Poland's post-election political scene

I hope not and very much doubt it it will - with it's history of lies, manipulations and opinions instead of facts it is bound to die out

Looks like you prefer to ignore the vile Pawlowicz's idea to go after journalists next...

Pawłowicz is not the one setting tone to PiS policies even if she is very vocal

What a pathetic, weasly, silly little answer. So you're trying to deny she's one of their best known politicians.

When someone with her role in the party, a very prominent member of parliament, stands up and talks about going after journalists, people should be very worried.

And they are. The latest survey shows that 87% of people in Poland believe democracy is seriously threatened at the moment.

Pawłowicz is not holding favours of Kaczyński - she barely convinced him to give her a taking position before the last election

Utterly and absolutely irrelevant. When a member of parliament in that party(one of the best known and most widely loathed ones) says that they're going after journalists, people should (and do) take that very seriously indeed.

Whenever lame 'arguments' you use to try to dodge out of that.

If you haven't heard Schetyna just promised that if they win the next election he will introduce the law that will put those MP's who voted for the PiS Supreme Court bill for 5 years in prison (breaking the rule that law is not retroactive and that MP's have an immunity on the issues they vote for) - is PiS supposed to be affraid??

i have very little knowledge of Irish history, but whenever any country is occupied by a foreign power, there are always some renegades who support the occupiers usually out of self-interest. Prior to Eire's indepdndence, you must've had some Irish who collabroated with the British, Knowing how fiercely patrtoic the Irish tend to be, I can only assume such collaborators were regarded as turncoats and outcasts.

And there was me thinking that PiS supporters enjoyed the idea of parliament controlling legal process...

It would be interesting to see their own 'principles' turned back on them...

Is a liability for PiS. She must have some metabolic disorder because she's always munching on something, sandwich, cake, etc. in palriament, at conferences or pressers. Pawłowicz would better fit in the rumpus-raisers' faction where there are many more of her kind -- brash, pushy, screechy, tasteless and lacking in class. Oh well, in a party of so many sterling patriots, one rotten apple is understandable.


Under the former post-commie rule, the KRS was an elite accountable only to themselves. How is that democratic solution? None of the ranters nor their leaders saw fit to explain that anomaly.

That's exactly where she is. A member of parliament and part of the PiS junta

and they were the body who appointed new judges - completely without any democratic control

Evidently you prefer Party control, just like the old days...

Fortunately most people prefer an independent judiciary, hence 87% of people in Poland expressing their concern about the erosion of democracy this week

I prefer democratic control - no party in Poland has at the moment a monopole on governing and PiS is neither willing nor in power to change it

as far as I know judges in the US for example are democratically electer (regular judges) and the Supreme Court judges are directly appointed by the President and approved by the Senate - in Poland there was no control over the judiciary circles so far and this led to many scandals and unfair rulings

One is very much trying too manipulate the system to obtain one party rule - the whole point of this discussion is about their blatant attempt at a coup d' etat. Perhaps you've missed that somehow, just as you've somehow missed the thousands attending Polish pro--democracy rallies.


Neither are directly appointed nor can be arbitrarily dismissed by the Party of the day. Something else you've missed.


I'm sure that even you don't think that judges who depend on the patronage of the screamer Kaczynski, the deranged Macierewicz or the sinister Ziobro are likely to be less rather than more scandalous and unfair

Which is why thousands are turning out on the streets each evening, and why 87% of Poles are concerned that democracy is being eroded.

You have no valid argument here, none at all.

It is interesting that apparently Ziobro has gone into defense mode - saying that no the purpose is not to overturn election results that displease the current government.... Protest too much?

You mean 87% of Gazeta wyborcza tabloid readers.

Far too much. What he's trying to do is transparent. It looks like it could be over for the current regime, and he's trying to present himself as a moderate and more credible (i.e. electable) figure.

Yes jon, it's very much looking like game over for Ziobro, and for his criminal plans. We can confidently predict that Polonious and others will soon be eating humble pie, and let's hope that Article 7 is not invoked for collective punishment.

History shows that when people consistently go on the streets, rogue legislation is toast. And when PIS are defeated, a whole crowd of them will beliable to criminal proceedings. We look forward to that day.

I understand you don't like these people - I on the other hand hold them in respect and especially Ziobro seems to me to be a benevolent person willing to fight injustice and yes I believe that if PiS were to appoint judges (which is not exactly the case according to those laws passed) they would be much more just then the current lot who are an authority unto themselves and of whom plenty show little to no morals and often outright contempt to a simple man

Millions don't. Thousands of ordinary people come out on the streets against them nightly.


A sinister and cynical careerist. Do you remember the scandal about the laptop?


Remember it isn't just appointing. It's hiring and firing by the ruling party directly, thereby placing them under soviet style Party patronage. There's a good reason that democracies have mechanisms whereby this does not happen.

hiring and firing is only meant for the authority figures of courts (prezesi i przewodniczący wydziałów) and the unrestricted hiring and firing of them according to the new law is limited to the intermediary period of 6 months after the introduction of the law - then it is going to be regulated

anyway still I would rather have a system when in democracy a ruling party appoints judges than that judges are an authority unto themselves - ultimately I'm all for democratic election of judges

I understand you don't like the rule of the people and prefer the rule of the elites - it's the exact oposite with me

Amusing article in the Kosher Gazette that Solidarnosc boss Piotr Duda has noted that firing all the judges and assistants and interns breaks the Kodeks Pracy - precisely the type of legislative error you get when so called lawyers start work half cut at 9 in the evening.

Kodeks Pracy should not include civil servants in my opinion

You still fail utterly and spectacularly to get the point of a stable democracy. Why would they even want a period like that, unless they were going to fire any not under their patronage.


By whom?


You're still missing the point. There's a reason that democracies don't do this.

Evidently you dislike the idea of parliamentary democracy and prefer authoritarian one party rule, something Poland once had.

I'm actually in favour of completely direct democracy - let the people rule and make the laws not the elites - people will learn from it much more than in the current situation - but for now I approve of the PiS government and I don't see them as an authoritarian force and I believe they respect democracy much more than the ones who ruled previously and what is also important they are willing to fight corruption and fraud - I guess you believe they are cynical, maybe they are to an extent but not in the order of PO and PSL

"Direct democracy"

Kind of takes me back to that well-known riposte of Gandhi's when asked his opinion of Western Civilization: "Sounds like a marvelous idea, why doesn't somebody try it?"

))))

So you should be happy with the existing system that the PiS junta desperately want to replace.


You're probably the only person who believes that, if you actually do believe that. Everything they say, everything they do is deeply authoritarian.

Other millions do. How do you reconcile the poll about the threat of democracy (if it hadn't been manipulated) with the fact that PiS still enjoys over 35 per cent support in the latest polls

Not my job to reconcile this very good (and not manipulated) poll. Remember that many of the thousands coming out every evening to protest the PiS junta's attack on democracy were people who initially voted for them.

But hey, if you prefer a far-right authoritarian theocratic state, no amount of common sense, logic or decency is likely to change that.