Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?

Here is a relevant story about this subject. I hope this couple win their lawsuit.

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/210799,Lesbian-couple-files-against-Poland-in-daughters-birth-certificate-wrangle

They will, it's an open-and-shut case. The only question is how much taxpayer money the Polish authorities want to waste on a guaranteed loss.

Exactly. Taxpayers' money being wasted to please some voters. How sad.

I forgot substance abuse -- also higher in homo liaisons.


I am wel aware of the fact that some private sites have included the Bell and Weinberg research and those are impervious to the LGBTQ censorship brigade without the consent of the owners. But the original academic research is easy enough to deal with - just visit the academics and intimidate them a bit with the homophobe card and they'll retract everything, add disclaimers or whatever.

Meanwhile, here's some more information for you to hone your vitriol on and find clever ways to undermine, debunk and ridicule. The theme: Harry and homos are perfect and without blame!

The Sexual Organization of the City, University of Chicago sociologist Edward Laumann argues that "typical gay city inhabitants spend most of their adult lives in 'transactional' relationships, or short-term commitments of less than six months."[5]

A study of homosexual men in the Netherlands published in the journal AIDS found that the "duration of steady partnerships" was 1.5 years.[6]

In his study of male homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, Pollak found that "few homosexual relationships last longer than two years, with many men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners."[7]

I wonder why you haven't bothered to attribute that quote. Could it be because the quote comes from this website: .frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02

Yep, that's the "Family Research Council" yet again, it really does seem to be your favourite anti-gay hate group.

Anyway, have you contacted your internet service provider to find out why your access to certain sites has been blocked?

Everybody, what's the Poland's background on this issue? Please keep to the topic more.

So the rainbow will be moved to a museum it seems around the end of the year - not the city dump. And yeah I went by earlier and I failed to notice the police detachment with armored vehicles and attack dogs that certain PolAm media (that belongs in that city dump) has been talking about lately.

I would ask if the LGBT citizen respect human and civil rights of the social order they belong to as well as a respective civilization the modern culture has been build upon.

In Polish law, homosexuality or transsexuality were never penalized nor criminalized. It's OK to be gay in Poland since 966...
Sex change surgery is free under state health care insurance. So "Dog Day Afternoon" scenario is impossible (just like Breaking Bad one too).

Concerning marriages, yes you can obtain same rights that hetero-couples have, but you just need a lot of paperwork with notary. It's known to be practiced.

Also b'cos of the legislative war around in-vitro in Poland, in-vitro method is practically unregulated. So gay-couples can easily get surrogate children.

@blah; what bs are you talking about? 1. Same sex marriage does not exist in Poland 2. sex gays cannot adopt 3. sex change operations are not allowed in Poland (and as in most of countries, the few trans in Poland go to countries like Thailand, to have their operations) and 4. LGBT people are discriminated against in their daily life in Poland

PS: do you happen to know any homosexual in Poland? I seriously doubt it otherwise you would know that their life is far from easy...

@Gosc123456:
1. Same sex marriage does not exist in Poland - Like I said , there is no same-sex mariages, but samesex couples have a wayaround that problem. They sign a set of papers, testimonies and contracts in notary. Anybody can do that. Only problem is obtaining medical data in case of SUDDEN accident.

2. sex gays cannot adopt - sure, but can raise own children
3. Stick to the facts. First sex-change surgery in Poland took place in 1969. nowadays is refunded by state healthcare. crossdressing.pl/main.php?lv3_id=820
We (Poles) have transexual Sejm representative (lower house of Parliament). First in the world.
4. Depends where they live. Maybe in smaller cities and eastern Poland thats a problem. But in western Poland and bigger, nobody cares.
AND LIKE I MENTIONED: THERE WAS AND IS NO DISCRIMINATION OF LGBT BY LAW EVER in Poland. In contrary to Germany, USA or England.

Sort of yes. State institutions (including prisons) have guidelines which accommodate the fact that someone's significant other can be the same gender.


Again, sort of. It depended on which county's flag was flying at the time, and during the PRL the law was abused.

And that is as it should be if we ask the simple question:
Who is more important: homos or heteros, men or women? None of them!

THE MOST IMPORTANT ARE THE KIDS who have their whole life ahead of them. It is up to the adult community to make that childhood safe, stable and rewarding. Frequently cited reasons why homosexual couples are ill-suited to adopt and raise orphans include:

**lack of father and mother role models (distorted sexual identity)
**relationships of short averąge duration (early family breka-up)
**promiscuity (third-party liaisons)
** high level of substance abuse (alcohol, drugs, nicotine)
**high level of domestic violence
**sexual abuse threat to adopted adolescents.

If this issue does not interest you, simply ignore it. If it does, do some exploring in search of evidence to either confirm or disavow it.

@jon357, everybody's personal laws were abused in PRL, it was an communist regime after all. Being gay or no was irrelevant.
But even back then, homosexuality or prostitution wasn't penalized in contrary to USSR or US where you could go to prison for such crimes.

Even in medieval times there was no state punishment for LGBT in Poland, We always had more important problems...like Germans or Russians ;)

Common people's approach to LGBT is different story, but like I said before it depends on place. In bigger cities there are gay-clubs and you can easlu find gay-escort service. Sure it's not so flashy like in Berlin, but it's not Russia either.

@Blah; even if "legal", you cannot deny that LGBT people face a lot of discrimation in their daily life in Poland and as to A. Grodzka, be informed that she could become a MP only because she was on top of the party's list (no.2 if I remember right). You know very well that she would never have been elected if under her sole name.

There was a very specific police action including recording names. Plus a very interesting rail strike in Warsaw in the
80s connected to LGBT issues - I won't give details since certain people are still alive and it is best not discussed yet.


The key laws that shaped today's were from the post-Napoleon legal code in the German zabór.


Spot on. Escort services are not my field (popular though they are in PL judging by the number of leaflets tucked under windscreen wipers) but yes, the bar/club scene is fairly healthy.

@Blah: yes, they are gay clubs in Polish cities but for security reasons, they don't advertize their "nature". You know, even in places like Iran (where sex change operations are perfectly legal and frequent ;)) has gay clubs (but of course very discrete ;)).

As to sex change operations, how many in Poland? A. Grodzka for instance went to Thailand

@Gosc123456 - there are no official records about SCS but, according to fragments of statistics or interviews I managed to found that I can easily assume that are around 50 surgeries each year.

Why Thailand? B'cos it's cheaper and faster. And keep in mind that Grodzka done her surgery in mid 40's, so...quite late.

And unfortunatelly yes, there are discrimination. But in my HighSchool (big city in Northern-Western Poland), there was few open LGBT activists, nobody were discriminating them, even when they were walking around neighborhound holding hands or wearing "fancy" clothes. Simple to say - nobody care about this or skin colour. More important for divisions(and discriminations, conflicts) were cases of your favourite football team or music genre you listen too...

@Blah; even in more tolerant countries, there is discrimination (even illegal) towards LGBT people so trust me in countries like Poland it's more so....

Like said, I know quite a few LGBT people, including activists and I know a lot of the difficulties they encounter in their daily life.

PS: I saw A. Grodzka a few days ago and personally I admire her because it is not easy (and like said, if she was elected, it is only because she was no.2 on her party's list).

@Gosc123456 I know. I'm not gay, but I witnessed LGBT and racial intolerance in so liberal and tolerant city of Berlin.
What I want to say, is that the saying the Poland is intolerant or oppressive toward LGBT (and any other minorities) is exaggeration.

@Blah: what do you want that they are killed so you can say they are not treated fairly? I suppose you don't hang around gays so do read their sites (there are several associations in Poland) and you'll be informed.

Sorry but for me, Germany is no example of "tolerance". Germany is a conservative and religious country where gays don't have the right to be married (to gays). If you want to see tolerance, you need to go to further west (though there are still some intolerant people). Probably the most tolerant can be found in countries like .. Iceland (they even had a lesbian president, married to her girl friend and everybody there found it ok).

It doesn't work like that in Poland. Candidates are elected because of how many personal votes they get combined with the total percentage for their party. So if a party gains two mandates, then the two candidates with the most votes from the list get elected.

@Teargas: I know people who voted for Palikot's list in Krakow and did not even know about A.G. being "what she is". I bet that A.G. would have never been elected if she had to candidate under her sole name and not on her party's list. There is no way in Poland (and in 99% of countries anyway) that she would have been elected. There is the reason why she could not have made it in the presidential election. Because of "what she is", how many potential voters dare reading her program? Close to 0.1% unfortunately. Like I said, in 99% of the countries, situation would be the same.

Everyone knew about Grodzka before the election, it was one of the highest profile candidates for Ruch Palikota at the time.

How someone could vote for a candidate without knowing anything about them is beyond me.

@Teargas: do you think in a city as conservative as Krakow is, "someone like A.G." could have been elected other than on a party's list? Even if we consider that over 50% of Poles don't vote and thus any one elected does in fact represent so few people, she could not be elected under her sole name and she knows it. It is unfortunate but this is reality and this is not a "Polish problem" since everywhere about the same. At the presidental election, she would have made less than 1% (and since over 50% did not vote, it would have meant a few hundreds people in the whole country). Sorry, but if a few hundreds or at most a few thousands of people vote for someone "different", it does not mean the place more tolerant than others. We need to consider both the participation level and the election system.

@Teargas: those people voted for Palikot's list which explains why they didn't bother reading more but anyway, for them, it was no problem when they found out ;)

@Teargas; do you think people read programs or lack thereof? Do you think people who have voted for Kukiz know that he has no program? As said, in parliamentary elections, people vote for lists and sorry they usually don't bother checking everybody on the list. Like also said, those I refer to who did not know re AG were not schocked when they found out ;)

@Teargas: to finish: when people vote for lists, they vote for the party's ideas and not because X has blue eyes, Y has a good looking wife or Z is handsome.

Back to the topic please

There was no LGBTQ lobby back then. The few sexual misfits certainly didn't go parading through the streets with "JESTEM ***" placards, because hardly anyone would be able to read them. If he shouted it, he'd get run out of town on a dungcart.

Does anyone now?

No, Pol3, they don't. Except in your foul imagination.

I've certainly never seen anyone with a placard like that, not at any of the Warsaw Pride parades or anywhere else. Just as I have never seen the riot police and their attack dogs which supposed mount a round the clock guard on the supposed symbol of Poland's LGBT citizens.

One notable exception was if the offender was generally regarded as the village idiot, he could get away with a lot more. So, when somone like that known to do the job on a goat, pig or another male appeared, people would just knowingly wink at each other or tap their foreheads.


Words such as homosexual and gay are rather recent constructs. The term sodomy is much older and was certainly known to mediaval chroniclers and clergy (the few literate people around at that time), but it is doubtful whether the average Polish villager of that epoch would have been familiar with it. Some very explicit and earthy peasant term would have been the most likely.

Fortunately society has developed since the days of medieval villages and is developing still.

If you regard legalising sodomy as an advancement, well there's no law against holding such a view. But some poster was ahistorically contending that mediaeval Catholic Poland tolerated sexual deviations because there were no state laws against them. The point is -- as any historian can confirm -- that the king and his court had far more important matters at hand than to concern themselves with a sickie chasing farm lads in some remote backwater. Such things were all dealt with locally.