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Poland's post-election political scene


NocyMrok
25 Jan 2016 #661
And a very bad advert for Poland, even though you are not from here.

This is very common "comment" of brainwashed leftists. Actually when asked for providing arguments it's the only one their weak mind can come up with. It sums up everything you ever said on the matter. Funniest thing is your opinion is meaningless. It's worth even less than the slogans of KOD protesters. They're manipulated, lied to and deluded same like you are but at least they're Poles. You're like an astronaut who wasn't cautious enough and let the safety rope slip off his hands. "In space no one can hear you scream". in your case "whine".
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #662
Really, that comment the sort of thing we have come to expect from hysterical PiS supporters...

Of course, they're all behind the latest attempt to crown a Jewish guy King of Poland.

Seems to me as if they really have their politics mixed up.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
25 Jan 2016 #663
a Jewish guy

What do you mean by that?
NocyMrok
25 Jan 2016 #664
He's just babbling like always.
jon357 66 | 17,078
25 Jan 2016 #665
Of course, they're all behind the latest attempt to crown a Jewish guy King of Poland.

Total hypocrisy - however when we have a hysterical party temporarily in office, with hysterical supporters (though actually not that many supporters) and racists like Po spouting bile online sadly this is what we get:

A (very) vocal PiS supporter:

Jews...they are devious bastards

I wonder if this includes the person that PiS want to crown King, or the woman outside whose shrine Kaczynski addresses his supporters...

All these people can do is hate. You can actually smell their fear when the party they support is wrong footed at every turn.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #666
You can actually smell their fear when the party they support is wrong footed at every turn.

It's because as many people have said - PiS is more of a cult than a political party. Their fear comes from the fact that they're trusting PiS to take them to a better place, and if there's any threat whatsoever to that plan, they instinctively respond with hatred and threats.

It's quite sad really. A lot of these more rabid supporters are going to end up in a worse place because of the government's actions.
jon357 66 | 17,078
25 Jan 2016 #667
A lot of these more rabid supporters are going to end up in a worse place because of the government's actions.

I should think most of them will, plus all those village elderly who'll spend the rest of their lives subbing money to their jobless kids, forking out their life savings for in vitro, feeling the shame when their families' small businesses fail, never seeing family who had to go abroad to find work.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
25 Jan 2016 #668
Total hypocrisy

Why? Do you have some special cod you and Delphi or you just like to talk BS?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #669
That's exactly it. Polonius and others talk so much about the "little man", but PiS have done nothing but screw that man over. The replacing of in vitro with that napro nonsense is just a kick in the face - no-one is getting in vitro because they want to, but because it's the last chance for them.

Likewise with these taxes - all they've done is guarantee that the small Polish supplier will have to meet the increased demands of the client. That means - ultimately - the supplier will cut wages or will demand more productivity from the workers.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jan 2016 #670
demand more productivity

Is Poland known for excessively high productivity? Polish workers put in more hours but how effectively? Abroad Poles are regarded as workaholics but in Poland...
dolnoslask
25 Jan 2016 #671
" but in Poland", Sorry Pol out in the sticks,most people here are on minimum wage , they just try and get through the day best they can (not usually very helpful) , they are not generally a happy lot , rarely crack a smile, the bosses are seen as the oppressors and generally the bosses are oppressive, might be better in the cities tho.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
25 Jan 2016 #672
Is Poland known for excessively high productivity?

Productivity is improving from very low levels from when manufacturing was state controlled and not commercially viable. In general, the new generation of Poles abroad are out for what they can get, thinking only of today not tomorrow. Workshy and cannot be trusted so need constant monitoring. Its probably not too different to the attitude of other young people but thats how it is.
dolnoslask
25 Jan 2016 #673
" Workshy and cannot be trusted so need constant monitoring" In my opinion this is true , I have employed poles in both Poland and the UK.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
25 Jan 2016 #674
Abroad Poles are regarded as workaholics but in Poland...

In my experience Polish people will work very hard if they think they will be suitably rewarded. That is not usually the case in Poland....

This also feeds into the equality gap (not terrible in Poland but growing) which feeds into large portions of the population thinking they're being cheated out of their birthright which leads to daft behavior like voting for PiS.
dolnoslask
25 Jan 2016 #675
" Polish people will work very hard if they think they will be suitably rewarded", in my experience they still do little, disappear or not turn up, even if I pay good money.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
25 Jan 2016 #676
We never directly employed anyone, using specialists to do the jobs we needed doing, but we did do our own site checks and a number of times it ended up with someone being drunk on the job and there were sometimes problems with building materials going missing. Contracts must always be in place but often the other side is flabbergasted when they are caught out and even more so when threatened with or taken to court. I try to explain to them if they cheat someone today, that person will no longer take them on in the future. But they tend to only worry about today, tomorrow is another day and they will worry about that tomorrow.

These are experiences from smaller towns of up to 100,000 inhabitants. Such problems arent as prevalent in large cities. We are working in slightly different field but there tends to be more professionalism and less short term thinking.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
25 Jan 2016 #677
As I spend over 30 hours/week in biggest foreign companies in Warsaw, I can say that Poles employed (and well paid) by them do work a lot (and efficiently). If well paid and if given good conditions, Poles - like any other nationality - respond positively. Employees in small Polish businesses are however much different and often still have "communist" mentality. In government institutions (where I also spend considerable time), nowadays, people do work (although of course less than they would if working in the private sector).

Poles are no different from anybody else, if "treated" right, they work a lot and well...
jon357 66 | 17,078
25 Jan 2016 #678
If well paid and if given good conditions, Poles - like any other nationality - respond positively.

Regardless of a company's ownership structure and also regardless of a country's perceived work ethic, it will as ever be the most vulnerable employees who suffer from the economic mismanagement caused by the PiS National Socialist government.

That and the ordinary savers who have a few shares and the institutional investors like pension funds.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #679
it will as ever be the most vulnerable employees who suffer

Partially because anyone that had a choice has already left. The ones working in corpo jobs can simply apply for transfers elsewhere after a year of work, and other specialists will easily find work abroad.

We can see now that the 2% retail tax is planned to hit every single business with a turnover of 12 million PLN a year regardless if it's online or offline. That means that Polish webshops have no chance against foreign retailers such as iperfumy.pl, Zelando.pl and asos.com. 12 million a year isn't much money, as it's based on turnover. A lot of even smaller online retailers will hit this barrier - and when they do, they're going to take up and move the business to the Czech Republic or Slovakia on paper. The goods will still be physically posted from PL, but they're going to pay Czech/Slovak social insurance and taxes and the 'ordinary Polish man' is going to lose his job.

Meanwhile, today, the CEO of Auchan in Poland will order his finance director to find ways to recover the money lost to the government. That means squeezing suppliers, expecting higher productivity (did you know that cashiers are judged according to their 'scan rate'?) and cutting numbers employed. All of these things will hurt Polish businesses and Polish people. Obviously - Auchan cannot get away with paying their workers less than minimum wage. But the guy that supplies them... well, if he wants to keep the contract, he's going to have to cut his prices.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jan 2016 #680
12 million a year isn't much money

12 million is a fantastic yearly turnover. Most small firms are 2-3 member family affairs that will be exempted. You do not understand the real Poland because you view everything through the prism of and equate mainly with the prosperous and successful who constitute a tiny minority in Poland. You'd do better to consider and find ways to educate the majority on how to become successful and well-off.
jon357 66 | 17,078
25 Jan 2016 #681
That means that Polish webshops have no chance against foreign retailers such as iperfumy.pl, Zelando.pl and asos.com. 12 million a year isn't much money, as it's based on turnover

So as usual, not thought through at all, and harmful to Poland.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #682
12 million is a fantastic yearly turnover.

It sounds it. But margins in retail are tiny - hence a lot of webshops rely on high amounts of sales. That's why a turnover tax is going to lead to a lot of the more successful online retailers simply moving out of Poland.

This tax pretty much guarantees that every single online retailer will move out of Poland. From the customer point of view, there won't be any difference if something is delivered from CZ or from PL, after all. Prices for delivery are pretty much identical from CZ or from within PL, so for the online retailer, that 2% difference means you appear to be 2% cheaper on price comparison portals such as ceneo.

As for your jibe about "not understanding the real Poland", I understand just fine when warehouse workers get fired because the company has relocated to the Czech Republic to avoid the turnover tax.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
25 Jan 2016 #683
the prosperous and successful who constitute a tiny minority in Poland

At least they'll be happy that people who were more successful than them are suffering (that seems to be the goal of PiS, not to help the less well off but to make them feel better by punishing the better off). Social poison it is....
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #684
It's pure poison. The latest article about the bank tax makes it crystal clear...

The biggest Polish bank PKO BP will charge higher fees from their retail clients. This is another financial institution under the influence of the new bank tax which will pass the cost on to customers. The current finance minister Paul SzaƂamacha before the election, reassured that PKO BP will become "the policeman guarding the interests of consumers".

se.pl/pieniadze/newsy/podatek-bankowy-juz-uderza-w-klientow-pko-bp-podnosi-oplaty_767907.html

Just to make sure everyone understands - PKO BP is controlled by the government. It's the largest bank in Poland, and they have branches where other banks frequently aren't present, especially in smaller places. For them to increase fees is nothing short of criminal. As always with PiS, it's the "ordinary Polish man" that loses.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jan 2016 #685
pass the cost on to customers

If that is the case, then the tax legsilation is defective. It should contain a clause prohibiting cost pass-on and mandating profit-margin reduction at the risk of licence withdrawal. And dont tell me your heart pumps purple pony p*ss for the poor, maltreated banksters!
jon357 66 | 17,078
25 Jan 2016 #686
Just to make sure everyone understands - PKO BP is controlled by the government.

A case for privatisation if ever there was one. Won't happen though; it's a cash cow for whoever is in power.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jan 2016 #687
end up in a worse place

In a worse place than the frustrated trough defenders? The masses of disentitled, ex-PZPR, ex-TW, ex-privileged, etc. won't see another such trough for at least another generation!

This just in: PGNiG have just terminated their contacr with S&P. American financial commentator Matthew Tyrmand wrote that extremely politicsed S&P take their cue from the hyperpolticised EU who wanted to punish today's Poland for not being as eurocentric as the PO administration was. Sounds quite plausible!
NocyMrok
25 Jan 2016 #688
12 million PLN a year

It's 18 million. You don't even understand Polish so how could you be any right? You're clueless. According to president of union of employers great majority of Polish companies is family business with an income of around 5000 pln a month.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
25 Jan 2016 #689
American financial commentator Matthew Tyrmand wrote that extremely politicsed S&P take their cue from the hyperpolticised EU who wanted to punish today's Poland for not being as eurocentric as the PO administration was.

That's for a start, gov should count the costs and sue motherfeckers.

A case for privatisation

LOL !
jon357 66 | 17,078
25 Jan 2016 #690
LOL !

So you favour Socialist-style state ownership of businesses. No wonder you're one of the few people in Poland (oops, I forgot you abandoned Poland long ago) who support the National Socialist PiS Partei

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