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Poland's post-election political scene


delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #691
It's 18 million.

It was 12 million up until the announcement.

I see you also don't understand the difference between "net profit" and "turnover".

Anyway, this guarantees that just like the bank tax, either prices will rise or Polish suppliers will lose out.
NocyMrok
25 Jan 2016 #692
It won't affect Polish companies like you anti-polish foreigners wish. I do hope you will start to pay in some serious money into our budget though. You're just a guest here.

Off to watch handball.
jon357 66 | 17,040
25 Jan 2016 #693
I see you also don't understand the difference between "net profit" and "turnover".

With an understanding of basic business like that, it's no wonder that a few people voted for PiS and most just sighed and stayed away from the polls.

And the sad thing is that business will suffer, employees will suffer and the jobs market will contract.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
25 Jan 2016 #694
So you favour Socialist-style state ownership of businesses...

Yeah, what a pity PKO BP wasn't "privatized" to "foreign investor" for less than its net profits from the last 3 years. We all now that If Adam Smith was alive today, he would say "great deal bro" to that. Me bad commie :)))))
NocyMrok
25 Jan 2016 #695
And the good thing is that you will suffer, your family will suffer and many anti-polish foreigners won't make it and leave Poland.

Fixed :)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #696
It won't affect Polish companies like you anti-polish foreigners wish.

Of course it will. Polish companies need all the help they can get, and taxing them is the exact opposite of helping them. Meanwhile, anyone with an internet shop that's coming close to the tax threshold will simply relocate to the Czech Republic or Slovakia. I know you don't understand business, but no business is going to stay in Poland if the tax system elsewhere is more favourable.

And the sad thing is that business will suffer, employees will suffer and the jobs market will contract.

It's a basic principle that the more you regulate and tax businesses, the worse the economic situation gets.

There's a good comparison in Bosnia actually - the Republika Srpska introduced a 10% flat tax rate and more or less abolished all barriers to business. It's not flourishing, but it's in a lot better shape financially than the Federation of Bosnia-Hercegovina, which has a complete mess of a tax system and endless bureaucratic barriers.

Fixed :)

You don't get business at all, do you?

I have a friend that has a fairly successful online business. If he hits the tax threshold, then he'll simply pay people less. It's that simple.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jan 2016 #697
Polish companies need all the help

So all in all, what is your fool-proof prescription for dynamising and expanding indigenous Polish business, creating Polsih production and retail giants and lessening the domination of foreign companies the siphon off profits to their home offices abroad?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,279
25 Jan 2016 #698
every single business with a turnover of 12 million PLN a year

It's 18 million.

It's 18 million and it is not "every business".
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #699
So all in all, what is your fool-proof prescription for dynamising and expanding indigenous Polish business, creating Polish production and retail giants and lessening the domination of foreign companies the siphon off profits to their home offices abroad?

Lower regulations and taxes for smaller companies and provide them with some solutions that can increase the attractiveness of the company for Polish workers. We're throwing so much money at the coal mines - that money could easily be used to help Polish businesses. There are endless possibilities - we could be offering startups the possibility to get a year's worth of salaries paid, we could be offering tech companies funds to employ a foreign expert for 1 year to benefit from their knowledge - that sort of thing can really pay off in time.

If PiS took the money from the retail tax and poured it into funding new businesses, we would see a lot of positive change.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jan 2016 #700
some solutions

You being the PF's court business expert, I was awaitng a response on Warsaw's Google Campus -- supposedly a tool to aid start-up comapnies.
jon357 66 | 17,040
25 Jan 2016 #701
Pork barrel politics. They're aware of how badly they will do in the local elections (and town hall level is where PiS busybodies line their pockets) so will do their damnedest to court any group where there's a bloc vote - something they have never had.
NocyMrok
25 Jan 2016 #702
I have a friend that has a fairly successful online business. If he hits the tax threshold, then he'll simply pay people less.

Then they'll move to more competitive company. Your mate will have problems and eventually change the country he operates in. As he is your friend he probably shares mindset with you so he will take that away with him. All positives.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #703
Actually, he's Polish, so that means he'll fire the manual workers that pack/post the items and hire Czech/Slovak manual workers instead. The company will no longer pay income tax/social insurance to Poland, nor will the company pay all sorts of other taxes to the Polish exchequer. Meanwhile, the Czech/Slovak exchequer will benefit.

I know you don't understand how business works, but business always flows to where it can flourish. That's why Russia has problems right now and why Ireland went from being a nation of farmers to being a very tech-savvy, advanced economy within 40 years.
NocyMrok
25 Jan 2016 #704
The company will no longer pay income tax/social insurance to Poland, nor will the company pay all sorts of other taxes to the Polish exchequer.

Changes need sacrifice. Good for Czechs/Slovaks if they're ok with foreigners pumping their money outside. Polish workers will find jobs anyway and some other company will get into the niche your friend created. . Win win situation for my country.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Jan 2016 #705
Changes need sacrifice.

What are you babbling about? Poles don't want any more 'sacrifice'.

Good for Czechs/Slovaks if they're ok with foreigners pumping their money outside.

It's not their money, because the shop is aimed at Poles. It's good for them though, because it's their government that benefits from Polish money.

Polish workers will find jobs anyway and some other company will get into the niche your friend created. .

Business really isn't your strong point, is it? My friend won't move out of the Polish market, he'll simply relocate the company close to the Polish border, but in CZ/SK. The only difference is that he'll employ Czech/Slovak workers and he'll pay taxes to the Czech Republic or Slovakia. There won't be any niche opening up in Poland, because he'll still occupy that part of the market.

Win win situation for my country.

It's a massive lose-lose, because Poland will lose jobs and taxes will be paid to the Czech/Slovak governments.
NocyMrok
25 Jan 2016 #706
pay taxes to the Czech Republic or Slovakia.

Govt will take care of that.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
26 Jan 2016 #707
I don't think you get it, do you?

The government can't 'take care' of anything, because we have a single European market.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Jan 2016 #708
single European market.

...which however does not interfere with domestic taxation. So far at least. The EU have stuck their big nose into most everything else, so that too is probably not too far down the road.
mafketis 24 | 9,372
26 Jan 2016 #709
..which however does not interfere with domestic taxation.

But the free movement of goods and services means that it's not in the interest of a functional government to raise taxes too much.....as people in Poland will soon find out.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Jan 2016 #710
money at the coal mines

What is Poland to do with the laid-off coalminers? To a larger extent than in other sectors coalminers by tradition tend to have single-breadwinner households and it's hubby who wins the bread. The sacked miners would all be competing with other job-seekers and since the pay msot likely would be less than in the colliery, their wives would also land on the job market. It's easy to theorise and pontifcate at the keyboard whilst ignoring the social ramifications involved.

where PiS busybodies line their pockets

Where do Platformers and other busybodies line theirs?
jon357 66 | 17,040
26 Jan 2016 #711
The government can't 'take care' of anything, because we have a single European market.

Exactly, it's this misunderstanding that is confusing the political issue. Poland chose the single market and although the tax office certainly doesn't like the fact that someone can register their business elsewhere, rather than whine it's incumbent on them (and the government in office) to provide an environment where people don't need to do this.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Jan 2016 #712
Poland chose the single market

"Chose" is misleading. Most Poles did not know what they were getting in for. The PO toured the country in a "eurobus" drumming up support for a "yes" vote in the referendum and painting a glowing picture of all the alleged advantages. The opponents did not get equal time in the media so voters could not weigh the pros and cons and make an intelligent choice.
jon357 66 | 17,040
26 Jan 2016 #713
Most Poles did not know what they were getting in for.

That's absolutely naive, an underestimation of voters and ignores the vigorous 'no'campaign.

It also falls down flat when you consider the fact that within the EU, Poles are one of the nations that support continued membership most strongly.
NocyMrok
26 Jan 2016 #714
That's absolutely naive, an underestimation of voters and

You underestimate voters all the frigging time. Jezus Maria.
jon357 66 | 17,040
26 Jan 2016 #715
Given that most voters didn't actually turn out to vote and now we have a regime that nobody likes, it's very fair to criticise them.
NocyMrok
26 Jan 2016 #716
voters

Since they didn't vote they aren't voters

nobody likes,

I like current govt and know many more ppl that like it. LIAR! Again you tell yourself that you're a voice of a foreign to you nation. Have you ever talked with your psychiatrist about your superiority complex?
polishinvestor 1 | 362
26 Jan 2016 #717
Most Poles did not know what they were getting in for.

Utter madness. Again. In almost every poll taken since then Poles are 80% or more for staying in the EU. Not to mention those working abroad and also those in the grey zone working illegally in Germany and other EU nations. Often these people work for 5 or more years then come back and open a business here. Without EU membership and open borders, this would be impossible. Not always, but largely those left behind have chosen to be left behind.
jon357 66 | 17,040
26 Jan 2016 #718
Again. In almost every poll taken since then Poles are 80% or more for staying in the EU.

It's actually one of the highest approval ratings anywhere for continued EU membership. Poland hugely supports the EU. Those tiny handfuls of beardies who shop up in public with giant crosses and banners about Eurowhatever are a tiny, tiny minority.

Since they didn't vote they aren't voters

Buy a dictionary

I like current govt and know many more ppl that like it.

All polls indicate that the people you are crass enough to discuss politics with in real life (assuming it is in real life) are in a minority. Most people do not support the present regime.
NocyMrok
26 Jan 2016 #719
Buy a dictionary

In my dictionary they are potential voters until they actually vote.

polls indicate that the people you are crass enough to discuss politics with in real life (assuming it is in real life) are in a minority. Most people do not support the present regime.

Firstly you negate all polls that are against your imaginary facts,
Secondly even your own polls show that it's not everybody that is against current govt.

LIAR!
jon357 66 | 17,040
26 Jan 2016 #720
In my dictionary they are potential voters until they actually vote

Voters are voters, whether they bother to show up or not. I always vote; my forbears fought hard for the right to do so and I don't understand why some people are apathetic.

all polls that are against your imaginary facts,

The polls show that the current regime are unpopular and the puppet president is low in the ratings too.

Sooner or later (could be Petru but I doubt it) someone will emerge that is genuinely popular and hopefully not populist it won't be Kukiz, won't be Biedroń (though they love him up in Słupsk), it won't be anyone with strong links to the Church, but it will be someone and hopefully someone far more moderate and less hysterical than Kaczynski. Though that wouldn't be hard.

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