The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 1,169

Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?


Harry
20 Jun 2015 #331
Fortunately society has developed since the days of medieval villages and is developing still.

Society has, individual members still lag behind, as is shown by the aduse directed at those from ethnic and/or sexual minorities.
jon357 63 | 14,255
20 Jun 2015 #332
Such things were all dealt with locally.

So you favour mob rule rather than enlightened legislation...
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Jun 2015 #333
still lag behind

Every totalitarianism has used similar phraseology. The Stalinists called such people out of step with the progressive march to the "workers' paradise" -- communism. Hitler was concerned about those who hadn't grasped the beauty and profundity of the Germanic peoples' "civilising mission". Today's PC and LGBTQ types say those who want to leave decent, normal lives are lagging behind full-blown libertinism.

The players may change, but the principle is always the same: every totalitarian culture demands that its agenda should be fully accepted. Or else!
Gosc123456
20 Jun 2015 #334
@Polonius: why are you so obsessed? Why do let's say 1.5% of the society bother you? Unless I'm wrong, what do they do to harm you? Gays can be like heteros good citizens so why are you so anti-gay?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
20 Jun 2015 #335
he is utterly fascinated gosc, he would love to have some big macho gay feel his dupa

These threads are about Polish matters, and not about members
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Jun 2015 #336
Why do let's say 1.5% of the society

They do not bohter me personally. My concern is about this tiny minority's disrportionately large influence due to excessive, heavily bankrolled propaganda on the remaining 98% of society. Parents should be consutled if they want their 4-5-year old asked in preschool if he is hetero or homo or even whether they want their kids exposed to sexualisation of any kind at that age. Most people want to be mothers and fathers and not have some official form list them Parent A and Parent B. There is concern about putting innocent orphans (who have usually been enough already in their young lives) into the hands of adopting homosexuals for reasons already mentioned. Gay marriage cheapens marriage as a whole. Hetero shack-up culture also degrades marriage. And turning unwed mothers, something once shameful and to be avoided, into a "trendy" lifestlye option of singlehood? Just think what is the fate of kids living in such homes with a string of mummy's live-in lovers filing through. No, this is not just about gays. Easy divorce is another childhood crippler. Nothing is more traumatic to youngsters than a divorce, even the so-called civilised one, let alone those involving custody battles, questioned visitng rights, parental abductions, the kids' new "daddy", etc . But all these things are being promoted because there is big money to be made, and money rules the world. Those raking in the dough are not concerned about their negative impact on society as a whole.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
20 Jun 2015 #337
Nothing is more traumatic to youngsters than a divorce,

i disagree, listening to parents argue or living with an alcoholic wife beating dad would be way more traumatic than living with a single mother.

and just because a woman is divorced does not mean she is sexually incontinent.
Gosc123456
20 Jun 2015 #338
True, Rozu, a drinking father beating up his wife in front of their kids is not the ideal. I have heard the case of a "family" near Kutno whose woman, single mother of 5 among whom 2 would be from her father..... I believe my sources. I have also heard the case of a married couple in Warsaw in their 30's, with 5 kids too, father is an alcoholic and violent, unemployed and inemployable, mother barely literate and of course unemployed and inemployable.

Obviously growing up in such "families" is not the best for the kids.

Best to live with a loving and reponsible single mother or father, either hetero or gay rather than with a screwed up "family"
tictactoe
20 Jun 2015 #339
As long as there is a female in the life of the children I have no issue at all.

I do have issue with gay couple's who try to avoid ALL contact with a male/female adult figure for thier children. I actually lived next door to a couple once who did tell thier child " fathers were not needed ". Luckily for the children I reported the two females for abuse to Social Services.

So as long as couples give children the best balanced upbringing they can regardless of gender or sex preferences am all for it.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Jun 2015 #340
argue or living with an alcoholic

Of course, all kinds of different variants can and do occur. Nobody is in favour of any domestic
violence whether hetero or homo, alcohol or drug fuelled, wife or husband beating or destructive fits of rage. But home violence is far more common in shack-up arrangements than amongst married couples. Ask any Polish policemen rourtinely sent to investigate complaints against unruly neighbours. The konkubinat (cohabitating couple) is more often the source of violence than a married couple.

And yes, there may be super-polite kid-gloves divorces, where everything runs smoothly and no open altercations occur. Daddy -- the kids may be told -- has moved to another flat becuase he has to work a lot but he will visit you every weekend. But not all divorces end so ideally, do they? On balance, a non-pathological family with father and mother role models is far more conducive to child rearing and development.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
20 Jun 2015 #341
in an ideal world polonius.

Just among my immediate friends, let's see, we have two fathers that left to start a new family, leaving the mothers to support the chldren alone, one of which took the children's savings with him.

We have one who just came by to steal from his family, left to start a new one, dumped them off too and then eventually had to be removed from the premises by his teenage sons.

We have another who used to beat the mum in front of the son, and the son too, yet the family court ordered that he should return to the family home.

actually there is more but it is tiring me to type these sad tales.

So mothers who are doing their best to raise their children do not need someone like you thundering from the pulpit about 'single mummies' and gay men thank you very much. Perhaps if more men stepped up to the mark, there would be fewer of us.

IMO two stable gay men would be better than some drunken absent feckwith
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Jun 2015 #342
in an ideal world polonius.

It's not an ideal world but shoiuldn't each of us at least strive for some ideal? All too often people use anecdotal evidence (my aunt did this or that or I know soemone who...) to prove a point but likelihood should also be considered. So a stable gay relationship might be better to raise a child in than a married couple of alcoholics. But possibly a stable marirage would be better way of presenting kids with both

role models than a stable single-gender one and would probably endure longer.
Due to Hollywood's glamourisation of fly-by-night behaviour people's resistance to dysfucntional situations has been lowered and that is part of the problem. If footloose walk-away daddies, slutty unwed mothers and othera acting like total creeps were socially stigmatised and blackballed as they should be, maybe we'd have less irresponsibile egoism about. But the overly permissive society and its "anything goes" popculture has people tolerating increasingly negative situations and saying things like people aren't perfect, the world is not ideal, life is what it is.... and that apparently is supposed to explain away every type of stupidity and misconduct.

Merged: Cardinal Nycz, Catholics, Lutherans, Jews oppose homosexual unions

In his homily delivered on Sunday, Warsaw Metropolitan Archbishop Card. Kazimierz Nycz warned against the threat to children posed by the spread of gender ideology and praised Italian families for opposing homo unions and adoptions.

Hundreds of thousands of Italians marked Family Day in Rome on Saturday with a massive protest against Italy's planned civil-union bill. Although most of hte dmeontsratros were Catholic, it was a

truly ecumenical event organised by the Pan-Lutheran Ministries (PLM).
"Human life and the family have been attacked on all fronts, it is appropriate and necessary to mobilise in defence of life and the family throughout Europe," the PLM president told the demonstrators.

Rabbi Yehuda Levin, spokesman for the Rabbinical Alliance of America (RAA), expressed the support of 1000 rabbis in the US and Canada for those who oppose all attempted laws aimed at the recognition of homosexual unions.

dici.org/en/news/italy-family-day-in-rome/
Zman
21 Jun 2015 #343
Who cares what a bunch of bigots say?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jun 2015 #344
bunch of bigots

It's called pluralism, the thing all totalitarian systems -- Stalinist, Hitlerite, genderist/LGBTQ -- oppose.
You can tell if a movement or poltical current is totalitarian when it says. WE REPRESENT THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH. Anyone who dares express a divergent opinion is an "enemy of the people", "homophobe" or "anti-Nazi".

The PC/genderist/LGBTQ formation is the main totalitarianisn of the 21st century. Heil Grodzka-Biedroń!
jon357 63 | 14,255
21 Jun 2015 #345
Catholic

You can tell if a movement or poltical current is totalitarian when it says. WE REPRESENT THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH.

Oh, the irony!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jun 2015 #346
No irony. Every religion or movement can claim that but only totalitarian ones try to enforce it. The mediaeval Catholic Church would certainly qualify as totalitarian. It no longer is. In the 21st century The PC/LGBTQ campaign has taken its place. But you are not alone -- there are also your fellow-totalitarians from ISIS!
jon357 63 | 14,255
21 Jun 2015 #347
It no longer is.

So the RCC admit they don't represent 'the truth'?

LGBTQ

I've never heard either of the two politicians you mention say they represent 'the truth'.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jun 2015 #348
they represent 'the truth

Clutching at straws.... They and today's homo/PC lobby accept only their version of reality, their take on things and their only correct and proper buzzwords and ideology. Anyone who dares disagree and exercise their right to freedom of speech can expect reprisals of one sort or another. That is how the totalitarian mind functions.
jon357 63 | 14,255
21 Jun 2015 #349
They and today's homo/PC lobby accept only their version of reality

How would you know?

Anyone who dares disagree and exercise their right to freedom of speech can expect reprisals

Plenty of people exercising their right to free speech on here without 'reprisals' and the internet's full of people saying what they think. Don't be paranoid.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jun 2015 #350
without 'reprisals'

The internet is full of everything under the sun. But people in responsible posts can be sacked for expresisng their views if they run counter to homo Big Brother. The great muzzler is the homophobe card. At the very sound of it people are supposed to tremble with fear and fall into line like the victims of every totalitarian system. Many do and try ot justify their cowardice by saing "I've got a family to support, have to put kids through school..". And every totalitarianism has found that the most effective tactic is fear.

thejournal.ie/transphobia-homophobia-workplace-1467845-May2014
jon357 63 | 14,255
21 Jun 2015 #351
homo Big Brother.

More paranoia.

But people in responsible posts

Should behave with appropriate discretion.

thejournal.ie/transphobia-homophobia-workplace-1467845-May2014/

Excellent. People paid by the taxpayer should take great care not to deliberately offend.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Jun 2015 #352
appropriate discretion.

Not agreeing with the agenda of LGBTQ or any other organisation is a democratic right, not a cause for reprisals. Same-sex marriage is a public issue and like all issues has two or more sides. People in a democratic system are free to choose whichever side coincides with their system of beliefs and values.

The paranoid ones are the ones who try to affix the homophobe label to any dissenter exercising their freedom of expression. As has already been amply pointed out, that is a tell-tale indicator of the totalitarian mind so typical of LGBTQ agitators.
jon357 63 | 14,255
21 Jun 2015 #353
Not agreeing with the agenda of LGBTQ or any other organisation is a democratic right, not a cause for reprisals. Same-sex marriage is a public issue and like all issues has two or more sides. People in a democratic system are free to choose whichever side coincides with their system of beliefs and values.

Whoever said people have to agree or disagree with anything?

Deliberate discrimination in public life is a whole different ballgame as you know. Someone might dislike Poles - that doesn't mean their behaviour as, say, a teacher, can involve treating a Polish pupil differently. That teacher can think whatever they like; they can not however treat someone with disrespect.

So we've established that your so-called 'reprisals' based on people's private opinions are nothing more than your fantasy. Now you can run along and climb back under your stone - Poland does not significantly discriminate in public life and the trend is towards this happening less and less.
johnny reb 18 | 3,778
22 Jun 2015 #354
Whoever said people have to agree or disagree with anything?

Ah.....the moral majority to start with !
jon you can bang your pots and pans all you want to but it changes nothing about the immorality
that you choose to live with.
The two or three supporters that are backing your silliness here is a joke.
You can promote what you wish was true all you want but that does not trump the truth.
The truth is the 1.5% of you are being "tolerated" but far from being accepted.
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #355
There you go again. It isn't about what is 'tolerated' or 'accepted', especially thousands of miles away. That's largely an irrelevance. It is about how personal freedoms are respected under the law.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jun 2015 #356
how personal freedoms are respected

And normal non-dysfunctional and non-altersexual families also have their rights and freedoms and that includes not having a 1.5% minority impose its values (or anti-values to be precise) on 98% of society, its public educational system, cultural mainstream and legal polity.

Since activists represent but a tiny fraction of any organisation, then the LGBTQ is but a tiny fraction of the tiny 1.2% minority. But they are using their disproportionate clout, gained through generous celebrity bankrolling, to pressure, intimidate and blackmail lawmakers and administrators into acquiescence. Proof? All this is being done behind the scenes precisely so as to leave as little evidence as possible.

Since most everything form America and the West eventually seeps into Poland, people should be alerted to what is happening before it's too late. Saying that it's a remote issue that doesn't concern us is a cłear attempt to lull and bamboozle the public.

Playing the human rights/personal freedom card is also designed to deceive the public. Those are not absolute values but conventional ones. What if a bunch of generously LGBTQ-backed shrinks got together over drinks and declared that sibling marriage was to be regarded as normal as of 8AM next Thursday morning. Would that make it normal, right, advisable and healthy for society as a whole? That's exactly what happened when the US de-patologised homosexuality in 1990. One can think up all kinds of "rights": gay rights, gun rights, abortion rights, etc. Hitler (Goodwin/Godwin theory?) said it was OK to kill Jews, Gipsies and homos. Did that make it right?
Polsyr 6 | 769
22 Jun 2015 #357
Polonius3, reality check, the day someone imposes their values upon you personally in Poland you can complain to your local court, upgrade to a Regional Court, then a Supreme Court then finally the European Court of Human Rights - and I am quite confident they won't allow anyone to force you to follow any belief system unless it is your own belief system.

And while you are freaking out about a possibility that will never happen, the so called 1.5% or 2% you keep throwing around here have in fact had their basic human rights violated - for centuries - because of paranoid people like you and sick leadership figures that gain their power exclusively from the fears & paranoias of followers like you, and I am talking about political, social and religious leadership.

Whether you like it or not doesn't change anything. Poland is changing and Polish law will one day guarantee equal rights to all citizens, and that will happen regardless of what you think, regardless of what you blindly copy and paste on the web, and more importantly regardless of who is in power. It is natural evolution of societies, plus it will become a non-negotiable requirement to remain in the European Union. Nobody cares if you like the EU or not, Poland is a part of the EU and you will never be able to change that.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jun 2015 #358
natural evolution of societies

The natural evolution of nations and societies is birth, growth and collapse. Regardless of what you and your beloved pro-homo lobby say, tampering with the natural, normal family and the promotion of large-scale debauchery can only lead to collapse. It always has and always will.

Hitler's 1,000-year Reich lasted only 12 years. Lenin's folly lasted all of 70 years. There are few trends or organisations that are always and only on the upswing. Eventually a backlash or derailment occurs.

It was England's loose living that spawned the moralistic Victorian period. Why should the madcap LGBTQ project be an exception, especially in view of its society-destroying objectives?
Polsyr 6 | 769
22 Jun 2015 #359
The natural evolution of nations and societies is birth, growth and collapse

No it is not only that. Social structure changes with time. Human beings have gotten smarter and have invented machines to help them accomplish things. In the process, the birth rate has fallen and that is natural and necessary because we are overpopulating this planet, polluting it and depleting its resources. Nothing you said is relevant to the topic or Poland whatsoever. You are copying and pasting from somewhere without addressing the actual issue.

I repeat what I said before;

the day someone imposes their values upon you personally in Poland you can complain to your local court, upgrade to a Regional Court, then a Supreme Court then finally the European Court of Human Rights

Now answer this please.
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #360
And while you are freaking out about a possibility that will never happen, the so called 1.5% or 2% you keep throwing around here have in fact had their basic human rights violated.

Absolutely spot on. And as the quote and link below show, the extreme conservative fringe are still at it :-(

The state of California is being forced to allow signatures on the egregious "Sodomite Suppression Act," which was proposed by lawyer and (need we mention?) anti-LGBTQ advocate Matt McLaughlin last month. The measure would punish "the abominable crime against nature known as buggery, called also sodomy" with a bullet to the brain (or death "by any other convenient method"), and also mandates a decade imprisonment plus permanent relocation from California for anyone who advocates LGBTQ rights to an audience that includes minors. The initiative requires 365,000 valid signatures to make it to next year's ballot, which it is absolutely not expected to receive.

salon/2015/03/24/california_forced_to_take_signatures_for_horrifying_shoot_the_gays_ballot_initiative/

Proof? All this is being done behind the scenes precisely so as to leave as little evidence as possible.

This is just fantasy, paranoia, and general rubbish.

Polonius3, reality check, the day someone imposes their values upon you personally in Poland you can complain to your local court.

Exactly. Poland guarantees the rights of all on its territory. And Pol3, you have failed to give examples of any of these 'reprisals' against people holding opinions.

Home / News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?
Discussion is closed.