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THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY


GefreiterKania 35 | 1,352
4 May 2023 #301
@Bobko

Not necessarily. Si vis pacem, para bellum etc.

However, I still think the most essential ingredient in strengthening Polish deterrent potential is missing: our own nuclear weapons. If Pakis are allowed to have, then Poland should join the club as well.
Bobko 25 | 1,979
4 May 2023 #302
Not necessarily.

Anytime somebody amassed a mountain of weapons, it eventually got used. Look at Russia and Ukraine. People thought wars of this type were forever a thing of the past in Europe. Yet, here it is, raging like a wildfire. Would it happen, or take this form, if Russia and Ukraine weren't sitting on mammoth reserves of weapons which our fathers prepared for another war entirely?

Ukraine right now is many times stronger than Poland will be even after the completion of its program in the 2030s. Those weapons have not helped them prevent the total devastation of their land.
mafketis 37 | 10,864
4 May 2023 #303
forever a thing of the past in Europe. Yet, here it is

russia brings war back to Europe..... how are russians not dying of shame for belonging to such a primitive and violent country?
GefreiterKania 35 | 1,352
4 May 2023 #304
raging like a wildfire

There are worse things than war.

If Russia attacks Poland, the war will make your current altercation with banderopithecs look like a kindergarten brawl between retarded children.

Ukraine right now is many times stronger than Poland will be even after the completion of its program in the 2030

Don't be ridiculous. After the completion of the army reform we will be able to take on both Russia and Ukraine (if need be) with a finger in our nose.
Bobko 25 | 1,979
4 May 2023 #305
Don't be ridiculous

In terms of number of tanks, number of air defense systems, number of artillery tubes, number of men under arms - Ukraine is already much bigger than what Poland is supposed to be in 2035 at the end of the programme.
Alien 21 | 5,207
4 May 2023 #306
Ukraine is already much bigger than what Poland is supposed to be in 2035 a

It's good to have such allies
GefreiterKania 35 | 1,352
4 May 2023 #307
terms of number of tanks

The quality counts as well - we are getting brand new K2s and Abrams, as well as F-35s, HIMARS and Chunmu on top of other modern stuff. Ukraine is using mainly old post-Soviet junk.

Besides, Ukraine is at war, it's obvious their standing army is larger than Poland's 2035 peace time forces will be. Voluntary conscription has been introduced, however, as a first step to train reserve force in case of war.

I understand that Russia would prefer a weaker Poland and that's precisely why the army is being strengthened.
Alien 21 | 5,207
4 May 2023 #308
Poland's 2035 peace time forces

The Bobko's nation has other plans there.
Bobko 25 | 1,979
4 May 2023 #309
quality counts as well

No one said it doesn't, but Ukraine still possesses more brute power than Poland will then.

I don't know how you can argue this.

Poland is planning to spend something on the order of $110B over a decade to rearm. Ukraine received nearly twice that in a year, from the entire West emptying their warehouses (including from the warehouses of the planet's sole superpower).

I'll go further, and say that Ukraine was stronger at the beginning of the war than Poland will be in 2035. Ukraine has de facto the third strongest land army in the EU right now, after the United States and Turkey.
GefreiterKania 35 | 1,352
4 May 2023 #310
The Bobko's nation has other plans there

I know.

Ukraine was stronger at the beginning of the war than Poland will be in 2035.

What did they need our Grads and T-72s for then? And all the trains with ammunition for their post-Soviet artillery? Also, if they were so phantastically strong then why did you attack them with a hundred thousand or so of moderately equipped soldiers? And why, now that they are even more phantastically strong, you keep attacking them with T-54s and other ancient stuff? Questions, questions...

Meanwhile, let's calmly get those Abrams and HIMARS, just in case. :)
Bobko 25 | 1,979
4 May 2023 #311
What did they need our Grads and T-72s for then

I think you lack appreciation for what type of enormous quantity of weapons Ukraine had.

The reason we struggle, is obvious. We did not expect them to resist. We expected them be in a state of shock and confusion. Instead what happened is Grandpa Biden gave them information about everything we were planning to do, 24-48 hrs before the attack. They hid all their planes, air defense systems, and prepared for our arrival.

If we defeat Ukraine comprehensively, a very big "IF" - then the rest of Europe will not contain a single country of comparable potential.
GefreiterKania 35 | 1,352
4 May 2023 #312
We did not expect them to resist. We expected them be in a state of shock and confusion.

Yes, I noticed you tend to underestimate your enemies.

24-48 hrs before the attack

Are you kidding me? Everyone knew what's going on for weeks before the "blitzkrieg" began. You can't attack suddenly and unexpectedly in the age of satellites, internet etc. The moment you start gathering troops, everyone and their grandmother knows what you're doing.

the rest of Europe

"The rest of Europe" is 500 million people (with slightly fewer percentage of drunks, HIV-positive, and degenerates than their Russian counterparts), incomparably stronger economy and armies that would wipe the floor with Russians in 3 weeks. Of course, we will never find out because even Ukrainian peasants armed with whatever handouts Europe and US could spare are efficiently stopping you.

However, let's just calmly assemble the strongest land army in the EU - just in case. :)
mafketis 37 | 10,864
4 May 2023 #313
We did not expect them to resist

for normal people that's a sign that the invasion was a terrible, terrible idea..... but for russians it's just a cue to keep killing civilians and dreaming of empire....

A Ukrainian once told me that even well-intentioned russians never understand that Ukrainians have never like them much at the collective level and dislike their servile nature and lazy apathy in the face of oppression...

just go away, stop trying to cover your shame here.... you are a terrible person who's weirdly proud of being from a violent and terrible country with a violent and terrible culture that no one wants (esp Ukrainians)
GefreiterKania 35 | 1,352
5 May 2023 #314
for normal people

Erm... have you watched any Russian state TV? Or listened to their "diplomats" and politicians? The adjective 'normal' just doesn't collocate with any of what's happening there.
mafketis 37 | 10,864
5 May 2023 #315
ussian state TV? Or listened to their "diplomats" and politicians? The adjective 'normal' just doesn't collocate

Very true. Supposedly a lot of it is for show like Solovyov (second hand from someone who'd worked with him 15 years ago) who's actually pretty liberal but has to pump up the refime...

That's the greatest weakness/flaw of the russian system (whether the Tsar, the USS or putain): It requires many or most people to lie in public to people who know they're lying and who will lie to them in return.

No wonder russian cope is a lot about how much they love 'truth' (which ends up being a bunch of rationalizations to deal with the cognitive dissonance that they feel).
GefreiterKania 35 | 1,352
5 May 2023 #316
a bunch of rationalizations to deal with the cognitive dissonance that they feel

Spot on, Maf. Look at Bobi's recent fairy tales about the amazing might of the Ukrainian army. Rationalising the Russian army's failure and perhaps already justifying the losses in the coming counter-offensive. If even intelligent people like him are susceptible to resorting to this psychological mechanism, then what defense is there for simple, state-TV-watching folks?
Miloslaw 21 | 5,140
5 May 2023 #317
Look at Bobi's recent fairy tales about the amazing might of the Ukrainian army

I have to agree!
The Russian army failures are mainly due to incompitence.
The Ukrainian victories are down to western training and supplies.
johnny reb 50 | 7,409
5 May 2023 #318
Really ?
I read that in the news weeks ago.
You are just parroting old news.
How about the 11,000 American troops in Poland, the 35,000 American troops in Germany and the 10,000 American troops in the U.K. for support to Ukraine.
Add the 3/4 of a TRILLION the U.S. has donated to the European war.
The United States of America has spent $300 million on Poland's military financing.
That is just a part of the reality to Poland's Army and military defense.
Miloslaw 21 | 5,140
6 May 2023 #319
How about the 11,000 American troops in Poland, the 35,000 American troops in Germany and the 10,000 American troops in the U.K. for support to Ukraine

What use are they to Ukraine in their war?
None!
johnny reb 50 | 7,409
6 May 2023 #320
Are you really so dim ?
Where do you think Ukraine is getting their supplies from ?
Who do you think handles the supplies coming and going out of the U.S. military bases in Poland and Germany ?
Who do you think is training Ukraine troops at the U.S. military bases in Poland to use this modern militarty equipment ?
That's what use, Dimbo.
Miloslaw 21 | 5,140
6 May 2023 #321
Are you really so dim ?

You are the dim one here.
All those American troops in the UK, Germany and Poland are not actually helping Ukraine fight Russia.
All they are doing is supplying stuff to help the Ukrainians.
A lot of that stuff is not American.
Please stop this "America saved the world" story that seems to permeate so many American TV shows and movies......they are patheric....when we hear an English accent in those American TV shows or movies, we know he/she will be the bad guy.....it's really quite pathetic.

American feelings of inadequacy is pathetic.
What is wrong with America?
johnny reb 50 | 7,409
8 May 2023 #322
What use are they to Ukraine in their war?
None!

One more time just for you.

Who do you think handles the supplies coming and going out of the U.S. military bases in Poland and Germany ?

All they are doing is supplying stuff to help the Ukrainians.

I guess you answered your own question didn't you. (johnny buries his face in his palms and shacks his head)
pawian 223 | 24,583
13 May 2023 #323
Poland will be like a visit to the circus.

With 500 HIMARS launchers?? Ukrainians possess only 20 of them but they are enough to wreak complete havoc in Russian troops.
pawian 223 | 24,583
18 May 2023 #324
I read in one article that Poland is wasting some of its funds on armament which isn`t so necessary really. E.g., tanks or HIMARS. Why? Russia isn`t going to send their land troops to occupy Poland because they are in tragic shape. In case of a conflict, Russians will primarily attack with long range missiles fired from the ground and aircraft.

That is why Poland has to focus on anti missile systems, like Patriot and others.

Interesting view.
AntV 5 | 660
18 May 2023 #325
That is why Poland has to focus on anti missile systems, like Patriot and others.

I agree with you. One fruitful thing that might come from this war is that the US might be willing to re-invest in the anti-missile system of the Bush era that Obama withdrew. Regardless, beefing up land-based military assets is also extremely important.
Novichok 4 | 8,209
19 May 2023 #326
but they are enough to wreak complete havoc in Russian troops.

Now I know why they left Crimea in such haste...
johnny reb 50 | 7,409
20 May 2023 #327
the US might be willing to re-invest in the anti-missile system

It's already a done deal.
The final tests are underway at the Aegis Ashore US missile defense base in Poland.
pawian 223 | 24,583
20 May 2023 #328
Now I know why they left Crimea in such haste

Not yet. :):) Ukrainians have to lend a hand.
Novichok 4 | 8,209
20 May 2023 #329
Why are Ukrainian successes always in the future?
Also, if there is just one Ukrainian hiding in Bakhmut, does it mean Ukraine is still fighting in Bakhmut?
pawian 223 | 24,583
20 May 2023 #330
Why are Ukrainian successes always in the future?

Why in the future? Ukrainians scored multiple successes. One of the first ones, in March 2022, was defeating Russians who tried to capture Kiev. Ha! How long have Russians been trying to capture Bakhmut??? Do you remember? 10 months.Ha!

The Polish army should watch and learn from the Ukrainian example.


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