Should Poland made an energy bridge deal with Russia?

Please read post #11 for an explanation...it was more a matter of pragmatism as it isn't your country dependable on b*itching neighbours being cut off the much needed energy too when those neighbours have a dispute...again...

In Poland are one of the biggest deposits of gas. We won`t consume it for 100 years.

Then they should go for it...

Perhaps I assumed too much when I assumed it would be more expensive to go underwater.
Is it cheaper?


That's three years ago BB, is Tusk liked in Germany?


Why not or is it just hot air? :)

In the long run yes, no fee to pay for Ukraine and Poland to use their soil.


Quite, yes. He is seen as serious politician.
It's also with Tusk there is now an agreement that Poland will get gas from the pipeline too if they so wish, something the terrible twins were also dead set against!

It just seems more like a game of geopolitical chess but I could be wrong.


The people I talk to here also see him as a better face for Poland. That is not to say that he is not scrutinised at every turn but when people talk about Politics here you have to read between the lines as it is generally quite negative.

Well, diversifying your energy resources is a smart thing to do....what would you had done if you were in Germany's boots?
We were the victims of regular soviet/ukrainian/polish spats with regularly being cut off from the energy too...


Well, I'm not an insider in polish domestic politics but I really wonder how Poles would wish for another Kaczinsky or say that "Tusk sells Poland down ther river"...maybe voting Mrs. Steinbach for german chancellor would be an equivalent? ;)

Is it not possible to appeal to the E.U. commission on trade?
(I'd look great in a pair of German boots:)


I think that is what Poland would also fear.
If Russia wanted they could cut Poland off, the pipe line going through here would deter such an action.
I think this came to the front when they did it to Ukraine mid-Winter, it got everyone nervous and I would like to see a united E.U. front.


I wouldn't believe everything you read on here. Poland has not gone in to recession and although unemployment has gone up it has not reached a critical level so people are happy enough with how it is progressing.

And it is always the politicians that get the praise for such relative success, whether or not they deserve it is another thing.... but I have to admit life is getting easier here with regards to bureaucracy, I had some unexpected changes recently that I am over the moon about.

Tusk looks good beside other E.U. leaders and seems to want partnership rather than witch hunting.

Poland will be developing its gas reserves soon. One field alone is equivalent to 1000 years gas imports.

business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article7087585.ece

It is so-called "shell gas" or "tight gas" very difficult to extract from its deposits.
We don't have the technology to get it, but the Americans do and if all goes well
(the final research drillling will be done this month) we will have enough gas for
the next 100-200 years without the necessity of importing it.

gospodarka.gazeta.pl/gospodarka/1,33181,7499977,Polska_moze_miec_zloza_gazu_ziemnego_na_100_200_lat.html

Good deal, problem solved :)

Will it be cheaper than current market prices?

What could they do if Russia cuts off Ukraine because they don't want to pair the regular price???


How so? We had some winters already were everybody from Ukraine downwards was cut off because of the disagreements!


Do do what exactly?
Pressing Ukraine to pay? Lending Ukraine the money??? Threatening Russia with war??? What???


Good to hear...:)


Cool...you will get rich quickly! ;)

I don't know, Germany and Poland have the same fear and are part of a union.
I believe Russia also needs to sell it's product and it wouldn't be profitable to cut off Poland AND Germany, know what I mean?


Because Russia would lose money if they cut off their gas to a European Union.
I am going for Russia's business perspective.


Not lending Ukraine money.
No war, please.
Business, two customers have more of a pull than individually.
If Germany and Poland were to be joined on this one it could make for better conditions, stabilizing any fears about being cut off.

Ukraine is not part of the union.

Not in the beginning, because the new technology is expensive, but in the long run
it will be profitable (and we finally won't be dependent on Russia for gas).


It's more about getting safe and independent than rich.

Sounds great!

They did it already if I remember it correctly...all because of the spat with Ukraine.


How, if they don't get paid by the Ukraine?
You see, here lays exactly the crux of the matter...even if other european countries have paid the agreed price they are not getting anything if the pipeline runs over a country who has different ideas...


Nice words...but a realistic scenario please!


Also a problem...


You will sell us some then, yes? :)

Ah, tell us more, please.


Awwe BB... Come on!

I just think this is exactly where the E.U. should show a united front to benefit us all.


When Russia did cut off Ukraine, Poland was still being supplied but you have a point.

Russia is the biggest gas source, but, they are consuming the gas mostly in Russia. They aren't even in top 10 exporters of world. It is Gazprom company that imports and exports gas of other middle asia countries. Biggest exporter of world gas is Turkmenistan (nr 3) and in top 5 in gas resources. So, world's most important country about the gas is Turkmenistan. Russia is in trouble with them as Turkmenistan still follows socialism (bravo to them) by giving free gas, free electric, free hospital care, etc to their folks. So, Turkmenistan is source and West Europe (Germany especially) is sink for the gas. Turkmenistan is a small country not to be able to protect themselves? No, besides they collobrate with China in pipeline technology, Turkmenisan's ordinary folks are enough to stop Russia. If I were an ordinary folk there who will get free gas, free electric, free hospital, etc., I'd fight to die to protect my these free basical things. Russia will have problems if Putin doesn't return to socialist policies. It will be hard to do that for Russia, but, they have no choice. Capitalist west too, with the economy crisis, have to think about new socialism. It will be hard for them too as they have fought for socialism for many years, but, no other chance.. What have all these to do with Poland? Poland must be aware of that new world is being shaped and it is not being shaped by the major powers of the world anymore. USA, Britain, EU, Russia, China, etc can not push the nuke buttons. Social life supporter countries will save themselves. Obama has seen this and started with universal health care action, however, not enough, he should do more asap. Britain and EU too should do somethings on that way, or, they will collapse economically.. Poland can be seen a small ineffective country if we consider capitalism race, but, it is a major country with their experience in socialism. Poland should be a country like Turkmenistan, with free energy, free electric, free hospitals, etc. This will highlight importance of Poland and will gain supports of ordinary folks all over EU and then the world. If Poland doesnt do this, they will be insignificant among major powers and they will be used again by some capital and religion centers as arena. It wont be good for Poland again.

cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/06/ukraine.russia.gas/index.html


Ja...but to do WHAT? All glaring in Russias or Ukraines direction? WHAT?

Not to get cut off and no price hikes.


Not quite sure what you meant there?

Edit*

Nice links BB, I will have a read.


I thought this accusation was dis-proven?

Sure, why not. Or we can just trade gas for Leopards ;)

And I have no idea how a united EU front should work on two not-EU members who disagree
about a gas supply which lets lot's of EU-countries hanging...

Other than paying the money for Ukraine I don't have any idea...

PS: The EU did that actually


euobserver.com/863/28516

The reserves would be enough to supply the EU for a little over 2 years. I think it has to do more with energy security.


Wow, that's a huge stack of sh*t there. Free energy and free electricity (for certain neighborhoods in Ashgabat), free hospitals (in the capital, they closed the ones in the country side remember?), good pensions (oh, wait, those were massively cut just recently). Yes, Poland should be like the Turkmenistan. A (reported) infant mortality rate close to 5%. A country where a handful of people control all the resources. Sounds wonderful.

Great idea! :)

Put a pipe through other E.U. Baltic states?





en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

That would mean 4 countries to worry about, instead of 2. The pipes would be completely new as well. That doesn't really help much.

And then watch Lithuania getting into spats with Russia???

All these are due to Russian mafias help to Gazprom and due to the West (playing with their own mafias) who still hate socialism. Idiots. West have to look at themselves. Their economies are sinking...

It wouldn't have to go through all four but anyway they'd be E.U. countries that are more stable than Ukraine.
Poland and Germany would have a better supply.


We would have to organise a deal, of course.

Come on people we are part of a union for a reason and energy is a good start :)

So it's not a socialist paradise?