rules of gravity, so the failure of their policies will be all the more of a surprise when it inevitably happens.

You might want to still live on an economic flat earth, but I'm on the globe.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 May 2016 #1,806
on the glob

Does being "on the globe" have to mean ruthless, cut-throat capitalism? PiS resepresent a different, more people-friendly version: market economy with a human face. Ask not what will serve only blood-sucker investors but what will serve the Polish nation as a whole. Morawiecki means foreign investments such as the planned Daimler engine works YES, but also efforts to promote Polish enterpreneurship and indigenous brands. The Morawiecki Plan will be a milestone along the road of returning Poland's now neo-colonial economy to the Polish people.
cms 9 | 1,271
5 May 2016 #1,807
PiS budget already has a made huge holes in the public finances and this will just add to it. They are miles away from market economics thinking - the closest lodestone they have is Gierek who also handed out pork to the provinces and bankrupted the country.

God only knows why an intelligent man like Morawiecki has hitched his wagon to PiS
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 May 2016 #1,808
God only knows why an intelligent man like Morawiecki has hitched his wagon to PiS

There's plenty of open speculation that Morawiecki will demand the PM job sooner rather than later, which may explain everything. Unlike Szydło, he's also got the contacts and the know-how to deal with Kaczyński. He owes nothing to him, unlike other marionettes.

Morawiecki means foreign investments such as the planned Daimler engine works YES

Not keeping up with the news, are you? It's been made pretty clear that the Daimler engine works will require substantial state aid and a very favourable taxation regime - in other words, PiS are doing exactly what every other government has done.

has signed into law a bill providing free medication to the elderly.

What you're not mentioning is that the law only provides for around 1.20zł for every person over 75. That's not going to provide much medicine.

market economy with a human face.

Reminds one of the old "socialism with a human face" that some promoted within the Warsaw Pact.

PiS budget already has a made huge holes in the public finances and this will just add to it.

As I keep saying, Kaczyński is economically illiterate. He's never worked a day in the real world - so we shouldn't be terribly surprised.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 May 2016 #1,809
with a human fa

And you, of course, are all for exploitative capitalism with an inhuman face to maintain Poland's neo-colonial status on a foreign leash. That's a well-known fact

about your psyche and value system.

Daimler engine works

So you admit we're dealing with another German bloodsucker wishing to exploit Poland and asking Poland for a helping hand to more easily achieve that. That is what your beloved capitalism is all about.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 May 2016 #1,810
I'm not the one that's agreeing to it, Polonius. I find it funny that PiS went on and on about foreign companies exploiting Poland, and yet here we are - the Deputy PM has happily signed up to essentially give a German company favourable tax conditions and cash.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 May 2016 #1,811
PiS

PiS has never closed the door to foreign investments. Polish industry can learn a thing or two from high-tech companies like Daimler who plan to build ultra-modern works in Jawor. PiS are more wary of foreign bankers and retail chains, as well they should be. The Satanders, Citibanks, Raffaisens, Tescos, Leroys, Bierdonkas, Carrefours, etc, are channelling huge profits to their HQs abroad. .
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 May 2016 #1,812
Polish industry can learn a thing or two from high-tech companies like Daimler who plan to build ultra-modern works in Jawor.

How can Polish industry compete against foreign companies that benefit from tax breaks and large amounts of state aid?

I don't see Germany providing such deals for Polish companies, so why are PiS handing them a large amount of cash and allowing them to crowd out any domestic Polish engine producer?
mafketis 24 | 9,385
5 May 2016 #1,813
are channelling huge profits

Once more showing your PRL colors. I can guarantee none of those firms operate on the huge profit margins you seem to think they do. That's an old commie cliche that you've fallen for.

Embrace capitalism (terrible at times but better than the alternatives).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 May 2016 #1,814
I can guarantee none of those firms operate on the huge profit margins you seem to think they do. That's an old commie cliche that you've fallen for.

From a quick look, Tesco are making no more than 3.5% profit on their revenue in Poland, which hardly seems excessive.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
5 May 2016 #1,815
Tesco are making no more than 3.5% profit on their revenue in Poland

creative book keeping?
mafketis 24 | 9,385
5 May 2016 #1,816
no more than 3.5% profit on their revenue in Poland, which hardly seems excessive

I'm sure it's excessive to the PRL minded supporters of PiS. In the early 90's I knew of a case of a landlord who'd agreed to rent space to an entrepreneur for X zloties and then he figured that with the profits the business would be making Y number of zloties and then demanded that as the new rent (apparently he expected the full proceeds and the business owner to moonlight with something else to make ends meet).

I'd hoped such primitive backward economic illiteracy had been stamped out but .... voila! It's alive and well on this forum.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 May 2016 #1,817
creative book keeping?

Retail margins. You need to sell a lot to turn a small profit, because the sector is so competitive. Nothing unique to Poland.

I'm sure it's excessive to the PRL minded supporters of PiS.

I imagine it would only be acceptable if the business was actually making no profit, or even losing money to make sure that those greedy owners can't benefit.

I'd hoped such primitive backward economic illiteracy had been stamped out but .... voila! It's alive and well on this forum.

Not just on this forum, sadly. People still haven't figured out that the freedom to run a business means that businesses also have freedom to fail.
nothanks - | 640
5 May 2016 #1,818
London just elected a Muslim Mayor. Oh my, it's all gonna fall apart in my lifetime!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
5 May 2016 #1,819
handing them a large amount of cash

Because Poland already lost out on Jaguar, Hyundai, Suzuki and other companies which located elsewhere where they got a better deal. Beggars can't be choosers, but gradually when the Morawiecki Plan develops, the situation should improve. He is the only post-PRL-era economist that has specifically mentioned the creation of indigenous Polish entrepreneruship and brands. All the others ignored those questions entriely.

favourable tax conditions and cash.

Daimler could have located in Hungary, Czechia, Slovakia, Lithuania, Romania or elsehwere. They are all trying to lure Western investors. At least that does produce somr new jobs -- 1,500 in Jawor in Daimler's case.
chlopek2
5 May 2016 #1,820
Ironside Yesterday, 22:48 #1,908

proposing to arm the ONR
That is an error, every willing Pole should be armed. Guns should be sold on the every street corner.


That must rank as one of the stupidest comments ever written on this forum.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
5 May 2016 #1,821
That must rank as one of the stupidest comments ever written on this forum.

Bugger off slave! Nobody is forcing you to buy a gun.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
5 May 2016 #1,822
I don't see Germany providing such deals for Polish companies, so why are PiS handing them a large amount of cash and allowing them to crowd out any domestic Polish engine producer?

WTF ? You "democrats" are incredible, first you cry how PiS will chase out foreign investors and once it's been proven to be total nonsense, you come up with totally opposite thing. I guess If Kaczyński said homo "marriages" are a good idea, 3 seconds later you would show up yelling that he is destroying family values. Dude, just like they are good immigrants and not so good immigrants, there are good and not so good foreign investments. This one is surely better than 99% others including those cheap labour Amazon warehouses you were so exited about. Which "domestic Polish engine producer" ? If there was any, would they put it into the vehicles of Mercedes instead of their own ? Give me a break.

Tesco are making no more than 3.5% profit on their revenue in Poland

If you has a clue about business, you would know that these days profit rate is pretty much a matter of management's decision.
AdrianK9 6 | 369
5 May 2016 #1,823
That is an error, every willing Pole should be armed. Guns should be sold on the every street cor

You realize that the Swiss government actually wants every citizen to have a gun in their home in the event a tyrannical government takes over? Yet there's hardly any murders. Guns are a great things... I personally have several.

The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 34 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations

wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
Brief summary...
chlopek2
5 May 2016 #1,824
Bugger off slave! Nobody is forcing you to buy a gun.

.....I don't need a gun to protect myself, I'll just borrow your tinfoil hat if I may. It obviously works for you.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
7 May 2016 #1,825
PiS

For the first time ever, Poland's greatest living statesman, Jarosław Kaczyński, will be fielding questions on Facebook at 13.00 on Saturday.
Feel free to submit questions: fb.com/pisorgpl
NOTE: Tag-team members please go to Google Translate to formulate your queries.

Jarosław Kaczyński

"Those who are marching today purportedly in defence of democracy are the same people who wanted to impose on Poland the mass acceptance of migrants," said Jarosław Kaczyński.

He was referring to the IDIOTS ON PARADE who are disrupting normal traffic, inconveniencing citizens unfortunate enough to live along the parade route and costing the taxpayer a pile to cover the cost of policing and clean-up. But above all. contrary to their intentions, they are only proving that democracy is not threatened in Poland, since they are free to hold their noisy, disruptive, rag-tag demos undistrubed. And there is no chance of achieving the real reason motivaitng the KOD leadership -- to re-instal the failed elites to what they regard as their rightul position of power, privilege and influence.
jon357 66 | 17,068
7 May 2016 #1,826
That must rank as one of the stupidest comments ever written on this forum

Spot on. Never, in all the decades I've spent in Poland (coincidentally ones which IS has spent outside Poland) have I heard anybody, eve suggest any such thing.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
7 May 2016 #1,827
Poland's greatest living statesman

Who is thinking of reviving yet another PRL idea: Adults who want to emigrate should have to compensate the state (which has no appropriate job for them) for their education...

Statesman shmatesman, the man is a commie through and through. His problem with the PRL wasn't communism but that the wrong faction of commies was in charge.
jon357 66 | 17,068
7 May 2016 #1,828
Looks like a handful of PiS nutters:

More than 1,000 Polish nationalists and followers of right-wing Catholic groups gathered in Warsaw at midday Saturday to demonstrate against perceived EU interference in national politics.

were upstaged by the moderate majority:

Counter rallies by backers of the 28-member bloc attracted around 240,000 people, according to the city administration, in what has been the largest public demonstration since Poland's national-conservative government came to power.

en.europeonline-magazine.eu/1st-leadgovernment-opposition-united-in-240000-strong-pro-eu-march-in-warsawby-eva-krafczyk-dpa_454224.html
And the Polish pro-democracy movement goes from strength to strength...



Ironside 50 | 10,939
7 May 2016 #1,829
And the Polish pro-democracy movement goes from strength to strength...

Could you tell whose gathering is captured on the attached picture?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
7 May 2016 #1,830
attracted around 240,000 people, according to the city administration,

The pro-PO city administrtion has regularly inflated KODéraste demo figures. The police estimate only a fraction of that inflated figure, and they should know. Anyway, a costly clean-up at the taxpayer's expense is now under way and what did all the chanting and ranting achieve? Absolutely nothing: nichts, nic, rien de tout, nada, niczewo, zilch! The "good-change" government marches ahead to create the Poland of the nation's dreams. The "nachapani" skimmed, scammed and stole to their hearts' content for 8 years, now it's time for the "wyjebani" to speak up. The mangy curs may bark and growl but the caravan moves forward nonetheless.

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