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Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment?


Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #1
ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42454

The German North Sea offshore area, known as Wattenmeer, or Wadden Sea, is a fragile biological habitat. It is the only home to more than 4,000 animal species, and as much flora. In addition, the region is the seasonal stopover for some 12 million migratory birds.

Due to ecological opposition from all the countries involved, the pipeline project, a joint venture of the Russian gas giant Gazprom and several German energy companies which started in late 2005, has so far not obtained a single construction permit.

Ecology is the most important in modern world.

We need to be sure that this project is not dangerous for our beautiful baltic sea.

after hundrets of years when human was destroying our beautiful nature it is time for change.
celinski 31 | 1,258
27 May 2008  #2
This is so true. What is needed is oversight for the sea. I can't believe not one permit has been pulled. When we look at the location of work it's not like citizens can see wrong doing and stop them. The sad part is damage can be done without the workers even knowing they are doing it. What may seem harmless can really be killing off full species.
Polson 5 | 1,771
27 May 2008  #3
Ecology is the most important in modern world

I agree.

We need to be sure that this project is not dangerous for our beautiful baltic sea.

I love the Baltic Sea...

But Poland is against that project, as well as the Baltic States, Sweden (again ;)), Finland...
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #4
yes Celinski you are totaly right.

We need to fight to save our beutiful sea. What is interesting at the end of WWII Germans were sinking ammunition and other dangerous weapons at the bottom of sea. I just can't imagine what would happen if durring construction of Nordstream this weapons would expolode. What is more piple line may be dangerous form many other reasons for balitic sea.

But Poland is against that project, as well as the Baltic States, Sweden (again ;)), Finland...

Because this countries love baltic sea.

Now we need to check the influence of this project on ecosytems.

foki
celinski 31 | 1,258
27 May 2008  #5
This is some scary stuff. It list the differant threats and who had what. Very interesting and it looks as if the best thing to do is leave it alone. Check this out. Carol

ENVIRONMENTAL THREATS POSED BY THE SEA-DUMPED AND EARTH-BURIED
CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN THE CENTRAL-EUROPEAN AND BALTIC REGION

prague2003.fsu.edu/content/pdf/232.pdf
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #6
Poles the eco warriors??? That's new! :)

Interesting site:

nord-stream.com/

They seem to be right in the plan:

nord-stream.com/milestones.html
Polson 5 | 1,771
27 May 2008  #7
BB, i'm sure Germans like nature too ;)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #8
nord-stream.com/environment.html

I really doubt the Poles would care about environment if the problem would be a...say...american missile station....

It's the Nordstream project they object...for that they use all possible arguments!
They don't really give a fyck about the the environment!
Harry
27 May 2008  #9
I can't believe not one permit has been pulled.

That's because you can't read properly. No permits have been pulled because no permits have been issued yet.
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #10
BB it is link form Nordstream website ... be serious.

Firstly Baltic sea is our common wealth and we should all sit down and think what we can do to save what we have.

As to Poles being natural eco warriors.

Our Bialowieski National Park was one of first in Europe. (As I remeber Sweden was first)

Not only we habe some objections, Sweden Lithuania Estonia. We want to check if it is not dangerous for enviroment.

bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601095&sid=admbOLaboKi4&refer=east_europe

May 27 (Bloomberg) -- AEuropean Parliament committee said OAO Gazprom's planned underwater pipeline between Russia and Germany poses a ``serious'' environmental threat, compounding the political hurdles for the $12 billion project.

Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #11
Problem is I don't trust you about your motives!

Fact Poland has not an image as being overly concerned about environmental issues - contrary to the Germans I might add!
I just don't believe you if you are starting crying so suddenly when suddenly the Nord Stream project is concerned!

And I really trust german high-tech more to preserve and secure our environment than someone else - they are subject to the highest standards and have to fulfill the most grizzly terms and conditions before they are allowed to lay a brick down here in Germany!

We have an influential environmental party in the government for fycks sake!

PS: Where is the polish "green" party?
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #12
the problem is that europe don't trust for Germans.

The petitions committee called on EU governments and the European Commission, the EU's regulatory arm, ``to use every legal means at their disposal'' to reduce the project's scale.The committee approved the resolution by a vote of 26 to 3.

German members of the committee failed to win backing for a series of amendments that would have toned down the concerns expressed in the resolution. Efforts to soften the language may continue because amendments can be put to the full Parliament, where Germany's members outnumber those of any other EU country.

it is form link I have posted before.

We need to sit down and think what we should do in this case. Check if this project is eco frieindly and make decision.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #13
the problem is that europe don't trust for Germans.

Europe??? You mean Poland.

We have no problems with "Europe"!

We need to sit down and think what we should do in this case.

Why don't you be honest Lukasz?
You and your likes want to torpedo ANY cooperation between Russia and Germany - this time it's the Nord Stream, tomorrow? Who knows....
(But on the other hand demanding your right to make bilateral military deals with the US, even as your neighbours are concerned about that too...)

You are being paranoid! And if it helps you to scream "Environment" then you will!
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #14
so why you have lost in vote.

The problem is that you want to make business without taking care about natural enviroment. What is more it seems that this project may be dangerous for OUR EUROPEAN Balitc sea.

We need to check fo everything is alright.
celinski 31 | 1,258
27 May 2008  #15
I really trust german high-tech

Who's to say it's German, Polish or American working. Just because a country has the work.

they are subject to the highest standards and have to fulfill the most grizzly terms and conditions

This sounds as if they understand and will want the best of the best.

That's because you can't read properly

Harry have a cup of coffee, "several German energy companies which started in late 2005, has so far not obtained a single construction permit."
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #16
so why you have lost in vote.

We have lost nothing!

The Nord Stream is underway and I have heard NOTHING so far which will endanger the build...get used to it!
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #17
We don't talk about politics. THIS PROJECT SEEMS TO BE REALLY DANGEROUS for our balitc sea.

All we want to do is to check it. It is too risky for our common bussiness Polish German Swedish to have such a dangorous pipeline in our sea.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #18
As I said...I don't trust your motives...
celinski 31 | 1,258
27 May 2008  #19
I don't feel the sea is owned by anyone country, it therefore belongs to the Nation. I would think this would make you feel good that there's concern for the envirorment?
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #20
As I said...I don't trust your motives...

Firstly you sugest that this pipe line is German penalty for American anti-missile system.

Now you don't trust in somebody intentions.

Don't you trust Sweden ?

Don't you trust Estonia ?

We all want to know if this project is eco friendly.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #21
I would think this would make you feel good that there's concern for the envirorment?

It isn't about the environment - it's about building obstacles to a closer co-operation between Russia and Germany!

Just imagine a similiar project between the US and Poland - can't you hear all the nice
and important arguments Poland would bring in FAVOUR?
If Poland could secure his energy and independence from Germany and Russia through a pipeline to the US - do you really think they would give a fyck about the environment of the Baltic Sea??? Puleeeeeeeze!
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
27 May 2008  #22
As I said...I don't trust your motives...

Why should people trust your motives Lukasz. You have taken an interesting and topical subject and, by the 4th post, somehow related it to what terrible things the Germans did in WWII. Poland isn't the only country with a say in the Baltics future. There are other parties at the table.

I don't feel the sea is owned by anyone country, it therefore belongs to the Nation.

An interesting thought celinski, could you please explain exactly which 'Nation' it therefore belongs to
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #23
Poland isn't the only country with a say in the Baltics future. There are other parties at the table.

in 4th post I have noticed that Germans have sunk weapons at the bottom of this sea. And now they want to build there someting. When it is impossible to clean balitic sea in safe way.

The pipeline would run through the economic zones of Scandinavian countries including Sweden whose permission is needed. Swedes have voiced concerns that the pipeline may unsettle an area littered with mines from two world wars, hinder shipping, disrupt fishing and deter tourists.

Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #24
And they are right with this...but don't you think Nord Stream has the same concerns???
Don' you think they research the way BEFORE and look for mines and such and clearing that up??? Do you think they are stupid or what???

Who knows...when the Nord Stream workers need a cleared path doesn't it mean that a big part of the Baltic get's cleared for the first time since the war of dangerous elements? That would be a good thing, wouldn't it?
djf 18 | 166
27 May 2008  #25
Most of the objections for the project arent due to environmental concerns but political and possible economic factors with regard to Russia's control of energy resources.

All countries with sea boundaries have been dumping waste and pumping raw sewage into the waters for many years so maybe they should focus on these 'real' environmental problems.

Ecosystems are dynamic and will evolve with their environment.
celinski 31 | 1,258
27 May 2008  #26
do you really think they would give a fyck about the environment of the Baltic Sea???

Yes, I would pray they would see this as a # one priority. If they didn't the USA has many watch groups that would be screaming. All the money in the world won't mean a thing if we kill ourselves off.

When you look at this close it's more Germany vs. being Russia that could be hurt. And truthfully I never even heard of this disposal until today. I need to read more of the whole risk to the sea before taking a stance. I do feel the way the earth changes with global warming, today's sea could be next weeks land and this consideration should be held into account. Just think Bratwrust I may be melted to your house for coffee next year.
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
27 May 2008  #27
A considerable amount of nutrients and toxic substances are discharged to the Baltic Sea from Poland.

Baltic Sea Area

baltic.vtt.fi/demo/balful.html
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,749
27 May 2008  #28
Ok Bratwurst if we talk about everything.

spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,551448,00.html

Details of the 20-page CDU policy paper, to be voted on this week by the party, are still being developed, but main author Andreas Schockenhoff -- deputy chair of the party's parliamentary group -- gave a preview in the German foreign policy magazine Internationale Politik.

In the essay, Schockenhoff argues for Germany to take steps to better protect itself from the threat of a nuclear attack from rogue states, saying it must support "a missile defense shield over Europe."

as to shield. It seems that Germany support this project. And Merkel is USA ally. Isn't she ? So what is your problem. Maybe you are one of Iran supporters denying Holocaust ?

as to ecology all we want to do is to check if it has influence or not on natural environment.
celinski 31 | 1,258
27 May 2008  #29
when the Nord Stream workers need a cleared path doesn't it mean that a big part of the Baltic get's cleared for the first time

CWC feels it is safer to not touch it.

The long-term environmental threats can be considered as significantly lower as compared with the risks of lifting the corroded items, transportation and destruction according to the current workplace safety and environmental protection standards as required by the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC).

prague2003.fsu.edu/content/pdf/232.pdf
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,750
27 May 2008  #30
Maybe you are one of Iran supporters dening Holocaust ?

What???

As I said...so much for your true interest in the environment...yeah sure...I KNEW IT!

A considerable amount of nutrients and toxic substances are discharged to the Baltic Sea from Poland.



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