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Poland's post-election political scene


Ironside 50 | 10,940
10 Jan 2016 #511
Your demagoguery has not limits. Fortunately nobody is buying it.

Some people are coming here to debate issues as it is a prefect opportunity to do so on this forum but some people unfortunately come here to play games and propaganda. Delph belongs to the later group.

There seemingly three groups of foreigners on this forum.
The first group has no clue what is going on in Poland due to the poor language skills and limited numbers of people they really interact with. Hence their comments in this section of the forum are pathetically wide off mark.

The second group of foreigners are either looking at PiS through a very narrow lenses of their ideological bias or/and those who somehow identified PO with liberal, leftie, progressive party (for some bizarre reason) and are viewing PiS as a nemesis set against those "values".

Hence they miss what really going on in Poland and they focus on this issues which in fact are only sideshow or byproduct of circumstances.

The third group is somewhat confused as to goings in the Polish politicks and their views vary from one individual to another.

Of course Mr Oracle doesn't care for realities and circumstances of the Polish politicks, he is only playing and having fun - as they say the play is the thing.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
10 Jan 2016 #512
removing everyone else

It was Poland's voters who for the first time gave a single party an outright victory not necessitating a coalition to govern. Voters removed everyone else from government.

The 1993 you so glowingly admire marked Poland's neo-Marxist take-over. Rather than carry out proper de-communisation which should have given ex-commies a 10-year ban on standing for public office, thanks to the likes of KPP-rooted Michniks and assorted ex-commies (ia Miller, Kwaśniewski), fellow travellers (Mazowiecki) and leftists (like Modzelewski), members of the PZPR Politburo and Central Committee made a comeback a mere four years after PRL was toppled.

They continued to contaminate the public stage uintil October 2015, when thanks to PiS' victory they were finally elimianted from parliament. Better late than never!
jon357 66 | 17,078
10 Jan 2016 #513
The looting and plundering of Poland, aka TKM, can now take place unopposed by any pesky workers that might oppose them

Agreed absolutely, though worth mentioning the dirty tricks that they try.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 Jan 2016 #514
If you look back to how Communist governments won power post-war, it was pretty much identical - they went after some high profile enemies as well as securing control of everything that really mattered. For instance, in post-war East Berlin, the Communists made sure to control education, media and policing/justice. With such control, you can do anything you want. They then enacted plenty of changes that suited their agenda, rendering the opposition incompetent.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
10 Jan 2016 #515
Communist governments

Communist regimes were brought to Eastern Europe and kept afloat for 45 years with Soviet bayonets. By contrast, PiS is the most pro-Polish party around not beholden to any external force, and that is the key difference.

In fact, soon there will be more Polish culture and history on National Television and more Polish music on National Radio. Yet another campaign promise -- re-Polonisation -- will be fulfilled.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 Jan 2016 #516
Communist regimes were brought to Eastern Europe and kept afloat for 45 years with Soviet bayonets.

Soviet bayonets wouldn't have been enough by themselves. They needed a willing local population to control the levers of power, and that they found. Don't forget that every single post-war Communist leader was also a fearsomely talented organiser.

By contrast, PiS is the most pro-Polish party around not beholden to any external force, and that is the key difference.

Except, you know, they signed an unfavourable deal with Russia and have implemented several policies designed to push Poland further into the Russian sphere of geopolitics. If by "pro-Polish", you mean "pro-Russia", then yes, I'd agree.

In fact, soon there will be more Polish culture and history on National Television and more Polish music on National Radio.

I look forward to it. Nothing will alienate the voters more than endless cheap Polish productions of dubious merit which push the Party line.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
10 Jan 2016 #517
endless cheap Polish productions

So the proud Polish nation should continue to be spoon-fed with cheap and tacky foreign crapola, as if they had no heritage of their own?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 Jan 2016 #518
At least it'll be cheaper and won't exist solely to provide members of PiS with lucrative public TV/radio contracts to produce 'national' propaganda. You honestly think that PiS care about promoting Polish interests? Of course they don't - they care about producing cheap propaganda that costs a small fortune to produce in exchange for the previous support of "journalists" and "filmmakers" when they were in opposition.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
10 Jan 2016 #519
promoting Polish interests

Defintiely. When PiS were in power Polish history and culture repappeared in school curricula and on the airwaves, only to again get downplayed and sidetracked by the foreign-corporation-supporting Platformers. As Jan Pietrzak sang, Let Poland be Poland!
smurf 39 | 1,981
10 Jan 2016 #520
Polish culture and history on National Television and more Polish music on National Radio

The problem with forcing culture on a society is that it never works and if you're already in such a state that you need to force 'culture' onto a society then it's already too late.

Conservatives don't understand this point, but that's OK. If we all listened to conservatives we'd all still be living in the rain forest, hunting with spears & licking toads for a weekend buzz.

Let Poland be Poland!

What about the tribes that came before the Poles, they have no rights! How dare you!
mafketis 24 | 9,387
10 Jan 2016 #521
When PiS were in power Polish history and culture repappeared in school curricula and on the airwaves

And young educated Poles loathed PiS (I was there, you weren't). Former PiS coalition partner Roman Giertych even did the impossible - he awakened the political awareness in young educated Polish people who wanted no part of the nonsense he was spouting.

And... as Shirley Bassey said, it's all just a little bit of history repeating..... (current young educated Poles are already turning on PiS)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
10 Jan 2016 #522
turning on PiS

If that is true, then it only shows the efficacy of the heavily bankrolled anti-PiS hate industry. Hitler's propaganda minister Goebbels said a lie repeated 100 tiems will be believed. How many times has the bald-faced lie about democracy being threatened in Poland been repeated by the OK (Obrońcy Koryta) crowd?
mafketis 24 | 9,387
10 Jan 2016 #523
it only shows the efficacy of the heavily bankrolled anti-PiS hate industry

It actually only shows the hubris of JK, he's a proven loser with youth (as is Macierewicz) hauling them out of mothballs and hamstringing Szydło (and maybe Duda*) was a major blunder. Younger people were possibly going to support a new generation of PiS in a more general Christian Democrat mold, they're not ever going to warm to JK or AM (or Kurski) or other experienced troughers.

*it's too early to tell if he simply has no backbone or is a true believer
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 Jan 2016 #524
He owes his political career to PiS, and if he attempted to go it alone, they would simply haul him up in front of the State Tribunal and prosecute him on random trumped-up charges. Still, would be better to grow a backbone now rather than face the humiliation of seeing the State Tribunal prosecute him in 2019.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
10 Jan 2016 #525
prosecute him on random trumped-up charges

Good point, he's broken the law for PiS which puts him forever in their power (as they will not hesitate to use that against them should he ever show signs of independence).

And that's what I dislike about JK's PiS, it's a horrible form of negative selection - the brownnosers thrive and those with principal (or their own support bases) get exiled. Very PZPRish when you actually think about it.

I'll add that Duda's body language in his recent address to the nation was a mess, like a frightened child more than a statesman. From the looks of it, he didn't believe what he was saying himself, how could anyone else?
Librarius - | 91
10 Jan 2016 #526
PZPRish

Do you know that you have used for the first time this word. Whence came this?
mafketis 24 | 9,387
10 Jan 2016 #527
Whence came this?

Some years ago, not long after the first PiS election victory a co-worker referred to one of the K brothers (forget which one) as a "stary komuch"* meaning that he learned his management style from the communist period and had never updated it. I've never come across any data that would lead me to think otherwise.

*old commie, but worse
NocyMrok
13 Jan 2016 #528
You do it. Didn't you call Kaczyński rusophobist back when Smoleńsk just happened? Aren't you calling him pro-russian now?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Jan 2016 #529
rusophobist

They'll even call Jarek a social democrat or anti-Semite or wife-beater or Mother Goose as long as they can get in another swipe at PiS. Those sick bastards can't really help it after being steeped for years in the PO-designed hate industry.

endless cheap Polish production

The wannabe Pole is looking forward to his scrap of paper but associates Polish culture with cheapness and tawdriness.
G (undercover)
13 Jan 2016 #530
They needed a willing local population

Nonsense as usual. Even without a single "willing" local, they would have been no capitalism and democracy in Poland after WW2. Soviets would have just deport 1 or several million more people somewhere to Asia and plant their own here. That's what happened in several places.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Jan 2016 #531
the brownnosers

The brownnosers used to sniff Tusk's behind, now they're doing the same to Petru.
jon357 66 | 17,078
13 Jan 2016 #532
All this hostility really shows that the PiS supporters are running scared.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Jan 2016 #533
are running scared

It's the leaders of the trough defenders that are scared. They cna see it will soon increasignly difficult to drag people into the streets and have them spend their Saturday day off ranting, chanting and pounding the pavement. The more so that the wheels of governmnet continue to turn apace totally unaffected by the rabble-rousers.
jon357 66 | 17,078
13 Jan 2016 #534
the leaders of the trough defenders that are scared

Basically PiS, then.

They cna see it will soon increasignly difficult to drag people into the streets

There you go again, Po3, trying to pretend that all those thousands of pro-democracy protesters, people from all walks of life, of all ages are somehow "dragged" into spontaneously supporting Poland...

As I say, running scared.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Jan 2016 #535
"dragged" into spontaneously supporting Poland

They are dragged into it deluded that somehow all the noisy chanting and ranting defends demcoracy. If they knew they were actually defending the interests of a small nomenklatura/bankster elite, their ranks would quickly thin. One has to hand it to the trough-defenders' leadership -- they're good at persuasively effective propaganda. But so was Hitler and Stalin.
jon357 66 | 17,078
13 Jan 2016 #536
They are dragged into it

Nope. Nobody 'dragged' into anything (except perhaps those few people who were bussed in for the failed PiS counter demonstration - and they all sloped off to the Arkadia shopping mall instead),

You're very cynical. And underestimate the intelligence of Poles if you think that the tens of thousands of people from so many different walks of life who choose to attend the Polish pro-democracy rallies not know their own minds.
NocyMrok
13 Jan 2016 #537
All this hostility really shows that the PiS supporters are running scared.

Give me a break. Even you are more hostile. Foreigners comming here and taking part in those nonsense protests just show they have no will to adapt but rather try to change the host country to suit their needs/interests. Just like the Islam does. Same pattern. Foreigners are guests here and if their actions will do any harm to my country they'll simply leave and continue their destructive practice somewhere else. We can't let that happen and we must deal with problems on our own with the wellbeing of Poles as a top priority. Otherwise instead of Democracy and Freedom we will become slaves to some foreign identities that don't give a **** about us. Even KOD should keep outsiders outside.
jon357 66 | 17,078
13 Jan 2016 #538
Ironic that you accuse people of being "hostile" in a post that drips hostility. And then rant about Islam and "foreign identities".

Basically as logical and as rational as the gang that the Polish pro-democracy movement are so justifiably concerned about.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
13 Jan 2016 #539
What's quite amusing is today's events. It transpires that the Hungarian Commissioner on the European Commission actually failed to support Poland. Orban is no fool, and it looks like PiS believed him when he said that Hungary will block any sanctions ;)
NocyMrok
13 Jan 2016 #540
It's you who accuse PiS supporters. Probably because you come from a country where social engineering was successful. I do somewhat understand it. You just got used to elites and fascists ruling world or at least Europe being able to exploit you and your fellow countrymen with no limits. But well Poland's not UK or Germany. Hopefully it will never socially become like those. Nations, tradition, culture and religion are very important values to us and are big obstacles for the Elite to overcome so they could maximise profits.

And yes. You act like Islamists. Foreigners in EU spread false about Poland because current Polish politics hits they're wallets. Islamists demonstrate there's no shariath law, halal food and burkas on the streets of London. Same pattern.

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