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Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment?


Dekameron 1 | 146
30 Sep 2008 #61
It's the Nordstream project they object...for that they use all possible arguments!
They don't really give a fyck about the the environment!

Ah but the enviroment is extremely important, in fact its more important than some pipeline :)))))))

We the polish with our green cities and stuff are at the forefront of this pro-nature movement.
Pohlatohlakas - | 19
28 Nov 2008 #62
Please support an appeal against Nord Stream pipeline!

in polish: balticsea.lt/pl
in english: balticsea.lt/en

The text of the appeal is available in several other languages as well.

You can see the full link by googling RATUJMY MORZE BA£TYCKIE DOPÓKI NIE JEST ZA PÓ-NO!.

Please inform your friends, colleagues, and relatives in Poland & abroad about this petition and spread the word in the internet! Please also create anti-pipeline communities or user groups in social networks such like Orkut, Facebook etc.

Let's say NO! together to the new Molotov-Ribbentrop (Putin-Schröder) Pact!
Prince 15 | 590
28 Nov 2008 #63
Polish Coast ,Baltic Sea



Foka Depka w Rewalu


Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
28 Nov 2008 #64
Let's say NO! together to the new Molotov-Ribbentrop (Putin-Schröder) Pact!

Funny guys!

You are claiming loudly that you want to save the environment and are scared about some munitions dumps but at the same time undermine good and acceptable reasons by irrational political scare mongering which has NOTHING to do with real concerns, hence making your appeal an easily seen through joke!

You just can't stop shooting yourself in the foot, can't you...
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
28 Nov 2008 #65
I have read recently that the Russians seem to have some problems with the funds for the Nord Stream Project. Maybe there won't be any need for a pettition after all. ;)
Pohlatohlakas - | 19
29 Nov 2008 #66
Well, I made a pretty emotional comparison. It doesn't, however, void any environmental arguments.

BTW, the Baltic Sea has been listed by the IMO (International Maritime Organization) as one of the particularly sensitive sea areas. A swedish study confirms that the Baltic Sea has never been in such a bad condition as it is right now. A quarter of the sea bed shows no sign of life. (The Local, 2 Nov 08) Seaborne oil tranport is expected to rise. So, do we really need more load to the sea environment? Oh yes, this pipeline is sooooo environmentally friendly...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
29 Nov 2008 #67
I have read recently that the Russians seem to have some problems with the funds for the Nord Stream Project. Maybe there won't be any need for a pettition after all. ;)

Yeah....and soon Germany will invent the totally-natural-resource-free energy anyhow!

(...till then we are just playing dead)

Well, I made a pretty emotional comparison. It doesn't, however, void any environmental arguments.

As if you really care...

Don't you get it? Your "ohmygodtheywantogangupagainlikeMolotovandRibbentrop"
blew your "greenpeace" excuse!
Prince 15 | 590
14 Dec 2008 #68
Now we need to play our cards in one direction and I know direction we should play ... :)

Is that EU ?

alternative goes throught Baltic states ... "aliance" with Russia is closer and closer

petroleum-economist.com/default.asp?page=14&PubID=46&ISS=23383&SID=673855

Nord Stream's offshore route is unnecessarily expensive, environmentally dangerous and represents an opportunity for the EU to defend its ground against Russia, writes Robert Amsterdam

The subsea route proposed by Nord Stream's developers is unnecessary: there is a cheaper and far more environmentally satisfactory route - overland through Poland. Yet the Nord Stream consortium appears to leave regulators without a choice of where the pipeline will be laid because it does not highlight this obvious alternative

It is simple fact.

And it's not just industrial waste. Following World War II, virtually the entire chemical arsenal of Nazi Germany was dumped (more...), with much of it -- at least 35,000 tons -- ending up on the floor of the Baltic Sea. Hundreds of thousands of tons of chemical weapons from the Soviet Union, Britain and the United States were also chucked overboard in the northern Atlantic, North Sea, and elsewhere, including the Baltic. The poisonous weapons -- including mustard gas, phosphorus, nerve gas, and other highly toxic chemicals -- were joined by hundreds of thousands of unused bombs, mines and grenades.

Sweden Says No to Nord Stream Pipeline

warsawvoice/view/19505

Sweden has refused building permission for the planned Nord Stream gas pipeline under the Baltic Sea. This is the second rebuttal for the German-Russian consortium planning to build the underwater pipeline linking Russia and Germany by 2011. To go ahead with the project, the consortium needs permission from Sweden to work within its territorial waters.

(antoher countries against Nord Stream)

German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,579677,00.html

A US diplomat has denounced the controversial Baltic natural gas pipeline as "a special arrangement between Germany and Russia." His remarks have ruffled feathers in Berlin and highlighted growing US-German tensions over relations with Russia.

Sweden to join forces against Nord Stream
baltictimes.com/news/articles/19946

VILNIUS - Lithuania and Sweden have agreed to bolster cooperation to protect the Baltic Sea from possible environmental effects of the projected Nord Stream gas pipeline. The countries' environment ministers, Arturas Paulauskas and Andreas Carlgren, agreed in Brussels on March 3. Paulauskas, who recently took the position, expressed fears that the planned construction of the pipeline on the sea bottom could move the World War II-era weapons buried in the seabed, thus jeopardizing the mariti ...

Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
6 Jan 2009 #69
Well..I think the argument "Ukraine" will help the Nord Stream alot....:)

spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,599637,00.html

...The row between Gazprom and Kiev over the price of Russian gas has started to have a knock-on effect in Europe. Many countries, including Turkey, Bulgaria and Austria, are suffering major disruptions to their gas supplies...

Ryszard - | 89
6 Jan 2009 #70
Actually, after this Russian compromitation EU should immediately cancel nord stream project and put all the resources into the Nabucco project.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
6 Jan 2009 #71
Erm..sure...put some more trust into Ukraine to get the gas to Europe...sure....why not...
Ryszard - | 89
6 Jan 2009 #72
Hi, BB, ignorant as usual I see.
Quote from wikipedia, just for you:

The Nabucco pipeline is a planned natural gas pipeline that will transport natural gas from Turkey to Austria, via Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary

Whoops. No Ukraine there.
Not if that anything changes anyway, as this mess is mr. Gasputin imperialistic politics fault, Ukraine is mere victim of it. As half of Europe now too.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
6 Jan 2009 #73
Hi, BB, ignorant as usual I see.

Ignorant? I wish...but it's really hard ignoring Ukraine warming herself with western european gas she never paid for!

The Nabucco pipeline is a planned natural gas pipeline that will transport natural gas from Turkey to Austria, via Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary

why Germany are against Nabucco pipe line which avoids Russia (goes throught Ukriane).

Ask Lukasz...

I have nothing against "Nabucco"...the more diversity the less chances to cut off dependent countries as it just happens because of the Ukraines fault.

Germany takes actually part in it already with RWE....
Problems may occure when Ukraine really joins the Nabucco project:

[blog.kievukraine.info/2007/01/ukraine-wants-in-on-nabucco-pipeline.html]

Ukraine Wants In On Nabucco Pipeline

en.rian.ru/world/20070117/59261130.html

Ukraine may join Nabucco pipeline bypassing Russia

KIEV, January 17 (RIA Novosti) - Ukraine's prime minister said Wednesday the government is considering bidding for a contract for the construction of a trans-Caspian pipeline to pump Central Asian natural gas to Europe, bypassing Russia.

Speaking in the Turkish capital of Ankara, Viktor Yanukovych said: "We will be actively involved in oil and gas projects wherever Ukraine's bids win. We will use our capacities and take part in projects like Nabucco."

Yeah sure...

Ukraine is mere victim of it

Maybe in your world...in the rest of the world not paying for a product is called THEFT!

There is Nabucco, there is South Stream, there will be Nord Stream - the more diversity the less dependancy on one pipeline only the better!
outintheyard 27 | 517
6 Jan 2009 #74
This pipe line through the sea as mapped is typical corrupt stupidity with no care for the future. How are they going to keep it from corroding. I would think that cost alone would be prohibitive. On land the observation of the pipe will be much more easily done. Save the planet It is the only one we have.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
6 Jan 2009 #75
Save the planet It is the only one we have.

Agreed!

But Germany has no common border with Russia...and what happens if you are dependent on a transfer country you can observe right now!
outintheyard 27 | 517
6 Jan 2009 #76
Good point, however the land route just seems more feasible . In the sea seems to be that of hiding it and never seeing it again maybe a compromise and only partial sea and more land?
Ryszard - | 89
6 Jan 2009 #77
Maybe in your world...in the rest of the world not paying for a product is called THEFT!

Because what? Because Gazputin said that? Don't make me laugh.
In Poland, we used to say: "jest prawda, półprawda i gówno prawda" (there is truth, half-truth, and bulls**t truth). We used to, because nowadays we are saying "jest prawda, półprawda i gazprom prawda"

There is Nabucco, there is South Stream, there will be Nord Stream - the more diversity the less dependancy on one pipeline only the better!

You can have thousand of streams, but there won't be real diversity if they all will be pumping gas from the very some place: mother Russia. That's why nord stream is such an absurd, only Nabucco would give real diversity.

But Germany has no common border with Russia...and what happens if you are dependent on a transfer country you can observe right now!

What you can observe now is what happens when you depend only on russian gas...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
6 Jan 2009 #78
So...you want to say Ukraine paid???

What you can observe now is what happens when you depend only on russian gas...

Well...they have it....does Poland have something to sell?

Apropos Ukraine and the current gas row...just came about an interesting article:

spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,599796,00.html

If the author is right then the Ukraine isn't p*issing off Russia for the sake of it but they CAN'T pay...they just don't have the money!

Now that changes alot...if there isn't stupidity or maliciousness behind it but pure need than they should get help!

...The Ukrainian government and the state-controlled company Naftogaz have not been dragging their heels on paying Russia due to political motives, but rather because they simply don't have the money -- neither Naftogaz nor Ukraine itself.
The country is caught in a deep economic crisis.
The production of steel, its most important export, has already been reduced by a quarter. Now foreign currency reserves are shrinking, while inflation and unemployment are rising. Meanwhile companies are experiencing huge drops in revenues and profits....

They should have said so....
Ryszard - | 89
6 Jan 2009 #79
Leaving aside the quotes from the german Putin's claqueurs...

cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/05/ukraine.russia.gas.explainer/index.html

Gazprom claimed Ukraine's gas company -- Naftogaz Ukrainy -- owed it more than $2 billion in missed payments and fines. However, Naftogaz says it has paid the bill and Gazprom is trying to force it to accept a new price for gas which it cannot afford.

Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
6 Jan 2009 #80
Read the link to the article I posted, is much more plausible..
Ryszard - | 89
6 Jan 2009 #81
Because it's Spiegel? LOL
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
6 Jan 2009 #82
Sounds plausible...it's not that they don't want to, they can't pay!
outintheyard 27 | 517
6 Jan 2009 #83
Ok Forget the whole gas thing and go wind or solar or build another nuke in Lithuania on the Baltic
Ryszard - | 89
7 Jan 2009 #84
Putin admitted that it was Russia who completely shut down the ukraine pipe.
So...any comments? from his faithful German lackeys, perhaps?
Do they still dream that when they build their uber baltic pipe, it would protect them from anything?
Or maybe they've finally opened their eyes, and draw the only one logical conclusion: Russia is not trustworthy partner for any serious business
Because if Russians shut down the pipe like this today, they can - and will - do it tommmorow. Anytime, anyplace, if only they find it advantageous for their imperialistic politics.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
7 Jan 2009 #85
Putin admitted that it was Russia who completely shut down the ukraine pipe.
So...any comments? from his faithful German lackeys, perhaps?

He didn't had anything to admit Rys...it was announced before that Russia would do it as it is their right.
You can't really expect an unpaid free ride for Ukraine, don't you?

Do they still dream that when they build their uber baltic pipe, it would protect them from anything?

Well...we would pay accordingly to the treaties so we would get our gas, it's actually a good thing for all sides concerned, ya know?

Russia is not trustworthy partner for any serious business

Remind me again...who is not paying???

Oh and Germany is Russias biggest trading partner in Europe..we make serious good business quite well, thank you!

Because if Russians shut down the pipe like this today, they can - and will - do it tommmorow. Anytime, anyplace, if only they find it advantageous for their imperialistic politics.

...or if you don't pay the negotiated price!
Ryszard - | 89
7 Jan 2009 #86
He didn't had anything to admit Rys...it was announced before that Russia would do it as it is their right.
You can't really expect an unpaid free ride for Ukraine, don't you?

Frankly, I don't give a damn if Ukraine really paid or not - because if Russia wanted to play fair with their EU partners then she would not shut the pipe off, at the very least not so quickly and decisive.

It is obvious that sooner or later Russia and Ukraine are fated to sign new contract - until then, EU being warned could brace yourself for the troubles.

Ah, and they could ask for EU observers before shutting down the pipe to confirm that - as they claim - Ukraine is really stealing the gas. They didn't do it. Why? The answer is obvious... because EU observers would notice that with Ukraine transit everything is fine...

Remind me again...who is not paying???

Remind me again... who is claiming that Ukraine did not pay?
The same liars from Gazprom, who whole day were claiming that they didn't shut the pipe today until Putin finally said that "yes, they did"?

Oh and Germany is Russias biggest trading partner in Europe..we make serious good business quite well, thank you!

Till some day, when the leash will be short and strong enough - and then Putin will say: sit! And the german doggies will obey...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
7 Jan 2009 #87
I don't give a damn if Ukraine really paid or not

Well...that's the core of the whole bruhaha!
You should think about it before you start to throw around your political blames...

And the german doggies will obey...

Maybe we should then just cut off our negotiated delivery of german goods? :)

Because that's what this "leash" is about. They pay good money for "Made in
Germany
"!
Ryszard - | 89
7 Jan 2009 #88
Maybe we should then just cut off our negotiated delivery of german goods? :)

Don't worry, they will always get tons of better ones - from Japan, UK, USA or even China :) But with bratwurst could be a problem... or not? Maybe Austrian would help... bratwurst from Austria, hmm...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
7 Jan 2009 #89
Don't worry, they will always get tons of better ones

Why don't they buy those instead???
Sorry if the reality disturbs your fantasy world...:)
Ryszard - | 89
7 Jan 2009 #90
Why don't they buy those instead???

And you think they don't buy them now?
If push comes to shovel all they'll have to do is to buy them even more. Instead all that "assembled in germany" (but made in china, though) thingies :)

Now, be a good pet and get back to your training. You don't want to dissapoint your russian masters, do you?


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