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Poland's post-election political scene


OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Feb 2016 #1,021
utomatically transmit them to the tax office

Submit your proposal to the powers that be and I'll not say a word about your obsessive PiS-bashing.
jon357 66 | 17,040
21 Feb 2016 #1,022
your obsessive PiS-bashing.

There you go again, Po.

your proposal

It's been discussed already and would be a positive step.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
21 Feb 2016 #1,023
Submit your proposal to the powers that be and I'll not say a word about your obsessive PiS-bashing.

It might already be in the pipeline - there's been a lot of comments in the media about such a system, and it would be a very positive move by the government. Businesses would predictably howl, but there's really no reason in this day and age of mobile data to not have such a system. But finance is not my thing, I'm only interested in tax systems.

In theory, if Poland wanted a very simple taxation environment - it would be pretty trivial for all VAT-registered companies to submit all their VAT-related purchases and sales automatically to the taxman and for the tax office to automatically generate a VAT bill/refund monthly. Anyone purchasing from EU countries could be obliged to input the invoice data within 24 hours of receipt of the goods, which would ensure that the data is up to date.

If you think about when you go to the shop and ask for a Faktura VAT - it's mostly via computer these days. It wouldn't take much programming to require that transactions are sent automatically to the tax office. Any business that's VAT registered can surely afford to pay for any equipment needed, too.

(by the way - I took your words on board about talking to the Ministry of Education - we'll see if anyone listens)

Latest news : murmurings are afoot that PiS are thinking about a 4x4 educational system. 4 years of nursery/kindergarten, 4 years of primary school, 4 years of middle school and 4 years of high school. Essentially, something like this :

3-7 - kindergarten
7-11 - primary school
11-15 - middle school
15-19 - high school

Not a terrible idea, all things considered. There's still the issue of 18-19 year olds being in school, but the rest of it is actually not a bad idea at all. Primary school kids could have the stability of having the integrated programme for 4 years instead of 3, the break at puberty is preserved, and high schools have an extra year. It brings back the 4 year high school, yet allows for the specialisation of schools at each major point of a child's development. The other nice thing is that it limits the age range of schools, so schools can be equipped specifically for each age range.

If this is a real project, then I'm for it.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Feb 2016 #1,024
Not a terrible idea

And it also shows how socially sensitive the Sejm's only truly pro-Polish party is to the nation's needs and expectations.
All we are saying is: GIVE PiS A CHANCE!
jon357 66 | 17,040
21 Feb 2016 #1,025
the Sejm's only truly pro-Polish party

Many would say they're in fact very very anti-Polish.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Feb 2016 #1,026
anti-Polish

Anti-Polish is the pro-foreign- interest PO/KOR/KOD lobby.
Their theme song is: ALL WE ARE SAYING IS: KEEP POLAND DOWN!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
21 Feb 2016 #1,027
Poor Jarosław is starting to suffer from memory loss in his old age.

PiS leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski denies that the politicians of his party ever promised 500 zł for the first child. Meanwhile, such a promise to the public was repeatedly made during the election campaign of Beata Szydło.

se.pl/pieniadze/newsy/kaczynski-nigdy-nie-obiecywalismy-500-zl-na-pierwsze-dziecko_781634.html

So - we have the situation that "no-one promised 500zł for the first child" (they did), "there wasn't a hard commitment to lowering the retirement age" (there was) and that it was actually be "very difficult to raise the tax free amount".

PiS have had their 100 days, and not a single promise was kept. I hope you PiS voters choke on your broken promises.

I don't think single child families will forget this in a hurry. Jarosław's bare faced lie is known to be exactly that - a lie.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
21 Feb 2016 #1,028
I must say I don't follow Polish politics but my question is HOW do they expect to finance it? It is not specific of this government because I have realized (in all elections in past few years) that ALL candidates in Poland never indicate how they'll finance their projects.

I doubt that the current government will dig in the "Church fund" to finance their program ;)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
21 Feb 2016 #1,029
I must say I don't follow Polish politics but my question is HOW do they expect to finance it?

The whole thing is a mess. Basically, PiS promised in their election a programme that was completely unviable. It was all based on fooling voters that there was enough money in Poland to pay for 4 major promises - 500zł per child, retirement age of 60/65 reinstated, 8000zł tax free allowance, help for Swiss Franc mortgage holders as well as tax cuts (15% CIT, for instance).

Of course, now it turns out that the money simply isn't there. The 500+ programme is relying on a lot of extra debt to finance it, and their claims that there was 50 billion złoty missing in VAT collection appears to have been a huge lie. The government's own Ministry of Finance has been negative about the 500zł programme, yet its been implemented with only the bank tax in place to help pay for it.

Meanwhile, PO have trolled PiS by hammering home the point that they believe in 500zł for every child. PiS have been hit repeatedly with stories in the media of wealthy people claiming the 500zł per child, while the opposition has had a field day pointing out how a single mother with one child will not get the allowance if she works in an even reasonable job. PiS then made the mistake of saying stupid things such as "she should change her family situation" - which came across as cold and insensitive.

But the funniest thing of all is that PiS are now trying to claim that none of these things were actually real commitments.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
21 Feb 2016 #1,030
Of course, it would be nice to help the poor and the weak but if NO money, how to do it? Maybe they should stop financing RCC, Rydzik, Radio Marija and consorts.... ;)

If not possible to give 500 ZL to each kid, maybe they should limit program to the poorest families. I personally know quite a few Poles who are loaded and because they have 2 or 3 kids, they would qualify and trust me, they can raise their kids like kings without State's help.

Yes, "the single mother if she has it rough should find a ... husband!" We are in the 21st century and women should be able to make it without relying on men...
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
21 Feb 2016 #1,031
A lot of PIS members are genuinely angry about the whole thing - I've been reading articles written anonymously by them, and it's all the same story - how can the government provide cash for rich people while not looking after the working poor? I know people like that too, and it's sheer madness that they'll be able to benefit from government money while a single mother (often through no fault of her own) will be denied any money if her income is above 1601zł/month.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
21 Feb 2016 #1,032
maybe they should limit program to the poorest families

Their mandate was 500zl for EVERY child. They have to be seen to be sticking to what they said they will do otherwise it look like they are making things up as they go along.

As for the swiss franc debate, again they promised it so they have to try. However you are treating a group of voters, generally better off then average, better than the rest. Really, if I make a bad investment decision, I dont expect the government to pay me back what I lost. What about those with regular zloty based loans who didnt enjoy the low margins offered by the swiss/euro based loans. Again naivety and trying to win over a set of voters got them into trouble here.

There is a lot of tax and vat unpaid but unfortunately the majority of this is by individuals/sole traders, the very people they are trying to help. Corporations follow rules, they arent the ones paying people the minimum wage and then cash in hand under the table. For them its just not worth it for a few grand. Its the small Polish business man that does this. Same with income tax and vat. If they go after these people then they will find their money but of course will alienate the voters which put them in power.

They could do a lot of what they promised, its just they wont have the stomach to do whats necessary to get the funds because as with all politicians they want to stay in power.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Feb 2016 #1,033
As for the swiss franc debate

This is a total load of b*llocks. Those who took out franc credits did so to get ahead, took a risk and lost. It's like playing the stock exchange, if you win or lose it's always a risk and no-one's got the right to go cry-babying over it.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
21 Feb 2016 #1,034
Thats just what I said Polonius. Who advised them to pursue such a policy when all it does is help out the richer at the expense of everyone else? If I was in PIS its something Id try to bury ie. spin it to my favour. They do have options but as I said many times, they dont seem up to speed on how to play the game.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Feb 2016 #1,035
without relying on men...

Such attitudes have destroyed the family -- the foundation of every society.
What the family-wrecking alternativists are promoting (unwed mothers, patchwork households, live-in lovers, bloke on bloke "marriage", surrogates for homo couples, visitng rights and the like) can be compared to Merkel's multi-culti which also has been a total fiasco. Every child should have the right to grow up in a household with his/her own mother and father.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
21 Feb 2016 #1,036
Every child should have the right to grow up in a household with his/her own mother and father.

Not every mother/father is responsible enough to bring up a child. In a little village close to where I used to live a father brought roma men back to his council flat and offered them his wife/partner for cash. Three kids, one dies, but they quickly had another. And the government wants to give that sort free money? You need a licence to drive how about a licence to have kids?
dolnoslask
21 Feb 2016 #1,037
I never got this single parent thing, It took two to make the child so morally and financially the parents are jointly responsible, to be honest I don't understand why the state (or my tax money) is expected to support a single parent (Subsidized child care education etc is ok) , the man and woman who made the child should be held to account financially.

If I bought a car with a friend and the friend ran away I would not get any payments for not working because i need to change the oil or polish an clean it everyday.

Maybe some may see my analogy too simplistic, I just wouldn't buy the car if I could not afford it myself.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
21 Feb 2016 #1,038
@Pol3: I was referring to Jaro K's comments according to which single mothers have to get husbands in order to make both ends meet. No, a woman should not be forced to be wth a man simply to have bread on the table. As for kids, better to be raised by a happy and loving single mum than by a couple arguing and fighting all the time, with the guy sometimes alcoholic. Yes, I know it would be nice to have a family like in the "Little house in the prairie" but reality is different.

People have different situations (most often not their own choice) and all need to do the best they can with what they have and it is not easy.... (my case too ;)).

Life is not like in the movies ;)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Feb 2016 #1,039
People have different situations

Life is not a bowl of cherries and marriage is a great challenge. But one worth fighting for in fact to ensure kids of a complete family rather than a dysfunctional chidlhood. No-one said it is easy, but many of today's sissified, mamby-pamby people are too materialistic, greedy, and comfort and convenience minded to face up the the challenge. The first thing that goes wrong, they split up. This is not about you. I don't know and don't want to know. I'm talking about the things all about us anyone can observe.
dolnoslask
21 Feb 2016 #1,040
"Life is not like in the movies" I wish some people would realize this and not expect everyone else to pick up the bill.

Sorry Inpolska I missed "my case too", someone in your situation deserves every support.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
21 Feb 2016 #1,041
It's like playing the stock exchange, if you win or lose it's always a risk and no-one's got the right to go cry-babying over it.

And I agree with you completely. It's completely irresponsible (and Morawiecki has more or less said it straight) to even think about it - the country doesn't have 40 billion złoty to cover the costs and the banks are never going to accept it without a huge fight. If they lose the fight - the WIG30 will collapse along with the złoty.

I never got this single parent thing, It took two to make the child so morally and financially the parents are jointly responsible, to be honest I don't understand why the state (or my tax money) is expected to support a single parent

You don't get the fact that many Polish men try every trick in the book to avoid paying child maintenance? You don't get the fact that they often hide their income through a family member/new lover so that it appears they have zero assets? You don't get the fact that a woman working in a job such as teaching (so that she can balance it around school hours) might only be earning 2000zł net maximum? You don't get the fact that the husband might have been killed in a car accident, or simply have vanished abroad with no trace? You don't get that the woman and child were subjected to violence for years before she was finally brave enough to escape and that her full time job pays her 1602zł a month and thus disqualifies her from the 500+ programme?

You don't get it because you haven't walked a mile in their shoes.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Feb 2016 #1,042
Polish men

Those are not men but scumbags and slimeballs with brains between their legs. But it takes two to tango, so part of the blame lies with girls who've got "peanut-butter legs" -- easy to spread!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
22 Feb 2016 #1,043
You mean honest, decent, Catholic women who did nothing wrong other than marrying the wrong person - or even the right person who turned wrong?

Anyway, enough about single mothers, the most important news of today...

The uncle of Duda lost the mayoral election in Radom

lodz.wyborcza.pl/lodz/1,35136,19659557,wujek-dudy-przegral-wybory-w-radomsku-pokonal-go.html

Despite political patronage, the uncle of Andrzej Duda lost the mayoral election in Radom to the opposition candidate Jarosław Ferenc of the electoral committee "Together for Radom". Unofficial results suggest that Jaroslaw Ferenc obtained 8676 votes while Wieslaw Kaminski of PiS was supported by 4904 voters.

Remember that in the 2014 mayoral election, PO narrowly won with 52.01% of the vote against PiS with 47.99%.
dolnoslask
22 Feb 2016 #1,044
" every trick in the book to avoid paying child maintenance? " the first time they don't pay you chop off the left testicle the second time you chop off the right testicle.

(I am being tongue in cheek, the system should chase these people down and take the money prior to and wage or benefit they receive)

As for women who have lost partners early or due to accidents , or were subject to violence, they are a worthy minority, an extra 2%/ 5% tax from me no problem.

but as for pols comment " "peanut-butter legs" -- easy to spread!" well not delicately put, but I have to agree with him.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Feb 2016 #1,045
lost the mayoral election in Radom

Fess up. Do you have some PiS-bashing website at your fingerstips other than GW and TVN?
I follow Polish current events quite closely but rarely run across by-elections in remote rural hamlets like the one you got all excited about a few days ago.

Instead of all the hair-splitting nitpickery and PiS-bashery why not:
GIVE PiS A CHANCE?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
22 Feb 2016 #1,046
Fess up. Do you have some PiS-bashing website at your fingerstips other than GW and TVN?

Strangely enough, the PiS media are silent about this loss in Radom. I wonder if it'll even be reported tomorrow on TVPiS?

I follow Polish current events quite closely but rarely run across by-elections in remote rural hamlets like the one you got all excited about a few days ago.

How can you not run across electoral news? I mean - I understand that the PiS media tend not to report anything bad that happens, but still.
dolnoslask
22 Feb 2016 #1,047
pol " remote rural hamlets" mainly PIS supporters from my experience.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Feb 2016 #1,048
mainly PIS supporters

The coutnryside is divded to varying degrees in their support for PiS and PSL, so making a fuss about the odd PSL win is indeed the proverbial tempest in a teapot.
jon357 66 | 17,040
22 Feb 2016 #1,049
Strangely enough, the PiS media are silent about this loss in Radom

When this is repeated at the ballot box a hundred times, their silence will be deafening and the 'PIS media' will be even more of a laughing stock than they are now.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Feb 2016 #1,050
repeated at the ballot box

Życzeniowe myślenie - Wishful thinking. Wish on, me lad, it doesn't cost a thing!

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