Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?

Man, if you are for real... Come on, I know there is no eden here, but still...
If you have money to survive 3 years, you have enough to start your own business. Or, if it is not your thing, I can understand that, try to buy into existing business, as co-owner you will not be disrespected, just try not to rub their faces into your superiority.

Or try to lern something new. You say, you have the experiance in IT? So try to lern E# programing, and maybe SQL. Hell, even investing into Lotto tickets would be better then just waiting till your money runs out.

Don't flame me, I like Gothic too.

you? explain? ROFL, LOL, ober LOL
peterle, not only regarding economy topics you are from many people regarded as clown/troll. intelligence is not your thing. ask your wife next time for help when she goes to the market to learn the basic calculations. :)


good attitude ;)

unless you expand on that i really dont have clue what youre waffling on about.

There is more to an economy than infrastructure grants.

that nails it. very probably he doesnt know either

Greek parties agree on caretaker govt.

Spain debt risk premium hits record high

Germany clears Frankfurt Occupy camp

latest headlines but peterchen wants to sell us that pl booms. ahahahaha

The money was not all allocated for roads, but lets just assume that it was for a moment which reminds of a post YOU made yesterday. From


Humm, if thats your logic relating to Poles buying inner city property do you think infrastructure investment may have lured big business to? thus helping to improve the economy and of course keep Poland on the road of economic growth.

is polands economy still booming, mr economy aka peterle?

Unemployment hits 16-year high in UK
The number of people out of work in Britain for more than 12 months has risen to the highest level in 16 years, official figures showed.

presstv.ir/detail/2012/05/16/241562/unemployment-hits-16year-high-in-uk/

As a Brit living in Poland it's easy to see how Polish people are fooled into thinking that their Economy is an EU success story.

The rise in GDP being the biggest example of this. The problem with this is that Polands GDP is still woefully low compared to Western Europe which they are compared against. If i have 1 grosz and get 3 grosz i have a 300% rise!!! great!! If i have 1 zloty and have lost 2 grosz it's a 2% drop..bad you might say. I'd rather have 98gr then 3gr!!

Poland in the next three years will have to overcome huge problems that will inveriably decimate the so called polish 'tiger' economy'

- Rising unemployment in the west will contribute to rising unemployment in Poland (as the Polish government wont be able to farm off the unemployed to the UK, Spain and Ireland)

- Other poorer countries entering the EU will take cash away from the free EU handouts that the Polish economy is built upon.
- Rising costs to foreign companies in Poland (wages etc) will make Poland an unattractive place to do business (Poland is already woefully low on the 'place to do business' scale already!) In fact British companies are already bringing back work from both Poland and China.

- New members being added to the EU will result in lower end goods being made cheaper elsewhere within the EU.
- Problems within the EU will have a knock-on effect to Poland...Poland is like a docile lap-dog to the german ran EU. Once the Germans have had their use of Poland they will do what they are doing to the Greeks. (The EU is created to create a market place for German goods and new Polish infrastructure is only being built to enable quicker movement of German goods to new markets - Poland is a bridge to the East)

Poland had to ask its Politicians how it is still lingering behind the Czechs and the Estonians and how it can save itself from the above.

It's amazing how one person can be so wrong on so many issues in one thread. Economically illiterate doesn't even begin to cover it.

Yes, thats right. Investment (by the Polish government as well, EU funds less than half) helps the economy grow. But thats my point, it helps. You can build roads and railways but without the fundamental desire and ability to take advantage of it its pointless. Poland has cheap labour, a very large amount of agricultural land a useful geographical location next to Germany and even some natural resources. Its people are proactive and positive toward capitalism, employers look at Poland and get the impression that the people want employers and investment. E.g. Shale gas .. come to Poland we want the money, screw everything else.

All these things together are attracting business.


Best to take advantage of other peoples ignorance and move on. In ten years time they will go, duh, how did I miss that???

hague1cmaeronThreads: 20

gdyniaguy: As a Brit living in Poland it's easy to see how Polish people are fooled into thinking that their Economy is an EU success story.

It's amazing how one person can be so wrong on so many issues in one thread. Economically illiterate doesn't even begin to cover it.

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'Economically illiterate doesn't even begin to cover it?'............... I have added a few points that you are free to argue against......otherwise as the Irish would say Feck Off!

1) Polish GDP? looking at small figures doesnt really equate major success...in fact estonia, czech, slovakia and slovenia have better gdps...only albania, hungary, latvia and lithuania have worse..

2) Rising unemployment in the UK, Spain, France etc wont lead to rising unemployment in poland? Add to this the simple fact that less Poles are employed in Poland then 10 years ago (maybe the drop in birthrate may slow the unemployment rate down a little.

3) There have been numerous reports on companies relocating to the UK due to rising costs. Not only wages but fuel prices and the need for lower lead times.

4) So German companies wont switch production from Poland to Turkey/Macedonia etc if and when they eventually join the EU?

By all means


You obviously never heard of the concept of diminishing returns.

a rise in GDP to a country like Poland means more than it does to other more advanced economies.


Sadly for you bad wishes don't always translate into reality.


Completely wrong, it is in fact one of the most attractive places to do business in.

" United Nations Information Centre with cooperation with PAIiIZ presented the "World Investment Report 2005: Transnational Corporations and the Internationalization of R&D." Poland is the eight most attractive location for business in the world, according to the report." That was in 2005-before the GFC, since then Poland has become even more attractive.

more: " Warsaw ranks number 12 among top business locations across the world, according to a study by real estate services company CB Richard Ellis (CBRE). More than 150 multinational corporations have their offices in the Polish capital city."

British companies bringing work back work from Poland and china, you are having a lough: "Controversial Cadbury closure moves chocolate productions to Poland" news.bbc.

The Czechs didn't exactly suffer annihilation in the Second War, and as things currently stand Poland is in a much better place economically than Estonia. You should use a bit more objectivity and less prejudice, when sharing your "pearls of wisdom". Or to borrow an Aussie classic, stop talking though your ass.


Not only. You forgot Romania and Bulgaria. And that will rapidly change in the next 10 years.

exactly,,fooled into thinking.
Simple fact like this below
Lublin

Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 307.57 €

Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 511.96 €

Krakow
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 619.00 €
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 369.84 €

Birmingham
Rent Per Month [Edit] Avg.
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 687.63 €
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 1,739.81 €

Belfast
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 457.29 €
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 1,875.38 €

Just proves why Poland has mass emigration and why it has a quickly shrinking population
and things are not getting better

Hague cameron....

Indeed..... as you live in Austrailia (a very long way away!!) and I live in POLAND and have done for 3 years. I also employ POLISH people in POLAND and now all about the lies that the POLISH government spew out daily. Honestly look at Polands rise in GDP over the last 10 years and the decrease in Employment, Tell the man on the street in a towns in the mining heartlands of Poland that the economy of Poland is doing great and he'll tell you to do one. If you've ever watched Polish news you'll see that in the old Communist tradition 99.9% of it is good news and the other 0.1% is a continuation of the stroy of the aircrash that killed the last president. Telling me that a 2% rise in GDP in Poland means more then a 2% rise in the UK is just bullshit and has got nothing to do with diminishing return. (doh!!!)

How much indeed do you know about the Poles who are working for 1,500zl a month and living 3-4 familes to a house....nothing!!!!! China, Poland, Brasil are all doing 'well' beacause as i said before 1 to 3gr is 300% rise.... a big rise from nothing to nothing... If indeed you are an economist you know that GDP includes wages and as soon as wage levels are high enough then the Polish Economy will hit the brakes big time (people are here for cheap labour).

I saw a program on the BBC recently about a cushion factory boss who moved production to China because wages were cheap (20p per hour)...in the last 3 years those wages have increased to 1gbp per hour and transportation costs have risen. Added on top of that for him was the work rate (believe me polish in general are the same...slow and they have a education system that gives so of the lowest pass marks in Europe...everybodys got a degree but poland doesnt have 1 of the worlds top 100 universities...an old socialist trick i think!! make the people think that they are well educated)

Place to invest? Warsaw has 150 international conpanies (how many does paris, london or frankfurt have!!! bit of a pointless arguement even a city like liverpool probably has a good fair number)..in fact most of the companies in warsaw are their because they need a polish speaking office to sell foreign goods to poland ...secondly, Have you tried to start a company in Poland? the red tape, the ludicrous employment laws, the total lack of anybody speaking anything but polish (then PROBABLY NOT) and you quote a report that is 7 years old! (FGS) for more recent rankings (2011) take a look at doing business dot org ...poland is 62nd in the world and behind ESTONIA!!!!!, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary in the EU rankings.

To say that the Czech's didn't suffer in the second world war makes a mockery of the suffering that they did have.... but living in AUSTRAILIA what would you know? Polish people tend to be in a perpetual state of self pity and tend to pass blame for anything negative that happens to them to the most convenient person. In fact i was once berated for the Yalta conference and i wasnt born until decades after. It seems to me that Poland even has always had a hisitorical knack of getting into bed with the wrong bedfellows and then blaming those that they didn't sleep with when it all goes wrong.

Finally as an Aussi you will be well aware of what happens when Kraft FK about with chocolate.... Kraft (known for their fantastic cheese products) moved for 1 reason only (wages!!!) and this won't last for long. Consumers in the UK are having a backlash against Kraft people remember and as soon as it starts taking like WEDDEL chocolate it will return . (P.S. Cadbury isnt a British Company) anymore!!

As a businessman who has invested in Poland all i can say to you is.....'If you are an Economist good on you.. most Economists are idiots and most Statisticians are 99.9% wrong!'

I couldn't have put it better myself. And i think we will leave it there.

is he not simply dealing with the question asked "Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?"
are you suggesting he keep his mouth shut or leave the country?

well said milky...

I'm just giving a constructive arguement to the original posting.

Expat.... im doing ok over here. I have a good sized apartment and a polish fiance (trying to up the gene pool) who fears for her country. I earn well over the national average and we are saving for a second apartment to rent (we also own a house in Mazury for the summer)..and I have been here three years. My business is growing and we are taking on more international clients. To say that poor Poles are all alcoholics and miners 'get what they deserve' is crass and idiotic.

I agree that most english people are monolingual (i speak a little polish..enough to get buy, but understand alot more) but then again when the internet, international finance,international transportation and international business is done in English then do we need to bother as much?

as for being 'stuck' i have a job where I am in demand and can comfortably up sticks and live where i like.... in the polish winters the thought has crossed my mind.

You seem to be very anti english... problems in the past?

Hi Expat

As an international company I spend time out of the company. I have had the odd lesson im not fluent but can hold a conversation and understand as i said before, more then i can say. Living in a city it's hard sometimes to find Poles who don't want to speak english to you.

I have been with 'her indoors' for a year and she isn't at all interested in Politics. Whereas, i am. I don't hold with this EU rubbish and have been quite active in trying to get the Poles to allow us expats to vote in elections here.

I pay my taxes (as you well know is a massive amount) so believe that i have as much say as the next man. I don't support either side but do know the consequences (as seen elsewhere in Europe) of the 'eyes closed shut' 'brown nosed' policies of the present lot.

I hope i've answered your concerns.

wbj.


You do realise the the Poles are the most pro-EU country in Europe and for a good reason - they want to part of Europe and not Russia, They want the military security of being allied to NATO and the west and piffle the British have about the EU is way, way down the list of priorities.

Hi Peter

Take 1.66% off that GDP amount and poland's real GDP is a (massaged) 0.9 percent! get your figures right!

the Poles are pro europe for one reason.... let me spell it out! the 1.66% of their GDP (over 6billion) that is given free of charge to them by the EU. Take this away from the so called 'success story' and their artificial GDP and poland would be a different place. You can't argue with that. Poland has less people working them 5 years ago, have an artificially high GDP, are slammed by the EU regarding keeping company taxes low and disregard any eu demands for a cut in coal consumption. And people on here think the economy is in a wonderful shape.

Poland has an aging polulation and has an exodus of younger tax payers (not all return money to poland and some are evening staying away) so I cant see how they could ever reduce the public finance longterm without a serious 'massaging of the figures' or an increase in either personal or company tax.

I despair.

Couldn't forums put a test on topics, something like, "answer this simple mathematical Question".
Obviously if its a compound interest question 98% of the general population is going to fail it. Sorry, thats a joke you won't get. The vast majority of people don't seem to know how to do junior school maths.


Poland got the six billions the previous year and every other year for five years. So quite obviously you would have to take off last years figures as well because its a constant.

Increase in GDP is the increase in the constant base value, the EU money isn't added as growth, it adds to growth which is calculated on the whole of the GDP.

And yes, the EU help makes Polands GDP grow. This is what you give up independence for and Poland did it willingly.

Once the GDP grown it will allow Polish people's wages and the country's standard of living to be the same as other western countries. It will be able to spend money increasing the quality of health care and building its armed forces to defend against invasion.

Absolutely marvelous, and the Poles are very happy about it.

'the EU money isn't added as growth, it adds to growth which is calculated on the whole of the GDP ---- fail!!!!!'

If you lived in Poland Peter you'd know for sure that not all Poles are happy about giving up everything for a quick buck! Poland has a problem because it doesnt know how to fend for itself for an awful long time being ran and looked after by the eu, the Russians (unwittingly), the germans and the jews! This whole independant poland rubbish doesnt wash. the Germans are now the masters of Poland and have done it without spilling one drop of German blood!

Hi Cameron (it that the correct spelling?)

If the only way to win an arguement is to insult the other person then you indeed are the 'Moron.' or a 'TROLL' ;)

Milky is definately right about you two. The way forums work is that somebody (ie. me) gives an arguement regarding a topic that they have knowledge about... be it right or wrong. The next person, to whom we shall call the responder then has a simple but enjoyable tax of giving a counter-argument to rubbish the said claims and so on....

The way you two do it is.... i reply...you call me a 'troll' (whatever it is!!! i thought it was a supernatural norse legend!) throw the odd insult and then congratulate each other...

Please lads grow up!

I stand by what i said, but to add to that you are also an anti Semite. And I have no time for idiots or racists.

Hague

An anti-semite really? What anti-semitic statements have i made?

You are allowed to call someone that as its accepted that all Poles are anti-semitic. Pointing out thats someone is uneducated or plain stupid is a no-no, so think it as a swappable insult.

This debate is catching upto the old '303 squadron saving GB' story.

Peterweg do you or have you ever lived in Poland?

Polands positive GDP is just that, its not a reflection of true monetary capacity or quality of life for ordinary citizens. Many people I know in Poland are worse off under the EU, brother in laws company recently went into admisisrtation, another close friends hospital was taken over (privatised) and she was consequently offered to accept 20% less wages or take a run and jump. Many of the smaller towns/villages are virtual ghost towns full of old people and mothers with children, its difficult to find men aged between 20 - 45 in these types of places.

EU success story - my dupa

Well said Wroclaw boy... problem with people that don't live here is that they are talking using stats and figures that are put out by the Polish government or the failing EU. I live in Poland and pay Polish taxes and therefore see things slightly differents. The main street in gdynia is now mainly cash lenders there were none 3 years ago.

Make up your mind, you do wants stats... so would you prefer we simply insult you?


Yup. Apparently so.

Poles will sing to high heaven about anything positive, you cant blame them really...looking at their history. I dont want to offend with that statement its merely an observation, as some on here know - i despise patriotism.


You dont live in Poland do you. Nothing worse than those back seat drivers, all the talk but know nothing.

Peterweg

what the hell are you going on about???? You've lost me....Earth calling Peter! come in!!!

Hi Wroclaw

there is nothing wrong with what you say and nothing wrong with being a patriot. Alot of posters (living outside of Poland) on here quote the 'official' stats and go on about the so called 'success' story that is Poland. The same people then tend to get personal when you give them a counter argument and tell them the 'truth' as to what is really happening here.

As i said before Polish GDP is rising (a lot slower and less then 5 years ago) but total employment is still going down. As you correctly pointed out some small town and villages are barren of anybody under the age of 30 years of working age these people have economically migrated from Poland to other "less successful" european countries that arn't as 'successful' as Poland. Seems funny that a country as fantastically successful as Poland should have a falling population and all of its youngsters emmigrating! In fact it'll not be long before successful Poland will just be a country full of pensioners!! How long before more Poles are born outside of Poland then inside!!!

My country (the UK) is in recession but is still a magnet for about 1 million other immigrants a year and why? Better communication, better housing, health care, benefit system, more jobs, better schooling.... better then Poland.....

But then again according to the original poster.... Poland's Economy Is Booming! (booming on the back of cheap labour!)

You obviously don't live in Poland or read these forums much, so leave the personal insults out of it.


Thats how it works.

Ireland for instance is a dirt poor country with low wages and poor infrastructure. This will never change. The Irish are doomed to be forever cheap labour for foreign companies. The Average wage in Ireland is half that of the rest of the EU. There are no motorways, few airports in Ireland, and most educated Irish will have to emigrate for a future unless they want to farm potatoes.