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Anti-atheisation institute in Poland emerging


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Jun 2013 #1
A Stop Atheisation Congress was held at Częstochowa's Jasna Góra monastery adn the creation of an Anti-Atheisaiton Institue was announced. Jarosław Kaczyński, who adressed the gathering, said the Church was now under greater attack than any time since the communist regime collapsed.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
17 Jun 2013 #2
Does Jaroslaw Kaczynski really not realise the harm he does to PiS by turning up at these things?

Anti-Atheisaiton Institue

Wouldn't it be better to work on the reasons why people are falling away from the Church rather than trying to fight them?

Jarosław Kaczyński, who adressed the gathering, said the Church was now under greater attack than any time since the communist regime collapsed.

For once, he speaks the truth. And it's all their own fault.
jon357 63 | 15,223
17 Jun 2013 #3
This mirrors the situation in France where a particular tendency try without success to fight the concept of

laicete

which is built into their constitution.

Does Jaroslaw Kaczynski really not realise the harm he does to PiS by turning up at these things?

He's essentially preaching to the already converted and putting off everyone else.

Wouldn't it be better to work on the reasons why people are falling away from the Church rather than trying to fight them?

Bingo. These initiatives have never worked. It's more about saying rather than doing.
whyikit 6 | 102
17 Jun 2013 #4
Interesting although quite worrying at the same time that church feels it has to do this, especially after the recent comments from the leader of the church. I wonder what the reaction if the tables were turned and they was an anti church institute..
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
17 Jun 2013 #5
I wonder what the reaction if the tables were turned and they was an anti church institute..

Good point.

Antidisestablishmentarianism :)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Jun 2013 #6
an anti church institute

There are plenty of effective anti-Catholic entities that need not call themselves institutes: Wyborcza, TVN, Palikot, SLD, arrogant academics, writers, entertainers, advertisers, etc. who think it's 'cool' to ride rough-shod over people's relgious sensibilties. And, yes, people from Poland B (as some like to call it) that have moved to the city and been brainwashed into believing they must turn their back on God and His Church to advance their careers, gain acceptance and be popular. The Used to be people joined PZPR for the same reason!

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose (The more things change the more they remain the same.)

See, even you admit that TVN and its hireligns like Olejnik are Cathophobes.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
17 Jun 2013 #7
See, even you admit that TVN and its hireligns like Olejnik are Cathophobes.

Worse than that, it's the work of Satan herself.
Unfortunately atheists don't believe in Satan either.
Ironside 49 | 10,512
17 Jun 2013 #8
Unfortunately atheists don't believe in Satan either.

Not to worry Satan believe in them.
:D
newpip - | 140
17 Jun 2013 #9
who exactly is brainwashing them? People in Poland would rather go shopping on Sundays than go to church. So basically it sounds to me like you think Polska B are too stupid to think for themselves.
jon357 63 | 15,223
17 Jun 2013 #10
So basically it sounds to me like you think Polska B are too stupid to think for themselves.

Which is very much the point of fascism. Knowing (or pretending to know) what's best for people.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Jun 2013 #11
too stupid to think for themselves

Pretty lame riposte! One can say that about anything. People who read Wybiórcza are too stupid to think for themselves and have to see hwat the official PC line and what they should think and do.
whyikit 6 | 102
17 Jun 2013 #12
One could replace read Wybiórcza with people who attend church... As they are taught what the PC line is and how to act, think and do.....
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Jun 2013 #13
Wybiórcza with people who attend church.

As I said, thatz lame riposte could apply to anything. People have diagnosed a problem -- the onslaugth of godlessness -- and the institute project has been conceived as a way of facing it head-on. The attackers, as already pointed out, have a broad academic, media and entertainment front at their disposal, plus enticing (albeit cheap, tinsly and tacky) popcommercial gimmicks to support them, so it won't be easy.
whyikit 6 | 102
17 Jun 2013 #14
Well that is one view, the issue here, in my view, is that the chuch feel they should not be open to debate and what they say should apply no questions asked. Fortunately that is not how it operates and because of free speach and free press (although I am never sure how free it is) we can discuss things including the church. Until the church understands this and is willing to to move forward to a more modern way then I can see this going the same way it has in other countries.

As things stand the some people do not believe that the church should or can be debated. As I said previously I thought the church was starting to move in the right direction and modernise however I feel this is a massive step backwards again.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Jun 2013 #15
Everything can be discussed in a calm, non-combative manner. But haven't you noticed thta the very people who favour overturningn and exposing taboos readily create new ones? Even on PF certain certain ethnic or sexual minorities cannot be openly discussed, since immediately muzzling labels are hurled about at anyone who dares raise such a disucssion. So, yes, there are new sacred cows!
newpip - | 140
17 Jun 2013 #16
So basically it sounds to me like you think Polska B are too stupid to think for themselves.

go back and read what I wrote.

It seems to me that YOU think Polska B are two stupid to think for themselves.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
17 Jun 2013 #17
There are plenty of effective anti-Catholic entities that need not call themselves institutes: Wyborcza, TVN, Palikot, SLD, arrogant academics, writers, entertainers, advertisers, etc. who think it's 'cool' to ride rough-shod over people's relgious sensibilties.

Not one of those groups can be called anti-Catholic. As for religious sensitivities - let me remind you that much of the hatred towards those groups is not about religion, but rather that they aren't favoured by the Dear Leader.

And, yes, people from Poland B (as some like to call it) that have moved to the city and been brainwashed into believing they must turn their back on God and His Church to advance their careers, gain acceptance and be popular.

No-one is asking anyone to turn their back. But in a modern society, placing the Church on a pedestal and above question doesn't work.

Perhaps you should listen to Pope Francis more often.
Lenka 3 | 2,100
17 Jun 2013 #18
A Stop Atheisation Congress was held at Częstochowa's Jasna Góra monastery adn the creation of an Anti-Atheisaiton Institue was announced. Jarosław Kaczyński, who adressed the gathering, said the Church was now under greater attack than any time since the communist regime collapsed.

Good luck. Won't work though. Ppl can't be forced into believing. And I think ppl are more anti-clerical than atheist most of the time. I hear more ppl saying "I believe in God but I don't want to have anything to do with church and the clergy.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Jun 2013 #19
Not one of those groups can be called anti-Catholic

Au contraire, whenever any news item emerges that can be used to bash Catholicism over the head, believe me the above-listed will trip over themselves rushing to do just that.

You probably aren't aware of the fact that many Catholics in Poland feel discriminated against in their own country.
Ironside 49 | 10,512
17 Jun 2013 #20
Good luck. Won't work though. Ppl can't be forced into believing.

So what the harm then?
Lenka 3 | 2,100
17 Jun 2013 #21
You probably aren't aware of the fact that many Catholics in Poland feel discriminated against in their own country.

They feel discriminated? Interesting since I am the one, as an atheist, that have to stand the look of suprise when I say Dzień Dobry to a priest instead of Szczęść Boże, explain that I do not have to go to church in order to be quite a decent person and so on. Believe me, saying I'm Catholic is still much easier.

Edit:

So what the harm then?

No harm. Let them organise their comette. As long as it doesn't affect my life (and I assume it won't) let them have million such organisations- keep them busy if that's what they want. But it's true what someone mentioned- if it was named Anti- Catholic we would have a whole war broken loose.
Polson 5 | 1,771
17 Jun 2013 #22
So what the harm then?

People trying to force you? ;)
Anyway, there is no 'atheisation'. There's freedom to believe or not.
Ironside 49 | 10,512
17 Jun 2013 #23
I say Dzień Dobry to a priest instead of Szczęść Boże,

That must be because you are living in the village. Still what the harm?

No harm. Let them organise their comette. As long as it doesn't affect my life (and I assume it won't) let them have million such organisations- keep them busy if that's what they want

So we are in accord then:)
See Poles can agree on something - only soviets and foreigners are meddling.

People trying to force you? ;)

Force how? There is much ado about nothing. You cannot force people to believe into something - right? So what the harm in having such organization pro-believing in God. Surely nowadays you can have any number of organization to lobby for their point of view.

What the harm?
You have lesbians and activist pretending to fight for women rights and none cry foul.

Anyway, there is no 'atheisation'. There's freedom to believe or not.

If you believe in that...
Lenka 3 | 2,100
17 Jun 2013 #24
That must be because you are living in the village. Still what the harm?

I live in a town, not village. And it doesn't affect me really but it's not pleasant either- the ball is still on Catholics half although it's changing. They are certainly not disciminated.

So we are in accord then:)See Poles can agree on something - only soviets and foreigners are meddling.

I agree as long as they doesn't change it into politics- if they will try to force anything on me I will however change my statement.

Force how? There is much ado about nothing. You cannot force people to believe into something - right? So what the harm in having such organization pro-believing in God. Surely nowadays you can have any number of organization to lobby for their point of view.

That is the most important question- how they are planning to act- what this organisation will be about.
Polson 5 | 1,771
17 Jun 2013 #25
So what the harm in having such organization pro-believing in God

Pro-believing? It's not what it seems. It's anti-atheisation.
And I'm not worrying about pro-believing in God organisations in Poland, there are still many.

If you believe in that...

Yes, I do believe in that. I do believe that religion is a personal matter, and there should not a be an official state religion. I like the idea of people 'governing' us being 'neutral' and able to listen to every kind of problem, with an objective ear, not just through the prism of a holy book. Which doesn't mean that these people (presidents, ministers, deputees) cannot believe in God, of course.
Ironside 49 | 10,512
17 Jun 2013 #26
I live in a town, not village. And it doesn't affect me really but it's not pleasant either- the ball is still on Catholics half although it's changing. They are certainly not disciminated.

See I original call from Warsaw. Most people were greeting a priest by Dzen Dobry, I think it has changed recently but I'm not sure, probably people who are into the Church changed it. On the other hand before priests were respected by almost everybody except for commies and SB.

That changed as well. One day I chased two or three teenage dirt-bags taunting a priest with some shyty name calling.
For me Sczesc Boze was a greeting used in a village we used to frequent and it was a general greeting not addressed particularly to a priest.

They are certainly not disciminated.

I beg to differ in the public discourse the ball is not played levelly.

if they will try to force anything on me

Force - how? They can try to convince you but nobody can force you to anything.Sorry but it sounds funny to me. Only your parents can try to force on you something. Catholics are all for free will and free choice but there must be free choice possible.

That is the most important question- how they are planning to act- what this organisation will be about.

The same way anti-Catholicism and anti-religion groups are working. Being present with their message in the media.
Lenka 3 | 2,100
17 Jun 2013 #27
I never saw a priest being laughed at or ridiculed openly. I say Dzień Dobry because I'm an atheist and priest is just a normal guy to me. I don't respect or disrespect him becauseof the fact he is a priest- who he is is what I judge.

When I quit my religion classes and I met the priest that taught us I said Dzień Dobry everytime. He never responded :) I had a good laugh at it- showed class. Most of the other priests however respond to secular greeting even if they are suprised.

Yes, "Szczęść Boże" and "Z Bogiem" are still used by older generation.

I beg to differ in the public discourse the ball is not played levelly.

I wouldn't agree. The ammount of religious events aired by TV, every national holiday acompanied by the mass- there are still plenty.

If they don't mess with politics- let them be- I don't care.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
17 Jun 2013 #28
For me Sczesc Boze was a greeting used in a village

The favourite expression by Polska B calling to radio maybach

So what the harm in having such organization pro-believing in God

For this we already have radio maybach
Ironside 49 | 10,512
17 Jun 2013 #29
It's not what it seems. It's anti-atheisation.

whatever - so somebody will say something to cross atheisation brigade - big deal. Democracy is all about public debate.
Seems to me that some people here while laughing at conspiracy theories hold their own dark suspicions bordering on paranoia.

I do believe that religion is a personal matter, and there should not a be an official state religion

I used to think like you but i changed my mind due to activity of some cultural Marxist bend on destroying Christianity based societies and to build new secular totalitarianism.

However neutral state can be achieved with the laws based on Christan morality. No need there to attack base of morality and an attempt to decide what is moral and what is not.

That has nothing to do with a neutral state but with fighting secularism.
Polson 5 | 1,771
17 Jun 2013 #30
Seems to me that some people here while laughing at conspiracy theories hold their own dark suspicions bordering on paranoia.

Am I paranoid? Just wondering about the utility of such an 'organisation', if that's what it's called. Maybe just a strategy for Kaczyński to gain voters. Quite certain actually. Fair I guess.

owever neutral state can be achieved with the laws based on Christan morality.

The problem is 'morality', meaning and/or perception, can vary from one person to another. And you probably won't agree with me, but I find Christianity often 'late' on today's problems.

For instance, how can you sincerely advise people to not use condoms/pills? Maybe it sounds better to stay 'pure' until marriage, because sex is dirty (Christian mentality), but in real life, things are different. People used to marry at 15 or even younger. Today, it's more 30, sometimes later. That's how things are.

I just think that Christianity, especially Catholicism (and its morality), has a hard time adapting to today's world.

No need there to attack base of morality and an attempt to decide what is moral and what is not.

Humans will always question things. It's in our nature. We can't base everything (or almost) on a book and traditions that are thousands of years old.

That has nothing to do with a neutral state but with fighting secularism.

What is wrong to you about secularism?


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