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Poland's post-election political scene


delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
13 Jan 2016 #541
There's something very amusing about the fact that all of these people commenting here and defending PiS are such patriots that they....live abroad.
NocyMrok
13 Jan 2016 #542
What's quite amusing

That Czech PM officially said there's nothing wrong with democracy in Poland and he doesn't understand what the fuss is about. But you hear and quote only what you want Delphi.
jon357 66 | 17,078
13 Jan 2016 #543
You just got used to elites and fascists ruling world

That short phrase utterly destroys your ranting post.

You fail to understand that not everyone in Poland has the same vision about the country as you - hence your inability to understand why those tens of thousands of ordinary men and women from all parts of Polish society are so concerned about the current situation that they come out on the streets in the middle of an icy Polish winter to attend the pro-democracy rallies...

That Czech PM officially said there's nothing wrong

That of course makes all the difference!

:-)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
13 Jan 2016 #544
That Czech PM officially said there's nothing wrong with democracy in Poland and he doesn't understand what the fuss is about. But you hear and quote only what you want Delphi.

Who belongs to the Czech Social Democratic Party, which was more or less part of the Czechoslovakian Communist Party and certainly came from it.

Try harder.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Jan 2016 #545
those tens of thousands

Those tens of thousands of ordinary men and women from all parts of Polish society who still haven't realised they are being used by disentitled elites to create the false impression that the Polish people are mainly concerned about the interests of banksters, foreign retail chains and post-nomenklatura types pushed away from the trough. Goes to show how cleverly phrased high-sounding pro-demcoracy rhetoric can gull, seduce and delude.
nothanks - | 640
13 Jan 2016 #546
EU = Anti-Native European. It is painfully obvious. If Polska intends on remaining a homogenous nation, they need to establish relationships with Russia and most likely leave the EU sooner than later.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
13 Jan 2016 #547
they need to establish relationships with Russia and most likely leave the EU sooner than later.

I think I've read it all on PF now.

You do realise that Poland already tried that for 44 years and it didn't go so well?
nothanks - | 640
13 Jan 2016 #548
Because we are one of the Wests biggest pawns. I wouldn't do business with current day Polska either.
whocares
13 Jan 2016 #549
If Polska intends on remaining a homogenous nation, they need to establish relationships with Russia and most likely leave the EU sooner than later.

Well said. You see though the foreigners (mostly Brits) will accuse you of being a Putinist agent.
The Anglo world never wanted Slavs to work together.

Poland should improve relations with Russia but still be careful (because of history). We can be business partners, but the rest will have to wait a few decades because there are still some Russophobes.

So to improve relations (from the current nightmare) would be good. Its just asking for war.
Getting too close can be dangerous too though.

Take it easy but yes leave the EU would be good.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Jan 2016 #550
some Russophobes.

Don't forget the Russian Polanophobes.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
13 Jan 2016 #551
Absolutely. Can't imagine that they'll suddenly be all "hey Poland, let's be equal partners!". More like "Hey Poland, you have no friends now, so let's be "friends" where you give me all your resources for free and you can pay me twice market value for mine!".
dolnoslask
13 Jan 2016 #552
"More like "Hey Poland, you have no friends now," So whats new Poland's friends have always run away when the Sh$t hit the fan, in fact they have been quite happy to sell us out too.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
13 Jan 2016 #553
Poland needs external investment to reach its goals of growth and expansion of wealth for Poles as a whole. Some will be left behind but the alternative where everyone has and is equal, is communism and that only works when the world doesnt keep tabs on the treasury's bottom line - something that was possible in the 70's/80's but not in this age.

With the EU you know where you stand. You toe the line, you get the cash - EU does as it says it will. There has been a huge increase in foreign ownership of Polish goverment bonds. This is a sign of trust in the approach Poland has taken over the last few years. Causing arguments and backing away from the EU will see this investment reverse and neither Russia nor China will pick up the tab as they have problems of their own and of course have a less ethical approach to foreign investment.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Jan 2016 #554
Poland needs external investment

Yes, but not external exploitation, Cheap or free industrial sites and cheap manpower have turned Poles into mercenary hirelings in their own country. Poles assembling foreign-designed and foreign-manufactured components. Supermarket cashiers fortced to wear Pampers because they're not allowed to take loo breaks. Foreign companies channelling the bulk of their Polish-earned profits abroad and re-investing in Poland only the very bare minimum needed for the business to keep ticking. Is that style of being "market-friendly" is what you want to continue indefinitely? The KOD leadership want things to remain precisely as described above. Foreign banks and corporations should rule and Poles should be grateful for the dead-end jobs they're given.

Poland needs to develop their own entrepreneurship, original designs and brands. The new government has set up a body to promote innovation. Perhaps that will help move things in that direction. And foreign banks and retail chains should be required to pay their fair share of taxes. They have certainly extracted enough cash from Poland over the past 26 years!
polishinvestor 1 | 362
13 Jan 2016 #555
Many developed countries have problems getting fair taxes from global giants. Its a compromise and something thats done over time. But while companies are making money in Poland they wont want to leave and thats the key to negotiations. Capitalism isnt perfect but its better than other realistic options. Poland has a huge pension deficit and and Poles little savings, so huge internal investment is impossible.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Jan 2016 #556
nternal investment is impossible.

At present. The quesiton is: are Poels doomed to remain an exploited neo-collonial country for allt ime? Why did previous governmet neglect to work towards building an indigenous Polish entrepreneurial class and settled instead for internal mercenary status?
polishinvestor 1 | 362
14 Jan 2016 #557
People were queuing for fresh fruit all day. The country has come a long way very quickly. You have to expect bumps along the way. Being poor with no future and staying poor with no future is now more of an option than before. Still a long way off Wedtern developed standards but that is to be expected for a story of expansion that really only started since the fall of communism. Just have to be careful not to isolate those that pull the strings. Poland is very good at working the EU system, it should continue to do so and do what is asked (usually within reason) or they will turn off the taps as they did for Greece.
pweeg3
14 Jan 2016 #558
building an indigenous Polish entrepreneurial class and settled instead for internal mercenary status?

There is something that a lot of people dont understand. When a company sets up a factory they aim to make 10% profit. 90% of the income goes into the factory as wages, taxes and cost..

Basically, the exploited workers are getting 9x the income of the evil capitalists. This feeds into the economy and makes a country rich and my extension its people
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
14 Jan 2016 #559
When a company sets up a factory they aim to make 10% profit. 90% of the income goes into the factory as wages, taxes and cost..

Polonius is your typical pre-1989 worker though. He thinks that the 'capitalists' are making 'obscene' profits at the expense of the workers. No-one ever mentions how Paweł turns up, presses buttons for 40 hours and goes home - and he doesn't have to worry about the factory or anything else. Meanwhile CEO Piotr has gone home to enjoy a nice glass of wine, only to have to go back to work at 23:00 because a lorry transporting their goods (and carrying their name) has just crashed into several cars on the Autostrada, killing 9, and the company name is now all over the 24/7 news channel and people want answers.

Perhaps if Polonius actually had experience of the real world, he would understand that there's a reason why we don't pay the button pusher the same salary as the CEO.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 Jan 2016 #560
'obscene' profits

They are obscene! Care to list what the CEOs of foreign banks, corporations, assembly operations, etc. earn? Is it merely the 3 to 5 times more that West Europeans make compared with Poles? I think not. The banks are grumbling becuase of an infinitesimal tax in the 0.00-something% catgory. They can certainly afford to minutely reduce their outrageous priofit margin without passing that on to customers. Even those greedy bastards must have at least a little speck of civic spirit and willingness to support the common good.
jon357 66 | 17,078
14 Jan 2016 #561
there's a reason why we don't pay the button pusher the same salary as the CEO.

Perhaps he preferred the days when salaries in Poland were less unequal.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
14 Jan 2016 #562
Even those greedy bastards must have at least a little speck of civic spirit and willingness to support the common good.

Ultimately the guy at the top is responsible for the companys bottom line. If profits are increased, he deserves an increase. If we are talking even just ten of millions increases, you have to reward him with a substantial increase or he will leave and work for the competition. Then you have the double whammy of having to choose a new CEO who is an unknown quantity (he may have sector experience but youve just seen your highly successful CEO leave, so relatively speaking its unknown) while your previous CEO who you didnt want to reward has gone to the competition and is likely to improve them which will eat into your profits next year.
Borsukrates 5 | 131
14 Jan 2016 #563
That Czech PM officially said there's nothing wrong with democracy in Poland and he doesn't understand what the fuss is about.

Czech Republic is in the middle of nowhere, south of the center of Europe. Good luck transporting goods through the Tatra Mountains! Czech Republic can afford to say stuff like that, because it's not in the geopolitical crashzone. When a war breaks between east and west, Czech Republic or Hungary can watch from the sidelines. They're not on the highly travelled path.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Jan 2016 #564
guy at the top

No-one is saying a CEO shouild earn4 or 5 or even 10K considering his overall responsibility for the company. But in Poland a CEO of a firm employing 500 people can earn over 40,000 zł a month. That is indecently high. Wouldn't 25 or even 20K be enough for him to live in the lap of luxury?

You seem overly concerned about ther salaries of "poor" CEOs whilst ignoring the multitudes who have trouble making ends meet.
jon357 66 | 17,078
15 Jan 2016 #565
Czech Republic can afford to say stuff like that, because it's not in the geopolitical crashzone.

Exactly. The two economies are vastly different as are the sizes of the respective populations.
Jardinero 1 | 407
15 Jan 2016 #566
Ultimately the guy at the top is responsible for the companys bottom line. If profits are increased, he deserves an increase.

Yes, but how much is that increase? If you leave it totally 'unregulated', the income gap within the society get so large, it will ultimately leads to dangerous social unbalance and unrest.

But in Poland a CEO of a firm employing 500 people can earn over 40,000 zł a month.

It is much worse in the home of the BigMac. Take a look at the historical data to see how much that gap has widened over the last decades there - it is frightening.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Jan 2016 #567
worse in the home of the BigMac

I certainly don't relish more Polish US-aping in the field of financial stratificaton as well as the wow! culture, fly-by-night fads, rap crap, junk food, drugs, homo marriage, guns, abortion of demand and a slew of others. But I would love to see Polish CEOs taking voluntary pay cuts to demonstrate the corporate social conscience and set a good example for other countries.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jan 2016 #568
Another day, and yet more bad news for PiS.

Since the election, the WIG20 has fallen from around 2100 at the time of the election to a mere 1743 today.

Furthermore, exchange rates today :

1EUR = 4.41PLN
1CHF = 4.02PLN
1USD = 4.02PLN

And worse...

1PLN = 6.13CZK
1PLN = 71.30HUF

The most shocking one is the fall against the Czech Koruna. On the 30th April, it was standing at 1PLN = 6.89CZK. But even against the Euro - we see that on the 30th April, it was 1 EUR = 3.99PLN. The markets are clearly not impressed with PiS.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
15 Jan 2016 #569
Another day, and yet more bad news for PiS.

hmm, give a two or three weeks more and there will be more of good news under new management in TV.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jan 2016 #570
Good news, as in more propaganda and less facts?

No doubt someone will soon be on TVP to tell us why an incredibly weak exchange rate means that Polish people can no longer enjoy imported products or go on foreign holidays, which is good because Patriotic Poles only buy Polish and holiday in Poland.

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