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Poland's post-election political scene


mafketis 24 | 9,384
4 Mar 2016 #1,261
usualy underpaying and/or mistreating their Polish employees

any evidence for that claim besides the old 'cashiers wearing pampers' urban legend?
Lagging - | 2
4 Mar 2016 #1,262
In Scandinavia the tone is about Polish funding, as all Nordic countries are Net contributors to EU, and at the same time wants distribution in the migration policies. Victor Orban states that it is nothing to worry about as budget is set until 2020. I wonder how a Brexit would affect that budget though as UK also is a net contributor. Would not the budget have to be revised? Also chance for early elections in Sweden, another net contributor. There are still a lot of things that can happen outside Poland which might affect the EU budget which was about 4% of the Polish GDP in 2014. The reforms set now are on basis of: strong GDP growth, cont. FDI, EU funding maintains on budget, Strong global economy figures, cont. sell of Polish bonds. Well we will see how long the strong rhetoric lasts.
mafketis 24 | 9,384
5 Mar 2016 #1,263
at the same time wants distribution in the migration policies.

It would have been nice to have some distribution in the decision making process. There was none, Germany and Sweden went their own way, got in way over their head and started trying to instill guilt about other countries not helping. They might bully some other countries into compliance but there's no way Poland will feel guilty about not helping more in this case.

We all make the bed we must lie in,
And tuck ourselves into it too.
And if somebody kicks, that will be a young angry Iraqi,
And if someone gets kicked, then that will be a European woman who never knew what hit her...

(apologies to Herr Brecht)
milky 13 | 1,657
5 Mar 2016 #1,264
there's no way Poland will feel guilty

Thats the problem. Shameful time for Poland.
mafketis 24 | 9,384
5 Mar 2016 #1,265
No. Poland has a survival sense that is sorely lacking in places like West Germany.

If the refugees were properly vetted closer to Syria then that might be appropriate to help but the hundreds of thousands (soon to be millions) flooding in now are mostly not from countries that are entitled to refugee status and they're causing far more problems than they are worth in the places that have been foolish enough to take them in.

You might not have thought Cologne was any big deal but it's the tip of the iceberg about what's going on.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
5 Mar 2016 #1,266
as all Nordic countries are Net contributors to EU,

Yes, every country in the EU is bragging about that. I wonder when all that money go in the end. Has someone been stealing them and lying to the public? I wouldn't be surprised.

Shameful time for Poland.

Nah, shame on you. What other moniker on PF are you using? Does it contain H by any chance?
Harry
5 Mar 2016 #1,267
I wonder when all that money go in the end.

I invite you to visit my country: if you come here you'll soon see what we are spending the billions the EU gives us on.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 Mar 2016 #1,268
Another day, and possibly the best piece of news yet.

WARSAW-Officials in Washington are putting pressure on Poland to end a constitutional crisis [...] U.S. diplomats visiting Poland recently told government officials that they expected Poland to implement recommendations by Europe's top international human-rights organization

wsj.com/articles/u-s-presses-poland-to-end-constitutional-rift-1457142901

As I said all along, you don't tell Senator McCain to get lost like Szydło did. Poland now can look forward to NATO backing off from increasing her presence in Poland, with neighbouring states likely to benefit instead.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
5 Mar 2016 #1,269
As I said all along, you don't tell Senator McCain to get lost like Szydło did.

What are you talking about DD? Senator McClain is a yesterday news. I'm sure he signed that stupid letter just because he had been fooled.

Although I think that it was a mistake that Szydlo responded to that latter. In this way acknowledging it and attaching to him an import it doesn't have. Some sectary or other in her office should have sent a letter - thank you such and such for your interest and opinion and your input and we hope that in the future you'll not hesitate to express freely your view that is important to main a lively and a fruitful rapport between our allied nations.

Poland now can look forward to NATO backing off from increasing her presence in Poland

That is rubbish DD. Certainly that decision wouldn't been based on the response to some passing senatorial star. US. policy will be decided by the next president - depends which fraction in the administration will be heeded.

Gossip much?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 Mar 2016 #1,270
Senator McClain is a yesterday news.

The problem is that he's not yesterdays news. He's in control of the Senate committee responsible for defence. If he feels snubbed by Poland, then Poland loses a vital ally in the quest to get a permanent NATO base. As for why he signed the letter - McCain's no fool. He's been a keen supporter of Poland for years, so for him to get involved suggests that he's not happy in the slightest.

Is it really that surprising that the Americans haven't taken too kindly to being snubbed? They've got massive egos - look how spiteful they were for years towards Cuba after being humiliated.

US. policy will be decided by the next president - depends which fraction in the administration will be heeded.

The thing you're missing is that the President will also listen to what people like McCain have to say, because they have a strong voice regardless of political affiliation. If the Republicans in the Senate say "we're not funding a NATO base in Poland", then it's not happening. American politics are weird, but they do seem to work together on many issues regardless of formal affiliation.

Either way, if the US is irritated, that means that Poland is pretty much isolated.
Lagging - | 2
5 Mar 2016 #1,271
Ironside and Mafketis: As much projects done in Poland during the last ten years I have not seen in my country of origin since we became memebers of EU. But is a net contributor hence the difference. In regards to the aspects of Germany and Sweden open door policy, it is sure not a brilliant way of approaching, but on the other hand Sweden and Germany have been open for Polish Economic "migrants" for the last decades. Not to say those fleeing during the Soviet time. So well humanism seem to be a little bit of in the Catholic highland of central europe, hence it is at large atheist countries helping people in need. But that is another topic.
mafketis 24 | 9,384
5 Mar 2016 #1,272
Sweden and Germany have been open for Polish Economic "migrants" for the last decades

Not true at all in the case of Germany (which after 2004 insisted on keeping its labor market closed to Polish people as long as possible and wanted extensions).

Germany has been a very poor partner to new member states (not to mention Greece) and has precious little ground to stand on in calling for European solidarity and cooperation.

Sweden is a few steps away from being a failed state and I see no reason to assume that other countries wish to follow its lead.
TheOther 5 | 3,758
6 Mar 2016 #1,273
Germany (which after 2004 insisted on keeping its labor market closed to Polish people as long as possible and wanted extensions).

Well, you forgot to tell the whole story. Poland refused to allow foreigners to buy land (they demanded the right to maintain their restrictions on the alienation of lands to foreign citizens despite the free market policy of the European Union), so the Germans and others returned the favor and protected their labor market from Polish employees undercutting the local wage levels. The majority of the EU did exactly the same as Germany, and only a few countries allowed Poles in if I recall correctly. With the result that some of the locals like in the UK complained big time afterwards that their wages brought down by the new arrivals...

Germany has been a very poor partner to new member states

Yeah, that's why most of the EU funds that Poland receives originate in Germany. Very poor partner indeed.

not to mention Greece

You don't know what you're talking about. The financial crisis in Greece is completely home made. The only ones to blame are the Greeks themselves.

has precious little ground to stand on in calling for European solidarity and cooperation.

Good, maybe they should also cut any financial aid to Poland then. Who needs such European "friends" and partners, right?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
6 Mar 2016 #1,274
I found an interesting analysis on the whole situation with the Venice Commission here :

The PiS government has a simple choice - they can either accept the report of the Venice Commission, or they will have to put up with considerable cooling of relations with Washington. The choice belongs to Jaroslaw Kaczyński.

progressforpoland.com/pilne-ultimatum-waszyngtonu-dla-warszawy

The article explains in detail about how Washington regards Waszczykowski (Polish Foreign Minister) as being badly informed about world affairs as well as being very arrogant. It also explains how John Kerry made note of how Poland changed direction.

As a result, PiS have to make up their minds. Either they fix the situation in Poland, or the US+EU will go cold on Poland. That means certainly no NATO base in PL, as well as the EU starting to use soft power against Poland to ensure that PiS obey the law.
whocares
6 Mar 2016 #1,275
WARSAW-Officials in Washington are putting pressure on Poland to end a constitutional crisis [...] U.S. diplomats visiting Poland recently told government officials that they expected Poland to implement recommendations by Europe's top international human-rights organization

And this may just be the beginning. One possibility, once the American neocons and globalists get Ukraine completely, their focus will shift more to Ukraine since it touches mainland Russia.

PIS while its pseudo-nationalistic and okay for Poland there are still problems with it. might alienate itself from just about every major player (US, Germany and Russia). Polands military is quite weak atm and it would need to defend its interests.

And yes, PO was awful too cause it wanted to Germanize and Liberalize Poland.
I can see the BanderaUkis and Germans loving idea the idea of Poland being split. Maybe they want some extra "living space" for all those new "Germans" which Merkel invited.

So it appears to me that US will rather keep relations with Germany over Poland because of various reasons including its larger economy.

The US is completely in the hands of Globalists and Zionists and having such a partner for Poland wont be good.
America is a different nation today compared to the 1960s or even early 1900s. Today its Soros and Rockefeller creating conflict around Europe. Throw in some CIA and neocon politicians to spice up that soup.
pweeg3
6 Mar 2016 #1,276
Russia a 'major player'. Poland is weak. Zionists rule world, etc etc etc.

You Russians really are living on another planet.

Delph, The original article in the WSJ

WARSAW-Officials in Washington are putting pressure on Poland to end a constitutional crisis here or face a cooler patch in relations with the U.S., Polish officials said, in a sign of discord that could undermine Warsaw's ambition to host more allied troops.

Mr. Kaczynski, who leads the Law and Justice party but holds no executive office, said on Thursday that the Venice Commission's recommendations "are in no way binding for us,"

wsj.com/articles/u-s-presses-poland-to-end-constitutional-rift-1457142901
whocares
6 Mar 2016 #1,277
Russia a 'major player'. Poland is weak.

Thats rich coming from some foreigner Brit/Gerry pretending to be "half" Polish.

Yes Russians still play a significant role in this world (must suck for you eh?), they have the 2nd or 3rd strongest military, and top 10 economy by GDP.

Polish generals have openly said that the Polish military is not so good these days. Number of active personnel are also very low. Low amount of fighter jets even compared to mediocre countries like France or Germany.

And yes Globalists and Zionists do play a major role. The vast majority of American congressman (maybe even all of them) are supportive of Israel. The Israeli-Jewish lobby in the US is extremely strong (AIPAC, ADL, etc). There is literally dozens of Jewish and Zionist billionares in the US alone. They send money to politicians which support Israel.

Its a fact which anyone with eyes can see.

Oh yes... better to make sure under your bed, theres a Kremlin agent waiting for you LOL.
pweeg3
6 Mar 2016 #1,278
Ha ha.. Putin is a Big Man..
Ironside 50 | 10,939
6 Mar 2016 #1,279
The problem is that he's not yesterdays news.

He very much is.

If he feels snubbed by Poland

Do you really believe that US. shape its policy basing it on the snubbed ego of one senator? Nah!

The thing you're missing is that the President will also listen to what people like McCain have to say

You don't know who is going to be the new president and to whom will he listen. That is a pure guesswork here, other than that there are people who would say something different than he.

If the Republicans in the Senate say

Come on, He is not the Republicans even by the long stretch.

Either way, if the US is irritated,

Who is the USA exactly? So far some old confused dude and few errant democrat are pushing their luck.

As much projects done in Poland during the last ten years I have not seen in my country of origin since we became memebers of EU

Could that be because your country hardly needs that kind of investments. I'm sure gender studies and European curve expected in a sausage research found have been used to extent knowledge of the Swedish youth on those vital areas.

but on the other hand Sweden and Germany have been open for Polish Economic "migrants" for the last decades.

Hmm.. I'm sure my voice or reason and common sense is going to be wasted here but I must try nevertheless.
You're comparing apples and oranges here.
Furthermore there is no charity or humanitarians involved in regard to workers or immigrants from Poland. Sweden and Germany are fulfilling their duties undertaken by them due to the voluntarily signed international acts and agreements.

That line of argument is false. What in fact you and others are saying is something entirely different. It is as if a shop-owner would have said to one of his customers - hey I'm letting you shopping here in my store, don't be ingrate and give some money on my the charity I run.

The cheek of it!

So well humanism seem to be a little bit of in the

Seems that you are of tangent here by a mile. If you are going in that direction you should remember that Sweden had been developing in peace for 204 years and no one is telling you what you should or shouldn't do. Why don't you return the favor?

Poland refused to allow foreigners to buy land (they demanded the right to maintain their restrictions on the alienation of lands to foreign citizens despite the free market policy of the European Union)

Where are you getting your info from T? In most EU countries there is some kind of restrictions to buy land in one form or another. There are very few countries that anybody can buy land.

Yeah, that's why most of the EU funds that Poland receives originate in Germany.

.Again where you are getting you info from? All EU countries are whining about being the main contributor to this or that. In fact if you add all those figures and whining with what those countries like Poland that supposed to get off rich on those money are really getting you need to ask - where all those money are gone?

Good, maybe they should also cut any financial aid to Poland then.

I was anyway saying, f@@k off with your alleged charity. Sadly those clowns in Polish gorvbemnt don't listen to me! Yes, there is lobby and few people who are getting rich on those EU monies but there is few and far between and that system is hurting the country big time.

the Germans and others returned the favor and protected their labor market from Polish employees undercutting the local wage levels

Germany has strictly regaled internal jobs market. It is very risky business to employ people illegally. There is minimum wage. There is no way someone would undercut anyone.

the Venice Commission here

Wasz- something suck big time as a foreign minister. Asking the VC for opinion was a big stupid mistake. I hope he'll get fired! What a douche!

the EU starting to use soft power against Poland to ensure that PiS obey the law.

They can stick their old wilted dick in some willing ass - and keep off Poland.
dolnoslask
6 Mar 2016 #1,280
"there is some kind of restrictions to buy land in one form or another" and after the new laws in may it will be even harder for foreigners to buy land in Poland.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
6 Mar 2016 #1,281
I hope he'll get fired!

Apparently it's coming. Kaczyński is said to be furious with him, and he's doing a dreadful job with diplomacy in general - diplomats are laughing at his ego, and he doesn't seem to understand the most basic means of dealing with the foreign media. PiS need someone like Sikorski - foreign educated, well spoken and able to present their point of view in an educated and civilised manner.

and after the new laws in may it will be even harder for foreigners to buy land in Poland.

It won't be harder for foreigners, it will be harder for all EU citizens including Poles. The new laws have upset a lot of farmers who were using the profits from selling small plots to buy more land. There will be a strike at some point from farmers, especially as their right of inheritance has now been thrown out of the window (which is unheard of in Europe).
pweeg3
6 Mar 2016 #1,282
All restrictions on EU citizens buying land expire in a month. It was only agricultural of which there must very little demand for.

I can't see how that could be any justification or reason behind Germany and most of the EU refusing Polish workers for 8 years.

In most EU countries there is some kind of restrictions to buy land in one form or another

No there isn't. Could you prove that?

It won't be harder for foreigners, it will be harder for all EU citizens including Poles

Ok.. I missed this, whats that about?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
6 Mar 2016 #1,284
nationalise farmland

Cartoonish propaganda, you're a joke.
dolnoslask
6 Mar 2016 #1,285
The law is changing so that Polish locals will have priority over foreigners when it come to purchasing agricultural land.

1. Locals have first refusal to buy land

2. you need to have lived in the area for five years.

3. You have to be a farmer.

4 no one can hold over xxx hectares of land , but I can't remember what the xxx is.

Someone said it will be like the french system.

The law has been altered not to specifically exclude foreigners from land ownership, but as you can see in practice in will be tough for them.

I might also make it tough for some Poles who wish to move to a new district.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
6 Mar 2016 #1,286
1. Locals have first refusal to buy land

Not locals, but the agricultural land holding agency has first refusal. They can also buy it at the price they set, which means that if farmer Paweł spent 50 years working hard on his farm and built a beautiful farmhouse with a very productive blueberry plantation - they can now seize it and the children of Paweł get what the ANR decides to give them.

This is an unprecedented attack on the right of inheritance. Pure communism, through and through.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
6 Mar 2016 #1,287
There are similar laws in most of EU but "investors" were hoping to make billions off the white Negroes hence the whole oy vey.
dolnoslask
6 Mar 2016 #1,288
"agricultural land holding agency has first refusal", This won't happen in practice, they are open to negotiation as is the way in Poland.

The up side is that my village is entirely zoned as agricultural so we can keep out the undesirables and foreigners. Sorry Delp this means that you could never be my neighbors
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
6 Mar 2016 #1,289
"agricultural land holding agency has first refusal", This won't happen in practice, they are open to negotiation as is the way in Poland.

You think they're going to negotiate when the local Party boss has his eyes on Paweł's farm?

The whole system is designed to take land off private people and put it under the control of Party members.

Sorry Delp this means that you could never be my neighbors

Wouldn't be particularly keen on living in a village anyway :D
dolnoslask
6 Mar 2016 #1,290
Delph "take land off private people and put it under the control of Party members" Don't be so silly.

And don't compare the new government with the soviets. The Government just want to make sure our Polish land does not fall into the wrong hands, yours for instance.

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