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Kukiz and Petru - newly emerging political stage in Poland


Polonius3 994 | 12,367
27 May 2015 #1
The post-election Millard Brown survey indicates an interesting configuration on Poland's political stage. The two old workhorses -- PiS and Platformers -- are neck and neck, but Kukiz's support in the first round continues. Although he has yet to set up or name such a grouping which would be basically anti-systemic. A small new Petru-Balcer ultra-capitalist or pro-market grouping is something new. The old standbys SLD and PSL are out and have joined the ranks of such fringe groups as Palikot and Korwin.. How this all pans out will be interesting indeed. This will change many times over before autumn but just on the basis of this poll PiS and Kukiz with 45% support could create a government and PO/Petru-Balcer would be the loyal opposition with 30%.

Hopefully, the Polish-Polish war would not continue along those lines, PO will stop being an anti-PiS hate industry and PiS will abandon its Smolensk obsession. But all that remains to be seen.

PO - 25%, PiS - 25%, Paweł Kukiz - 20%, NowoczesnaPL R.Petru i L.Balcerowicza - 5%. These are the results of a survey by Millward Brown for Fakty TVN and TVN24.

On the further down positions: PSL - 4%, SLD - 3%, KORWiN - 3% and TR - 1%.

This survey was implemented on May 14 on a nationwide representative sample of landline and mobile phones among people aged over 18 years old. The sample size: N = 1001.

In the future please post the full text in English.
Levi 12 | 442
27 May 2015 #2
Poland is in the right way.
A conservative president that loves his people and act in accordance to Polish morals and values (Duda and PiS).
A opposition that is also good (PO at least is center-right and have good economical ideas).
And the left-wing socialists and communists and virtually dead (Sld and Grodzka).

There are very few countries in the world that i would bet in a brilliant future. Poland is one of them.
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
1 Jun 2015 #3
Merged: A new Poland's Liberal Party (Modern PL) bows in

Modern.PL is the name of a new political grouping led by economist Ryszard Petru with the backing of Leszek Balcerowicz. According to Petru, ". Miller, Kaczyński, Piechociński, Kopacz, Tusk don't feel like doing anything because they are well off. But I've got a vision that Poland can become the little Germany of Europe." The grouping plans to stand in autumn's general election.

"I am p*ssed off by motorway toll booths, by the senseless healthcare debate from which nothing emerges and by promoting Poland as a cheap manpower country. We are proud that we are so cheap and then people wonder why they are making only 2,000 zł a month. I am p*ssed off by the present politicly class who don't feel like doing anything. They are satisfied and reckon that all the rest will somehow roll along," Petru commented.

According to Andrzej Olechowski (one of the "three tenors" together with Tusk and Płażyński who started the PO), the Platform is declining, they may get 10-20% support. Kukiz's support is growing (already 25%). This project is an attempt to liberalise the economy. Its main support is in the business sector and certain political circles.

Liberalism lacks mass appeal and actually triggers a negative knee-jerk reaction amongst many Poles and is widely associated with scams and corruption. "Polska liberalna-aferalna" (liberal-scamist Poland) is one buzz-word reflecting those negative vibes.

What do you think? Does such a party stand a chance in Poland? How much support do you think they can count on in the election?
Levi 12 | 442
1 Jun 2015 #4
"But I've got a vision that Poland can become the little Germany of Europe."

Which means Poland dominated by political correctness dictartoship, full of kebab houses with low sanitary conditions, and with 1% economic growth?

No, thanks.

Poland is better being just Poland, with Polish traditions, and proudness. There is absolutely no reason for copy another country and be ashamed of the glorious polish values.

The rest i agree. I am in Favor of liberal economic policies as long as they are favourable to the interests of the country and stimulate enterpreneurship at the highly educated polish population.
Dougpol1 31 | 2,640
1 Jun 2015 #5
There is absolutely no reason for copy another country

There is every reason to "copy" another country. I know you wont understand this analogy because your education system doesn't encourage the student at school to learn by kinesthetic means. But.........

In the UK, if you are in an organic practical chemistry class, and are unsure what to do, and you are carrying out an experiment, but have 9 or 10 pieces of apparatus - what do you do?

You look to see what all the other students are doing, that's what, and you set up your apparatus as they are doing. It's called conforming to society. Something that Poles are generally still absolutely clueless about. It's exactly the same as in that TV quiz, where the contestant doesn't know the answer and asks the audience, and 98% of them answer "B".

You would have to be a moron to go against them.

In exactly the same way, Poland should be copying a lot of the laws and acceptable social conditions of other countries. For they make a whole lot of sense. In the meantime, we have a socially reprehensible president who promises more of the same old hate nonsense.
Artem
1 Jun 2015 #6
Sure... You see how the other students set up theis apparatus, you see how said apparatus blow up into their faces, then you procede to do the same thing... You would be a moron o go against them. Sure.

By the way, in Poland being called "comformist" is considered offensive.
Levi 12 | 442
1 Jun 2015 #7
"There is every reason to "copy" another country. I know you wont understand this analogy because your education system doesn't encourage the student at school to learn by kinesthetic means. But.........

In the UK, if you are in an organic practical "

No, there is not, especially when they are in absolutely different cultural contexts.

It is interesting that you criticized my argument while you used UK educational system as example.

Just see the latest UK scores at PISA and you will see how it is a completely big failure full of under achiever students (by far with much lower average then polish or hungarian students)

"It's exactly the same as in that TV quiz, where the contestant doesn't know the answer and asks the audience, and 98% of them answer "B".

You would have to be a moron to go against them."

Except when most of the audience are made of morons. Than you will be a moron if you go WITH them.

That is why the UK educational system is such a failure: it is leveled by the lower standard. You need to agree to be mediocre, to be ordinary,in order to be inserted in a educational system like the british. It explains a lot about their disgraceful bad grades at pisa or any other elementary school evaluation.
Dougpol1 31 | 2,640
1 Jun 2015 #8
Poland being called "comformist" is considered offensive

Right. But that connotation is consigned by academics to the waste bin of history.
British politicians always branded Poles as "belligerent." Look in the Oxford concise dictionary if you have to see which of the two terms is the more positive.
Artem
1 Jun 2015 #9
"belligerent"
Are homosexuals demanding marriage rights and attending to pride parades being belligerent or conformist?
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
1 Jun 2015 #10
Would you like your 5-year-old daugther or son to ask you: "What is that man doing?" at the sight of a passing homo parade where a scantily clad male duo is simulating sodomy (rectal peneration)?:

They can sodomise each other to their heart's content but do they have to foist those lewd and vulgar displays on the general public?

These gay-priders must have never heard of good taste, decorum and common sense! As if there was something to be proud of! It makes about as much sense as a klepto-pride parade: "We steal because we were born that way and can't help it but we're proud of it!
johnny reb 48 | 7,000
1 Jun 2015 #11
but do they have to foist those lewd and vulgar displays on the general public?
@ Polonius3

Those are the 0.05% of the 1.5% of the Homo's that do that yet the Liberals say, YOU WILL love them, YOU WILL accept them, YOU WILL tolerate them, YOU WILL go against your Christian Faith, YOU WILL.........

Just another attack in the war against Christianity.

Everybody stick to the topic!
smurf 39 | 1,971
1 Jun 2015 #12
These gay-priders

You start a topic and then try and take it off topic on your 3rd post.
Admin & Mods really need to be stronger on you.

I like the look of this new party. Economic professionals taking on responsibility for trying to improve this mess of a country.
Hopefully, one day we'll have actual doctors running the health system, lawyers running the legal system, sportsmen/women running sports and educators running the education system.

Unlike what we have now, ill-educated career politicians making a dog's dinner of a country brimming with potential.

Maybe they'll even appoint someone who could come up with ideas on how to stop Poland's gushing brain drain? Although I doubt it.

It's very difficult to be optimistic about Poland's future when you look objectively at the parties in power.
jon357 74 | 21,980
2 Jun 2015 #13
I like the look of this new party.

Sounds an excellent idea. The political environment in Poland has a lot of interest from the public (soooo much discussion about trivia and minutiae in the media without much ever really happening) and Balcerowicz and Petru are both highly respected economic heavyweights.
Harry
2 Jun 2015 #14
I like the look of this new party.

Yes, it does look good. The problem with it is that it splits the votes of those who aren't bitter, twisted, jealous and vengeful, i.e. those who don't support PIS.
gumishu 13 | 6,140
2 Jun 2015 #15
lawyers running the legal system

and we are done in
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
2 Jun 2015 #16
Merged: Kukiz takes p*ss out of pro-capitalist Petru party

Musician Paweł Kukiz took the stuffings out of a new pro-capitalist grouping led by economist Ryszard Petru. He called the Petru project a party of foriegn bankers and industrialists and another incarnation of the Democratic Union, Political scientist Prof. Chwedoruk believes the Petru-led grouping will become a lifeboat for politicians abandoning the sinking PO ship. According to him, it's the only party they could transfer to.

wpolityce.pl/polityka/254457-pawel-kukiz-kpi-z-partii-petru-i-balcerowicza-kolejne-wcielenie-unii-wolnosci
gregy741 5 | 1,232
3 Jun 2015 #17
i dunno what to make out of him...he kinda starting to annoy me..i liked him first but ,appart from those JOWY things,i dont really know what is his idea for Polands economical and social improvements.i am not even sure if those who support him ,knows anything about JOWY or care

he might dissapear like lepper or palikot,who benefited from dissatisfaction of quite large part of Poland population.and voted for them as a form of rebellion or "red card" for Poland political "establishment" but if he fail to deliver concrete ideas and proposals,people gonna move him into "crazy populist" section. for now,he just trash various politicians in very aggressive way
Dougpol1 31 | 2,640
3 Jun 2015 #18
,he just trash various politicians in very aggressive way

Good post gregy. You are talking sense here, if I may so say, and I know I too don't always do that either :) This singer bloke is simply another Tyminski, a total non-entity. Send him to Peru.
Gosc123456
3 Jun 2015 #19
100% agreed! Kukiz is nothing more than a cheap populist. He has no program at all. Voters who have voted for him simply did because he pretends to be "anti system" but of course he makes his money thanks to the system. He's among of those Polish politicians who come and go very quickly. I belive very soon, Kikuz shall disappear from the political scene as it'll become more and more obvious that he offers nothing to Poles. He's just an opportunist as he knows that most voters cannot stand PO, PiS and also the others...
Wulkan - | 3,203
3 Jun 2015 #20
He's just an opportunist as he knows that most voters cannot stand PO, PiS and also the others...

So what's the options for those who can't stand PO and PiS?
jon357 74 | 21,980
3 Jun 2015 #21
The option that half the voting public take - i.e. not voting. The danger is that due to the elderly and small town residents not taking that option, the PiSuarzy could get in by the back door as they disastrously did for a short time a few years ago.
gumishu 13 | 6,140
3 Jun 2015 #22
as they disastrously did

what disastrous actually happened back then jon - can you explain??
jon357 74 | 21,980
3 Jun 2015 #23
Do you not remember the (fortunately) short-lived PiS/LPR/Samoobrona regime? The one that was dumped from office as soon as possible with a particularly high turnout at the election because people were desperate to see the back of them.That same regime that almost turned Poland into a laughing stock. The one which emphasised traditional morality despite the prime minister abandoning his wife for a young woman half his age only for him to be replaced by the (foul-mouthed) president's identical twin. The one that kept the media busy with the constant infighting they caused. The regime that tried to ban Teletubbies and banned wine/beer from railway dining cars and station buffets. Plus numerous other weirdness.

And yes, PiS getting in again (through the back door as they did last time) is a danger because of people voting for minor parties like the Kukiz faction or even (the much better) Petru/Balcerowicz party.
gumishu 13 | 6,140
3 Jun 2015 #24
The one which emphasised traditional morality despite the prime minister abandoning his wife for a young woman half his age only for him to be replaced by the (foul-mouthed) president's identical twin.

the situation you describe has happened after Marcinkiewicz was removed from the prime minister post and when he was already a PO supporter

That same regime that almost turned Poland into a laughing stock.

and this was this serious disaster??? have foreign investments fallen because of that? I accept only hard data for the foreign investments claim - btw you are British - what does it matter to you how Poland is perceived by the outside world

The regime that tried to ban Teletubbies and banned wine/beerl from railway dining cars and station buffets

this was this serious disaster? no beer on train buffets? - I thought it must have been a serious thing

Plus numerous other weirdness.

what kind of weidness? was it really disastrous? for whom?

And yes, PiS getting in again (through the back door as they did last time) is a danger

PiS is a danger to whom???
jon357 74 | 21,980
3 Jun 2015 #25
the situation you describe has happened after Marcinkiewicz was removed from the prime minister post

Makes all the difference. Not.

this was this serious disaster? no beer on train buffets? - I thought it must have been a serious thing

Not for the first time, you're mixing the symptoms with the illness.

One thing that I did like about the old PiS regime is the way so many ordinary people mobilised against it in order to vote them into the dustbin. I can still vividly remember the cheers in the street when the result was declared and the really positive atmosphere that followed.
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
3 Jun 2015 #26
PiS is a danger to whom???

PiS is mainly a danger to corrupt officials and businessmen who wholeheartedly support the scam party PO, to shady types in the service of foreign interests, to those who wish to poison the minds of children with every manner of decadent propaganda, to enemies of traditonal family values, partiotic traditions and the nation's Catholic heritage. Also to comunist-era types who made it through the cracks of a very slipshod vetting process into positions of inlfuence in government, privazisation, academia, education, culture and the media as well as assorted deviates trying to bamboozle people into believing that therr aberrations are somehow normal. Anyone who does not fit those categories has nothing to fear.

The Fourth Republic will rise again!
Harry
3 Jun 2015 #27
Also to comunist-era types who made it through the cracks of a very slipshod vetting process into positions of inlfuence in government, privazisation, academia, education, culture and the media

Ah, yes, the PIS obsession with punishing those who collaborated with the communist regime (apart, of course, from the PIS members who collaborated with the communist regime but have since then seen the light). Interesting that you mention collaborators who worked in the media.

The Fourth Republic will rise again!

Such language would be treasonous, if it were to be spoken by a Pole.

to enemies of traditonal family values, partiotic traditions and the nation's Catholic heritage.

Hmm, do those family values include men marrying and having sex children in the way that is permitted by the Catholic church? Isn't PIS supposed to be opposed to paedophilia?
Dougpol1 31 | 2,640
3 Jun 2015 #28
PiS is mainly those who wish to poison the minds of children with every manner of decadent propaganda

Changed it for you. PIS are out of date and clueless about European society as a whole. Poland is in Europe, right? Did Poland or did she not accept the billions in grants, that state that she is now part of theEU and has to grant equal rights to all her citizens and those residing here?

I am sure you will agree Poland is in fact in Europe.
Vis a vis she has to be dragged screaming into the 21st century. But PIS would put her back in the time of Henry the Eighth.
jon357 74 | 21,980
3 Jun 2015 #29
The Fourth Republic will rise again!

Again??? It never rose anywhere in the first place. In fact the Polish voters dumped its proponents at the first opportunity - the voting public were very clear indeed they didn't want any such thing.

Hopefully, the two new political groupings (uff, we've all heard this before somewhere) will make a difference and we will hear less and less of PiS as their core support heads for the graveyard.
johnny reb 48 | 7,000
3 Jun 2015 #30
The reason the "Progressive" Brits here are against the PiS is that life is going to get a lot more difficult for them when PiS wins.

Poland is what it is and does need the E.U. influence telling their country what is best for them.
(Just look at the morality mess the rest of the E.U. is in and it is only getting worse by the day)
The Polish people knows what has worked best in the past and are going to keep it that way by voting in the PiS this fall.

The PO are nothing less then legalized crooks.

So what's the options for those who can't stand PO and PiS?

Pawel Kukiz who is very popular with the younger Poles and is coming on strong.
His platform is to rid the corruption of the PO also.
Kukiz would be no surprise to me if he pulled it out.


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