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Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?


hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
12 Aug 2012  #661
A list of EU countries by GDP (PPP) per capita (an indicator of a country's standard of living):

in 15 Years they should move ahead of Malta, Greece, Portugal, Cyprus, and Spain.
cms 9 | 1,272
12 Aug 2012  #662
The cars thing is not really an indication of wealth, more a sign of immaturity in people's attitude to wealth. Most are leased or bought by employers, in fact if you speak to employers here one frustration is that you rarely get half an hour in to an interview with even clever candidates before they start bellyaching about what car they want. And I've almost come to blows with people demanding black cars when the group policy is blue.

Delphians parable about the guy with alcoholic parents is a case in point. A top of the range merc is pushing 300 k zloty. If the guy really wanted to give his own kids a stable start he would pay down a big chunk of his house with that and make do with a Volkswagen or ford
teflcat 5 | 1,032
12 Aug 2012  #663
Most are leased or bought by employers,

You no doubt know a lot more about this than I do, but are there really that many company cars in Poland? I know quite a few middle-ranking corporate types who do not have one.

If the guy really wanted to give his own kids a stable start he would pay down a big chunk of his house with that and make do with a Volkswagen or ford

Well, it's his dough, so he can do what he wants with it, although I agree that there is a lot of vanity involved these days (was it ever any different?). I recently bought a car, nothing flash but in good condition and economical. I could have bought a twelve-year-old Jaguar for the same money (which would have made me happy) but being realistic I need something that will last a while and not let me down. I have to smile when people in old Audis and Mercs overtake me in an apparrent show of superiority!
LordFab - | 16
14 Aug 2012  #664
Poland will grow incredibly as long as they will not join Euros. Anyway they should reach the same level of Spain in about 15-20 Years considering that Spain is the main competitor in terms of populations.

Spain 30 yrs ago was in worst condition than Poland is now. The main problem and the longer to sort will be the infrastructures. They normally take years to be completed and billions of investments.

But once done that it will be the final boost for the country.
legend 3 | 664
15 Aug 2012  #665
Poland should aim for the 50 million mark imo by something like 2050. (At the moment its projected to go below 35 million by that date as per several sources which im too lazy to look up again). And give "help" to people with 3 or more children. Tax breaks, incraese of income, whatever. I believe Putin is doing this (hes not in the EU obviously), EUs large purpose is to destroy European society similar to what this article mentions:

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395]
Ethnic Poles should be preferable to third world immigrants.

In the short term economy might slow down but eventually it can become a stronger "power". Biggest economies and many of the biggest emerging economies are largely populated.

Larger population should help in various ways like better/larger military, more international power, more jobs- more production, more olympic medals (lol), etc.
Wroclaw Boy
15 Aug 2012  #666
Larger population should help in various ways like better/larger military, more international power, more jobs- more production, more olympic medals (lol), etc.

destruction to our planet.....
legend 3 | 664
22 Aug 2012  #667
etfdailynews.com/2012/08/20/lord-jacob-rothschild-john-paulson-george-soros-are-all-betting-on-a-financial-collapse/

Lord Jacob Rothschild, John Paulson & George Soros Are All Betting On A Financial Collapse

Michael Snyder: Are you willing to bet against three of the wealthiest men in the entire world? Jacob Rothschild recently bet approximately 200 million dollars that the euro will go down. Billionaire hedge fund manager John Paulson made somewhere around 20 billion dollars betting against the U.S. housing market during the last financial crisis, and now he has made huge bets that the euro will go down and that the price of gold will go up. And as I wrote about in my last article, George Soros put approximately 130 million more dollars into gold last quarter. So will the euro plummet like a rock? Will the price of gold absolutely soar? Well, if a massive financial disaster does occur both of those two things are likely to happen. The European economy is becoming more unstable with each passing day, and investors all over the globe are looking for safe places to put their money. The mainstream media keeps telling us that everything is going to be okay, but the global elite are sending us a much, much different message by their actions. Certainly Rothschild, Paulson and Soros know about things happening in the financial world that the rest of us don't. The fact that they are all behaving in a consistent manner right now should be alarming for all of us.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
22 Aug 2012  #668
The European economy is becoming more unstable with each passing day, and investors all over the globe are looking for safe places to put their money.

I posted this in Oct.2011

"Or could it be that the banks made some dodgy loans/investments which are causing liquidity problems + the new financial regulations which are insisting on 9% capitol reserves. If banks have been leveraging the debts because of greed, they are going to have a problem lending any more money. Its not a case of "what the banks know", its "what we don't know about the banks". How much toxic debt do they still have on their books?, how much soveriegn debt that will never be repaid?, any more 50% write downs?"

I was wrong, the write downs for Greece were 75% and could still go to 100%.

Banks are still not lending and the Euro is under considerable threat.
oxon 4 | 164
11 Oct 2012  #669
A little lesson for some of the more unfortunate minds on this post....

Conspicuous consumption, or ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ describes the purchase of goods to show status or display wealth. Once more apparent within the nouveau riche or upper-income groups, recent research has indicated how conspicuous consumption is common in emerging economies, where people buy to combat the impression that they are poor.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
13 Oct 2012  #670
Poland: bye bye austerity

Donald Tusk addressed the Polish parliament on Friday morning, promising not blood, sweat and belt-tightening but massive new spending programmes aimed at boosting growth.

While stressing that he did not want to derail progress on reducing the deficit and public debt, Tusk promised that spending on new highways, rail modernisation, power plants, a natural gas terminal and new pipelines would be ramped up starting in 2013. The total spending for the next few years comes to about 220bn zlotys ($70bn), although much of what Tusk detailed has already been committed under previous spending plans.

Stressing growth over fiscal tightening seems to be having very little negative impact on markets. Poland remains one of the fastest growing EU countries, and one of the few where public debt ratios are falling. Earlier this week, yields on Polish five-year bonds hit a record low and the cost of insuring Polish debt fell below that of France, says Jacek Rostowski, the finance minister.

blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/10/12/poland-bye-bye-austerity/
Bieganski 17 | 901
13 Oct 2012  #671
Poland's success hasn't benefitted many levels of society. Poland continues to need external aid and received its latest handout this past Thursday: EU grants Poland 77 million euro food aid package.

Poland is among the top three recipients of food aid being beating out by two other EU countries with very shaky economies:

A sum of 500 million euro was shared out on Thursday, with Italy, Spain and Poland being granted the largest portions.

The scheme, which is channelled towards enclaves of poverty across the European Union, brings free food to approximately 18 million EU citizens.

peterweg 36 | 2,316
13 Oct 2012  #672
two other EU countries with very shaky economies:

Two countries with twice the per capita wealth of Poland gets more food aid.

Give how comparatively poor Poland is, I think it shows how well it is doing
warszawianka - | 31
13 Oct 2012  #673
rail modernisation

does anyone remember the tunnel that was built on outskirts of warsaw somewhere and reportedly when they measured the opening they realized it was too narrow to get any train through there? I remember something about it being reported on news radio here a few years back. Just curious if anyone knew the outcome.
Ant63 11 | 403
13 Oct 2012  #674
Give how comparatively poor Poland is, I think it shows how well it is doing

at claiming benefits

Sorry : Couldn't resist
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
13 Oct 2012  #675
Poland continues to need external aid and received its latest handout this past Thursday:

Anyone who knows anything about the EU knows that money handed out usually isn't on the basis of need, but rather how good their politicians are. Trying to claim that Poland needs "external aid" is factually incorrect at best.
Bieganski 17 | 901
13 Oct 2012  #676
So if the earmarking of this money isn't based on the need of people living in poverty but the craftiness of politicians to grab as much cash as they can then what is Poland going to do with the 77 million euros it received for food aid?

Are you saying that Polish EU ministers misappropriated these funds since those who require food assistance in Poland are at drastically lower levels or they don't even exist? Is Poland going to use the money to buy up food on the cheap and then resell it at inflated prices back to the Polish public or on the international markets?

Or will Polish politicians further misappropriate this aid by syphoning it off to other pet projects or even to their private bank accounts since according to you Poland's need for external aid is "factually incorrect"?

The money Poland just received from the EU has to go somewhere.

It should be embarrassing enough for the current government to be lining up and asking for handouts at the EU level especially since Poland has been able to largely escape the full brunt of the wider Eurozone's woes; at least in macro-level statistics. If this money was lobbied for based on deliberate misinformation then that really would be a damning indictment of the Tusk regime now wouldn't it?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
13 Oct 2012  #677
So if the earmarking of this money isn't based on the need of people living in poverty but the craftiness of politicians to grab as much cash as they can then what is Poland going to do with the 77 million euros it received for food aid?

No, it's based on the ability of politicians to get as much from the EU budget for their own people as possible. Anyone who has studied the EU in any sort of depth can see that the funding arrangements are dreadful and subject to intense lobbying from member states. And that's speaking as someone who supports EU integration.

Is Poland going to use the money to buy up food on the cheap and then resell it at inflated prices back to the Polish public or on the international markets?

No, Poland is going to use the money to avoid spending their own. It's rather simple.

Or will Polish politicians further misappropriate this aid by syphoning it off to other pet projects or even to their private bank accounts since according to you Poland's need for external aid is "factually incorrect"?

Again, more sensationalism. They're going to spend it in the right way, just that they were able to use their clout to get it in the first place.

It should be embarrassing enough for the current government to be lining up and asking for handouts at the EU level especially since Poland has been able to largely escape the full brunt of the wider Eurozone's woes; at least in macro-level statistics. If this money was lobbied for based on deliberate misinformation then that really would be a damning indictment of the Tusk regime now wouldn't it?

Yawn. This money has little or nothing to do with a country's finances and everything to do with how skillful their politicians are at getting money for the country. Poland always has been rather good at getting money from the EU since 1989 - nothing new there, move on.

Anyway, use of "Tusk regime" tells us exactly what you are. Nothing but a typical PiS supporting foreigner who doesn't even live here.
Bieganski 17 | 901
13 Oct 2012  #678
So I'll ask again, is the 77 million euros in food aid going to be spent on the many poor in Poland who have not benefited from the recent years of growth or was the money misappropriated?
pawian 159 | 9,477
13 Oct 2012  #679
In the Polish outback people, especially children, are starving. They are cut off from civilisation, cannot grow enough food due to severe climate and infertile land, they need our help. Please, donate generously.

s
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
13 Oct 2012  #680
So I'll ask again, is the 77 million euros in food aid going to be spent on the many poor in Poland who have not benefited from the recent years of growth or was the money misappropriated?

I think you'll find that there are very few people in Poland who haven't benefited in some way from the years of growth.

And it will be spent where it's supposed to be spent. No doubt there will be plenty handed out to those who drank all their money and left their wives to pick up the pieces.

As I said - anyone who studies the EU in any depth will know exactly why Poland is getting this cash and when it started. It's nothing to do with hungry people and everything to do with history and politics.
Bieganski 17 | 901
13 Oct 2012  #681
An evasive reply that starts out in very general terms and quickly ends with a personal attack on your Polish hosts.

Thanks for your admission.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
13 Oct 2012  #682
Yawn.

As much as you want to try and turn this into the usual "boo hoo Tusk isn't supporting my peasant family with their unproductive farm and their wooden shack where they kill Jews" thread, it's not happening.

The money will certainly find its way to the needy, probably with quite a bit distributed through Caritas. Nothing new there.
Ironside 48 | 9,704
13 Oct 2012  #683
The money will certainly find its way to the greedy,

Well put delph.
As for monies from the EU - Poland could do better without them, also it comes at price and Poland is paying money to the EU. Which shows clearly that all that mambo Brusseliano is just silly in extreme.

Also Poland's economy is not booming is getting worse. Tusk and his cronies - ha!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
13 Oct 2012  #684
Poland could do better without them

Could it?

Who would pay for all those lovely renovation works throughout Poland? Poland certainly doesn't have the cash to pay for it alone.

I was looking on Google Street View yesterday - many Polish villages/town centres now look better than UK ones thanks to the EU.

and Poland is paying money to the EU.

Poland is a net recipient of EU funds. Don't even attempt to pretend otherwise.

Well put delph.

You do realise that editing quotes in order to give a false impression is banned on PF?

Also Poland's economy is not booming is getting worse. Tusk and his cronies - ha!

There's a little thing called "global crisis", you know.
Ironside 48 | 9,704
13 Oct 2012  #685
Could it?

Who would pay for all those lovely renovation works throughout Poland? Poland certainly doesn't have the cash to pay for it alone.

Money stolen by middlemen in black, squandered on redundant bureaucrats and such.

Poland is a net recipient of EU funds. Don't even attempt to pretend otherwise.

So? What the great idea eh? I give you 500zl you will give me 400zl,what gives? Why not hand out 100zl? Somebody is making money on this, and it is not the Polish state, mysterious middlemen in black of EU kind?

I was looking on Google Street View yesterday - many Polish villages/town centres now look better than UK ones thanks to the EU.

Yet people are no better and economy is not better thanks to those decent looking centres, take a look-see behind the curtains.

ou do realise that editing quotes in order to give a false impression is banned on PF?

No I do not!I just wanted to agree on something with you delph, cannot be blamed for that.

There's a little thing called "global crisis", you know.

Is there? I thought Poland didn't have to bail out not-so-privet-privet-banks.Are you telling me that taxpayers in Poland had to pay for bankers luxuries too?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
14 Oct 2012  #686
Who would pay for all those lovely renovation works throughout Poland? Poland certainly doesn't have the cash to pay for it alone.

Probably no one. When a country is poor, authorities shouldn't spend money on anything else than crtical needs, "lovely renovation works" do not belong there. "External aid" in such case... makes as much sense as subsidising 80% of costs of buying a car by some poor guy, who next will be struggeling to pay for fuel and insurence. Can you show me any country, which actually benefited so much from these stupid EU subsidies ? All those, which you would have listed few years ago are in very deep s*itt now. They all had their "lovely renovation works" subsidised by EU for far far longer than Poland.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
14 Oct 2012  #687
Can you show me any country, which actually benefited so much from these stupid EU subsidies ?

Sure, let's talk about France.

You also forget that the EU organises much more beyond the structural funds. Erasmus and EVS has done so much for Poland in recent years.

So? What the great idea eh? I give you 500zl you will give me 400zl,what gives?

Except that the numbers are much more in favour of Poland than that.
Malopolanin 3 | 134
20 Nov 2013  #688
How much one can buy for average salary in Poland - 2003 and 2013:

EU destroyed Poland. Time to destroy EU.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
20 Nov 2013  #689
EU destroyed Poland. Time to destroy EU.

Hahahahahaha. I wondered how long it would be before someone brought this up.

For a start, what that graph fails to acknowledge is that taxes actually fell in that time. Then it also fails to acknowledge some of the realities - such as 2003's public transport network mostly relying on old Communist-era vehicles which didn't have to be paid for. Then there's the fact that some stuff (such as meat) is naturally more expensive simply because standards have risen - no longer is it acceptable to treat animals terribly.

As for petrol - I don't know how to explain this to you, but oil prices in 2003 were around $30 a barrel. Compare to today, where the price is actually over $100 - and you can see that the price hasn't risen anywhere near as much as it should have.
Ironside 48 | 9,704
20 Nov 2013  #690
Rostkowski is running away. I'm waiting for BOOM! ing

How much one can buy for average salary in Poland - 2003 and 2013:

A Good table


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