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Poland in the European Union. Polexit?


Ironside 47 | 9,017    
14 Sep 2018  #331
Dudes what are on about? The EU spend huge money in bribe people and politicians and on Brussel EU beorucracy. Where do you think those money came from?

Secondly there are not clear rules for everyone in the EU. There is a lot of lobbing, cheating and going around it with the Brussels blessing rather than a healthy competition. One country can legally put some money into their 'industry' other cannot. One country can cut down all the trees it likes, other cannot. Once country can change organization of their internal institution, other cannot, one country can protect their internal market from a competitive product of the other EU country, and other cannot.

Now, supposed to be a common market with a clear rules for outsiders hence this shape of a banana to favor one producer over the other. Fine, but where was the when Russia banned Polish food from entering their market? Eh? Like right now there is a lot coal being imported from either Russia or Ukraine. My understanding is that Poland cannot rise tariff on it due to EU regulation.

So what good is EU for? They promote 'liberal' values like 'gays rights' and parades and that progressive cultural pet project that supposed not to be part of the EU policy. The EU supposed to be about economic and pollical cooperation that supposed to elevate economic differences between countries and region. Prostitution and dick swinging perverts on the street is hardly a progress. Anywho no ones need EU to have it.

In the EU so called new countries are treated like a colony. They suppose to take anything old good wise countries France and Germany decided is good for them. At the same time being a huge market for their products and a place they can find cheap ores, cheap raw products, and cheap workers.

Mind me is not exactly like it. However that is what those wise old colonial powers would like. Look at the transport they were wining competition to local companies (truck companies) and France stared to worry about considerable low pay of the drivers. WTF?

PiS gov done nothing to stop it. After all in Poland there are low salaries due to the stupid state taxing work with ZUS.

Aha, Germany and EU powers are so after PiS because they said NO to their plan to get rid off illegal Africans transporting them to other countries - which was and is the most idiotic plan. It just tell you those people are just morons that are leaving in an ivory tower, detached from the reality like Atch.

They should done away with that Franco-German bureaucracy and put some clear rulers for everyone to follow and let competition and market regulate EU economy.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,530    
14 Sep 2018  #332
They should done away with that Franco-German bureaucracy and put some clear rulers for everyone to follow and let competition and market regulate EU economy.

Who is they?

Poland is invited to shape the EU as every other member state ist. But of course, for that they would need to work hard diplomatically to gain support though, meaning becoming a valued and trusted member of the many commissions.

Pouting in a self made corner, threatening the unity, stomping their feet and playing the opressed victim of mean Brussels is not helping with any that. PiS only ensures that Polands voice in Brussels remains small and often enough unheard, if not ridiculed or plain ignored....

...which in turn serves of course PiS narrative of Poland the victim, oppressed by the meanies in the EU....it's a vicious circle, but information is a way out!
Ziemowit 10 | 2,956    
14 Sep 2018  #333
In the EU so called new countries are treated like a colony.

Your angry manifesto against the EU very much resembles the Bolsheviks' manifesto against the capitalist system.

This manifesto is the repetition of all the stereotypes diffused by the nationalistic right-wing extremists in Poland just as the Bolsheviks' manifesto did express the obsessions of the left-wing extremists in Russia.

Germany's Holy Roman Empire. (third try)

And your newest obsession with the Holy Roman Empire comes from which source, JR?
Ironside 47 | 9,017    
14 Sep 2018  #334
Your angry manifesto against the EU very much resembles the Bolsheviks' manifesto against the capitalist system.

I'm not responsible for your f up mind. A fact that you're an ignorant little perineum with a narrow mind set that are trigger by some phrases or words means that your opinion has a very little value.

Who is they?

They are French and German establishment. They're OK with the way the EU is being run because they can manipulate it to fit their agendas and interests and F all the rest.

your take is very naïve for a dude from DDR. As if you were taking seriously all those slogans and propaganda rather than scrutiny it and look at the way the EU really works.

Pouting in a self made corner, threatening the unity,

Yes, that is all propaganda straight from the commie book. Did they not call it that anyone who question Party rule in DDR? YOU can see the EU doing much of the same.

How can Poland put any proposal on the table if the EU Commission illegally are making propaganda war on Poland? There is this Belgian dude with a face of a pedophile who is a radical commie, There is that alcoholic who facilitated money laundering bussing in his little village called Luxemburg, and we have some Dutch ambitious nonentity, who couldn't make it in his own country as politician so they promoted him to the EU

Those people are not elected. They have no legal ground to do what they are doing. Why they are allowed to function at all. Simples, Because establishment of German and France support them. So end of story.

A pollical unity cannot be build on some airy slogans. Only on a solid ground.

You don't get it. PiS is a centrist left leaning party. They are softer than Orban's party in Hungary. IF the EU and establishment would just stop that relentlessly harping on non issues or issue that are supported by the majority of the Polish populace they would get it stupid war out of the way. Yet, EU morons and establishment of Germany and France is so high on a power trip they think that this all or nothing approach will actually let them having their way.

All they are doing is pushing Polish people away from the EU. Already majority of young people are anti-EU. Something that was unthinkable a few years back.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,530    
14 Sep 2018  #335
your take is very naïve for a dude from DDR. As if you were taking seriously all those slogans and propaganda rather than scrutiny it and look at the way the EU really works.

Naive?

Iron, I can compare!!!

I live in a rich country, I live a good life, and even if it wouldn't be that good anymore in the future because of a crisis or whatever I would still live better than the majority of this whole god forsaken planet.

I can be active politically without fearing a knocking in the night. I can live my individualist dreams, do what I want. I was never as free and well off as now!!!

Do you honestly think I would risk all this with sawing on the foundations of my good life?? To go back to what???

I remember and compare to the DDR...the difference to now is that everywhere else it's worse!
Ironside 47 | 9,017    
14 Sep 2018  #336
I live in a rich country, I live a good life

Yes, you do. So you have no incentive to question stories media fed you as long as you can hold onto your bliss. That is your comfort zone and its very human. Sorry you must be cynical than.You would like to think about yourself as an idealist but your are not.

From your perspective Poland and such like Hungary are a disturbance. You must blame them or you would have to question your little blissful quite life you value so much. As I said very human emotions.
Tacitus 1 | 543    
14 Sep 2018  #337
Poland or Hungary are not a disturbance. In fact it would be easier to ignorethem. The way Orban is ruining his country has the for Germany beneficial sideeffect of increasing the migration of skilled Hungarians to Germany.

However the EU takes the responsibility for the long-term well-being of the people. Ot is reassuring to know that there is a last line of defence against the destruction of democracy in Bruessels.

Just because you repeat lies do not make them true. People like Juncker are in no way "unelected". You are just repeating lies made up by people of the ill of Boris Johnson.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,530    
14 Sep 2018  #338
You would like to think about yourself as an idealist but your are not.

Idealism? What for?

Leftist idealism? That we all are equal and dance together Kumbaya around a tree in some rosy future? You know as well as I do that this ideal can only ever end in a nightmare.

Authoritarian idealism? That somehow a strong leader will save us from all the headache and solve all our problems? Been there, done that..not thanks!

What idealism do you mean?

The only idealism I can accept in my position is actually the green variant! I can't stand the green party in Germany, because they are much to leftist for my taste, but to invest in and build a green tech industry to free ourselves and the planet from the yoke of the raw materials is a thing I very much support and are very much idealistic for.

So, what idealism do you think I'm lacking?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,530    
14 Sep 2018  #339
From your perspective Poland and such like Hungary are a disturbance.

Now that's just not true.

Before PiS Poland was well on it's way to a leading member of the EU, there was talk of a new axis...not only Berlin and Paris, But Paris-Berlin-Warsaw. Poland was the up and coming rising tiger.

Thank PiS for isolating Poland, putting it on the fringe of the EU map again! But hey, for you all these polish politicians involved in Brussels had been traitors from the start anyhow, right? All slimers, brown nosers, commies even..

But it's like in real life, also in the EU you get only back that what you put in first...many countries are more involved in all things EU today than Poland...and their voice is in consequence bigger. Even countries much smaller than Poland...
Ironside 47 | 9,017    
14 Sep 2018  #340
So, what idealism do you think I'm lacking?

I don't think you're lacking anything. I'm not judging you. I just say that you gave an impression that you would like to be some kind of idealist. No matter, I said you're an idealist that all.

for the long-term well-being of the people. Ot is reassuring to know that there is a last line of defence against the destruction of democracy in Bruessels.

Blah blah you just spewing a lot of that leftist nonsense. It doesn't even make sense those are just cheap slogans.
I didn't see Brussels react while PO and Tusk was in charge in Poland and they were using the secret police to spy on the opposition or they were using policemen in plain clothes to incite violence and then used it as an excuse to attack with rubber bullets, gas and anti-riot police a legal demonstrcions. Not to mention corruption that went against the long term wellbeing of the people. Where was your Brussel then eh>?

By the way PiS was elected by the people! What are you some kind of overlord that gonna tell them is not a democracy because they voted the wrong people in power.?

It sound a lot like a dictatorship this 'democracy' of yours.
Atch 15 | 2,438    
14 Sep 2018  #341
By the way PiS was elected by the people!

Elected by about 18% of the Polish electorate. I suppose people get the governments they deserve. If you can't be bothered to vote, which half of eligible Poles didn't, then it's possible for a party with far from overwhelming support to end up in power, which is what happened with PIS.
Ironside 47 | 9,017    
14 Sep 2018  #342
I said you're an idealist* that all.

*you are not

Before PiS Poland was well on it's way to a leading member of the EU, there was talk of a new axis.

Yes, there was talk. That all was BS. Just empty slogans.

Elected by about 18%

another 'democrat' I see, you're elitist like hell, why don't cut the crap and tell people they should vote the way you tell them or you gonna toss your toys out of the pram?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,530    
14 Sep 2018  #343
Yes, there was talk. That all was BS. Just empty slogans.

Without PiS Poland could be a huge number today in Brussels...no empty slogan!
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,530    
14 Sep 2018  #344
By the way PiS was elected by the people!

Yeah...I agree with that. That is very unlucky communicated. I remember as Austria elected once a far-right Jörg Haider. It was even tried to punish Austria for that election.

It was dumb back then and it is dumb now.

Since then Brussels has gained more experience now and/or has learned to sit out some problems and/or has just resigned. As long there is democracy politicians and govs change all the time.

PiS in a government ist not the problem!

But Poland as a country has subscribed to some plain written rules as it became a member of the EU. Without subscribing to them it would not had become a member in the first place, inclusive enjoying all the support and the advantages.

If there is a case that some of these rules are broken will now be reviewed. If that's the case there will be repercussions.

If they think they did nothing wrong they should be on the safe side, right?
Ironside 47 | 9,017    
14 Sep 2018  #345
Without PiS

ARE we playing a fantasy game? PiS won a democratic election in Poland. PiS agenda EU has a problem with is in 90% supported not only by their constituency but by the Polish populace at large.

What does the EU and German establishment? Ignore facts, ignore reality and start this stupid war with the reality on the ground. What does it say about that establishment? they are detached from reality - they are crap and they won't solve anything until their are put against the wall.

So all this kumbaya stuff is just a wishful thinking.
Ziemowit 10 | 2,956    
14 Sep 2018  #346
your f up mind. A fact that you're an ignorant little perineum with a narrow mind set

Why do you resort to personal abuse when answering my post? In my post I was judging nothing more than your post by calling it an "angry manifesto" and comparing it to a manifesto of the far-left extremists of Russia. There was absolutely nothing personal against you in my post.

In return, you have been addressing me personally as someone who has a "f up mind" and also calling me "an ignorant little perineum". These are nasty insults which have nothing to do with arguments of any kind.

No wonder you are on Rich Mazur's black list, Ironside. Mods, could you please judge if Ironside's behaviour towards myself is in accordance with the supposedly high standards of the PolishForums, and in case you decide it is not, could you please effectuate a suspension of adequate length for his inappropriate behaviour?
Dougpol1 24 | 1,891    
14 Sep 2018  #347
I didn't see Brussels react while PO and Tusk was in charge in Poland

PO and the EU were building infrastructure and bringing corporations to Poland Ironside. You weren't here to see it. Silesia was a ******* wasteland beforehand and a great deal of it still is - but that's because the locals think it's one big Skansen :( :( Instead of the truth - which is that it is a post industrial shithole. You need strong government to disabuse them.

Now. with PIS, all that work has stopped. Beacause they are too busy propogating the good old Silesian underclass with their pathetic social bribery - those with their large families, where dad the patriach will oft beat his children if he catches them studying their schoolbooks under the bedcovers.

You know feck all.
Sorry for the bad language folks but Poles like Ironside make me sick to the stomach.
johnny reb 15 | 3,052    
14 Sep 2018  #348
And your newest obsession with the Holy Roman Empire comes from which source, JR?

America spent a fortune rebuilding Germany and keeping peace in Europe.
Germany would be nowhere close to where it is today without America's help.
Now they turn around and pay billions upon billions of dollars to Russia for their gas.
Many of the elites in Germany have come to the conclusion that Germany has got all they can from America and it is time to move on.

Some of the elite Germans are thinking more and more about the Holy Roman Empire so they can take power to make the E.U. as a German led superpower.

Europe has witnessed a repeat of empires with all having the same views and all led by a church.
Hitler led the sixth.
My prediction is that the next (7th) will come out of the E.U.

Sorry for the bad language folks but Poles like Ironside make me sick to the stomach.

Doug would you like me to go to my archives and post a couple of your late night 'bad language' posts when you were three sheets to the wind ?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,530    
14 Sep 2018  #349
Now they turn around and pay billions upon billions of dollars to Russia for their gas.

Not now...it started in 1973.

swp-berlin.org/fileadmin/contents/products/research_papers/2017RP13_wep_EtAl.pdf

Some of the elite Germans are thinking more and more about the Holy Roman Empire

Who does it?

My prediction is that the next (7th) will come out of the E.U.

An Empire is historically a monarchy or an authocracy...never a democracy.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,382    
14 Sep 2018  #350
America spent a fortune rebuilding Germany and keeping peace in Europe.

That makes "America" dumber than a rock. A smart "America" would be rolling in more cash from that than it would know what to do with it.

Love and stupidity - which is almost the same thing - are very expensive, indeed. So, "America" - dumb, Germany - smart.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,530    
14 Sep 2018  #351
Actually something like the HRE isn't that bad a goal...It was multi-ethnical and totally decentralized. About 500 independent statelets...flourishing, free (as these times permitted).

.......evolving instead into a decentralized, limited elective monarchy composed of hundreds of sub-units: kingdoms, principalities, duchies, counties, prince-bishoprics, Free Imperial Cities, and other domains.[6][15] The power of the emperor was limited....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire

Alot of Germany's finest traits were developed back then...

If the EU would evolve into an Europe of Regions I wouldn't be averse to that.

It's the centralistic view of the Frenchies with one powerful seat to rule them all which I don't like...
Tacitus 1 | 543    
14 Sep 2018  #352
The HRE hardly deserves its' bad reputation anyway. It's last century was indeed not very impressive, but judging it on that account would be like judging the Roman Empire by its' last 100 years. This doesn't reflect e.g. how it gave its' people many rights and freedoms for its# time.
johnny reb 15 | 3,052    
14 Sep 2018  #353
And your newest obsession with the Holy Roman Empire comes from which source, JR?

I don't want to get accused of a copy and paste so you will have to google - The Holy Roman Empire
Very enlightening history tied into this thread.
G (undercover)    
14 Sep 2018  #354
No, Poland shouldn't. Unless you think that Poles should do without work

Now we have +2 million foreign workers and one of the lowest unemployment rates in the EU. So, english idiot, please kindly explain how Poland would end up "without work" without EU.

The Polish zloty would de-value drastically if Poland left the EU, it would be virtually worthless, for a time at least.

Here are the historical EUR/PLN rates. In 1999 (when EUR was created) the annual avg was 4,23. In 2017 it was 4,26.

Now, simplistic irish imbecile, please kindly explaine how it would rise to +8,5 without EU.

Poland was the up and coming rising tiger.

LOL ! Yeah, If PiS gov spent billions on TGV, Airbus planes etc. instead of distributing it to people, I'm fairly sure your "independent media" would be calling Poland "a rising tiger" now :)))
TheOther 5 | 3,381    
14 Sep 2018  #355
explain how Poland would end up "without work" without EU.

Poland leaves EU. Poland loses access to the common market. Poland becomes a lot less interesting for foreign investors. Foreign investors/ companies leave Poland. Poland's unemployment increases.
Dougpol1 24 | 1,891    
14 Sep 2018  #356
Poland

Don't engage with the chav. If he can't be polite then why encourage him?
TheWizard - | 207    
14 Sep 2018  #357
Low inflation, good exports and plenty of investment opportunities. Polands economy for ages now. A shining example. Helped a lot by the eu, 100% sure. Soon Poland will be rich enough to be a net contributor.

Pis hasn't effected the key economic indicators for Poland, they have improved. Whether something is built or not in silesia is irrelevant, great argument to make to kids though. Poland is a big place it's getting build elsewhere. Buildings take years to build, key economic indicators function monthly or even daily so it's poinless looking at it like that. Great place to invest in and with overwhelming support for the EU from the population more is to come. Pis will be thrown in the bin if they overstep the mark. People dont want to live in the middle east otherwise they would go there, therefore pis is in charge but if they stuff it up economically they will be out in a short time.
Ironside 47 | 9,017    
14 Sep 2018  #358
Why do you resort to personal abuse when answering my post?

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to insult you on a personal level. I should have say that your post is of little value and I'm not responsible for the way your mind work i.e. not very efficiently.

PO and the EU were building infrastructure and bringing corporations to Poland Ironside.

Did they? You mean highways where companies that actually build them had gone bankrupt ( people lost their heath some lives)because PO's cronies who out of the blue got a contract to built it didn't pay them? The same infrastructure that is the most expensive infrastructure in the world cause PO cronies had to make money on it? The very some that took three times that long as it should be?

Let assume you are right for the sake of argument. Assume they did what you say they did.
Is that an excuse for using the power of the state to harass and spy on the political opposition and to lie about and attack with gas and rubber bullets a legal demonstration? Not to forget keeping people in jail for many months without a trial or charges?

As for the rest of your rant. You know nothing Dough because you don't understand Poland. You have been living in the country so many years and nothing. You compare everything with a good old blighty as it was when you left it. Your drinking problem hasn't make it easier for you. You just don't get the place and you are a commie/sorry Corbyn's buddy, hence your bizarre views....

Sad part is IF you go back there for your retirement you'll be sorely disappointed. 30 years ?Dough its a lot.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,399    
15 Sep 2018  #359
PO and the EU were building infrastructure and bringing corporations to Poland

Are you kidding me? Most of the large companies came in the 90's and early 2000's. Germans were the first to rush in. Even US companies like KFC for example came in 93.

EU funds are but a fraction of the overall GDP something like 2%. Poland put them to good use - they were an investment. Unlike the Greeks we didn't waste them on building stadiums that got used once and have been rotting ever since. Even German investors admit that the EU got waaaay more out of Poland thanks to cheap labor and a big fairly wealthy market of 40 million people to sell sh1t too than Poland got out of EU.

And article 7 against Poland and Hungary is doomed - for one they'll support each other as will other countries like Czechy. Plus a lot of the socialists and liberals in EP will be replaced by nationalists in the coming election - just like numerous countries in Europe that are moving more and more to the right. Then, the EP will be applauding us for the way we handled the migrant crisis and a pushy EU that seeks to stick its nose in our domestic political affairs and punish the country because of how they voted.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,399    
15 Sep 2018  #360
Oh and the irony of being told that Poland and Hungary have problems with 'democracy' by a person who was not democratically elected is just too much...




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