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Poland's post-election political scene


mafketis 24 | 9,387
8 Jan 2016 #481
the sidelining of Szydło has been massively unpopular with the younger female electorate.

PiS basically did a bait and switch using Duda and Szydło to lure naive young voters with the promise of a new start only to revert back to form (and then some).

They couldn't possibly make it clearer that Duda is a figurehead who's supposed to do whatever JK tells him and that Szydło isn't even that.

I'm not sure if they'll last four years but they're burning a lot of bridges and souring a lot of young voters on the very idea of democracy. A shameful legacy is what they'll leave, I expect.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
8 Jan 2016 #482
A shameful legacy is what they'll leave, I expect.

I think Kaczyński is trying to emulate the Orban example of controlling all the institutions so that he can control the next election, but I think he's made the fatal miscalculation that while Hungary was tolerated to a certain extent, Poland won't be. Orban is a minor irritant, but Hungary doesn't play any particular role in EU affairs. Poland is different, and the strong, strong reaction of European institutions towards Kaczyński says it all. I think they will survive 4 years because Kukiz will prop them up, but we can expect to see strong attack after strong attack on the media.

The icing on the cake will be when European companies start announcing that they're withdrawing from investments in Poland because of the political situation - Poles care about money far more than "patriotism", after all.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
8 Jan 2016 #483
shameful legacy

A shameful legacy was left by the oldboy scam & graft party PO that reserved advancement for their loyal elite. Now at last younger Poels will have wider access to the fruits of Poland's national harvest. As PM Szydło put it,"I want the average Pole to become the nation's elite."
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
8 Jan 2016 #484
Now at last younger Poels will have wider access to the fruits of Poland's national harvest.

Is that why PiS have appointed nothing but members of their network to prominent positions?

A shameful legacy was left by the oldboy scam & graft party PO that reserved advancement for their loyal elite.

It's funny how you openly accuse PO of doing exactly what PiS are doing. Very communist.

As PM Szydło put it,"I want the average Pole to become the nation's elite."

If that was even slightly true, why didn't PiS organise public competitions for all the top jobs?
Ironside 50 | 10,940
8 Jan 2016 #485
The guy is obviously one of Cameron's goons, and has had one too many bottles of plonk.

Actually he sorta get it. You on the other hand seems to be as dense as hardtack.

The problem with "Good Evening" is that everybody used that in the times of general Jaruzelski, whereas the phrase "conspiring with outside forces"

The crux of the matter here is not in phrases they used but in their meaning and general context. If words or a phrase describe reality accurately that in itself is a sufficient justification to use it. The only problem here is in your head not in the phrase.

And they're in trouble. Big trouble.

You are in a big trouble since you learned how to talk.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
8 Jan 2016 #486
public competitions

Becuase public competions as well as tenders are all fixed anyway. The highest briber wins.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
8 Jan 2016 #487
Isn't this a golden chance for PiS to start off in the right way?

Public competitions, judges taken from the best in Europe, objective and transparent decision making and processes and PiS would be flying in the polls instead of dropping like a stone.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Jan 2016 #488
judges taken from the best

Led of course by erstwhile PZPR stalwarth Rzepliński, I presume.
"Objective and transparent decision making and processes"? You mean such as those carried out by PO at cemetery rendez-vous or gourmet banquets at Sowa & Przyjaciele. Yes, you have an excellent role model to learn form.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
9 Jan 2016 #489
Polonius, can you explain why you seem to find the idea of a fair and transparent recruitment process to be a problem?

PiS have done exactly what they accused PO of - they've filled the halls of power with their own men and women.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Jan 2016 #490
fair and transparent recruitment process

Because I know of no party anywhere in the world that has done so, and PO was a worst offender than many.
After a decade of having Platformer scorn, contempt, disdain and derision copiously poured upon them, do you really expect PiS to treat the opposition with the kindness, warmth and cordiality normally accorded to a friend and ally?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
9 Jan 2016 #491
Because I know of no party anywhere in the world that has done so

Scandinavia would be a good place to start, as would the UK and Germany.

Imagine how difficult it would be to oppose a PiS plan where every senior civil servant had to be proven to be politically neutral, and where the deliberations between commission members were made public? It would certainly be nearly impossible for any future government to change such a policy, and Poland would have a UK or German style civil service where they serve the government, not the party.

Instead, PiS chose the path of nepotism, and they're being punished in the opinion polls for it.
Wulkan - | 3,250
9 Jan 2016 #492
And they're in trouble.

Oh no! Yes they are in trouble, there are elections in 4 years :-O
mafketis 24 | 9,387
9 Jan 2016 #493
PiS have done exactly what they accused PO of

This is the oldest trick in the book, accuse your enemies of what you yourself are doing. Then you can blame the negative consequences on your enemy instead of taking the blame yourself.

Take all the negative rhetoric about PiS from PO - That's a good benchmark for what PO was doing.

Take all the negative rhetoric about PO form PiS - That's a blueprint for what PiS wants to do.

Only the willfully self-deceiving can be fooled by this for long.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Jan 2016 #494
fooled by this for long

Unless you only know only world history by Mother Goose, this has been going on since the dawn of time and will continue until Judgement Day. It's called politics.
jon357 66 | 17,078
9 Jan 2016 #495
You may quicker find yourself deported from Poland to the Russian Federation than see any sanctions against the "current regime" of Poland.

Somehow I doubt that, on the one hand never having been to Russia and on the other hand being a citizen however you should be aware (but almost certainly aren't) of the range of different sanctions that the EU can use - and this has already been suggested.

Amazing how one dodgy regime elected by only 18% of the electorate can make such a mess of everything in such a short time. Basically, not one decision they have so far made has been welcomed by the public.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Jan 2016 #496
welcomed by the public

So to you the public are the chanty-ranty backers of the Komitet Obrony Koryta.
The Petrus, Lises, Schetynas, Kosher Gazettes and other rabble-rosuers notwithstanding, most Poles are willing to GIVE PiS A CHANCE!
Dogs will bark but the caravan moves steadily forward!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
9 Jan 2016 #497
most Poles are willing to GIVE PiS A CHANCE!

Except they aren't.

29.6% Nowoczesna
27.3% PiS
16.2% PO
7.0% Kukiz'15
5.4% ZL
4.5% PSL
3.3% Korwin
2.2% Razem
4.2% don't know

It's clear that they're dropping like a stone in the opinion polls.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Jan 2016 #498
Except they aren't

Weren't you the one who kept claiming polls are none too reliable. Except that was when your favourites were dropping. A typical Michnikite -- twist the truth and bend facts (even fabricate if you can get away with it) to suit your agenda.
jon357 66 | 17,078
9 Jan 2016 #499
It's clear that they're dropping like a stone in the opinion polls.

Aren't they just? I wonder if any other party in Poland has plummeted in popularity so soon after 'winning' an election. So far and without exception, every step they've taken has been a wrong move!
dolnoslask
9 Jan 2016 #500
"Poland has plummeted in popularity so soon after 'winning' an election" quite possibly in Europe, but not with other slavic nations, but there again who gives a stuff about Europe. not many and getting fewer.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Jan 2016 #501
a wrong move

A wrong move for those pushed away from the trough, the post-nomenklatura entitlement crowd who have lined their pockets for 25 years and robbed Poland blind. They've stolen their fill in Poland, now let them find another hapless victim

-- the big, wide world awaits!.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
9 Jan 2016 #502
So far and without exception, every step they've taken has been a wrong move!

The only example I can think of is the Olszewski government, but that didn't enjoy anything resembling popular support in the first place. Possibly Mazowiecki's government was also very poorly seen after a year or so, but certainly nothing in modern political times (if we take 1993 as being the start of more sensible politics).

Even the PiS 2005-2007 government wasn't so unpopular until Kaczyński got rid of Marcinkiewicz.

Notice how Polonius is openly celebrating the fact that PiS are now able to steal, plunder and manipulate Poland for all it's worth.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
9 Jan 2016 #503
A wrong move for those pushed away from the trough, the post-nomenklatura entitlement crowd who have lined their pockets for 25 years and robbed Poland blind.

The more you write things like that the more I think you want PiS to rob Poland blind.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
9 Jan 2016 #504
I thought that was obvious years ago. Most of his comments are very much rooted in the TKM philosophy.
Wulkan - | 3,250
10 Jan 2016 #505
fact that PiS are now able to steal, plunder and manipulate Poland for all it's worth.

Your demagoguery has not limits. Fortunately nobody is buying it.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
10 Jan 2016 #506
1993 as being the start of more sensible politics).

So you have finally had your political "coming-out" and admitted to being a crypto-commie. 1993 was when the full nomenklatura gang took over Poland's government and two year's later were backed by their own commie president Kwaśniewski. The scam and and theft clique set the stage for the PO crowd that followed in their footsteps and actually outscammed the ex-commies.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 Jan 2016 #507
Not sure what you're blabbering about now Polonius, as I was only referring to the fact that things were more stable politically - fewer parties and more stable coalitions.

Still, looks like according to you, PiS have taken it to the ultimate level by swiftly removing everyone else from any sort of power and replacing it entirely with their own people. The looting and plundering of Poland, aka TKM, can now take place unopposed by any pesky workers that might oppose them.
Wulkan - | 3,250
10 Jan 2016 #508
PiS have taken it to the ultimate level by swiftly removing everyone else from any sort of power and replacing it entirely with their own people.

The best way to rule that way to prove you are right rather than being constantly interrupted by opposition for whole 4 years.
cms 9 | 1,271
10 Jan 2016 #509
I have stayed out of this debate - my reaction on election night was that there were enough checks and balances in the system to ensure nothing drastic happens.

Now I am getting really concerned and many investors the same - for me the most worrying thing is the bringing in of people with zero experience and often very young (some just out of college) to run institutions. This can create lasting damage - of course its partly PO's fault for not reforming this system of party patronage when they had 8 years clear run to do it.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
10 Jan 2016 #510
This can create lasting damage - of course its partly PO's fault for not reforming this system of party patronage when they had 8 years clear run to do it.

Yep, most of the charges against PO are baseless hysteria, but they really can be blamed for not doing more to create a non-partisan civil service, it's a non-negotiable in civilization evolution.

The problem is that it is not at all clear that the Polish public understands the importance of such institutions or would want them even if they did understand.

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