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THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY


Alien 13 | 3,053
26 Feb 2023 #271
basic training with firearms in todays world

After all WOT was organised. Those who want to shoot can sign up there.
pawian 204 | 21,119
26 Feb 2023 #272
some people posting here celebrating the Polish purchase and manufacturing of arms and ammunition are preaching about gun control

You are wrong. I don`t want to say "again" not to hurt you, but it looks like that. Sorry. ASAIK, Kania is against individual arm control.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,910
26 Feb 2023 #273
@pawian
Funny, I don't remember mentioning you. Interesting though how you think you needed to respond.
Lenka 4 | 3,189
26 Feb 2023 #274
A bit hypocritical IMO

One is about militry and one is about private possesion. What is hypocritival about it?
johnny reb 41 | 8,017
26 Feb 2023 #275
Those who think the risk is minimal or not real need to wake up.

Just wait if the food shortages once start in Poland and they will have change of heart quickly.
Poland will need a well armed National Guard (made up with private citizens) on top of it's military.

Interesting though how you think you needed to respond.

He insists on controlling the narratives here with his Woke agenda.
This is his forum so he can add to or delete anything he wants to control that.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,910
26 Feb 2023 #276
@johnny reb
I don't see food shortages happening here. Too much agriculture here, and a lot of history in keeping products as local as possible. If Poland develops a serious handgun or rifle, people will buy that first. Lots of pride in everything they do here.

But if it is his forum it explains some things, and the woke agenda is like a bad lingering fart in Poland. It isn't staying or making a real impact. Thankfully.
jon357 72 | 21,201
26 Feb 2023 #277
training with firearm

For the military.

For civilians it's undesirable and could potentially lead to an increase in firearms.

hunting

A cruel irrelevance.

being able to defend themselves

In what situation?
johnny reb 41 | 8,017
26 Feb 2023 #278
In what situation?

When their life is in question and the Military or Police are not immediately available to protect them from dying.
It's called, "self defense".
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,910
26 Feb 2023 #279
@jon357
You do realize it is getting easier to get weapons in Poland, don't you? I go to the range regularly and more and more people are bringing their own weapons. Some days there are wait times. If you think civilians should not be trained how to use weapons, then you will likely be one of the first dead if something happens. Don't want to protect yourself or your family that's on you, but you shouldn't try to limit anyone else protecting themselves or their family if the Orcs come to Poland. If you don't believe that is a real possibility, then you are not very intelligent.

Oh and just for arguments sake, two shootings in Krakow just last week. One road rage incident, one in a pub less than three blocks from the police station on rynek. Both instances were Poles.
jon357 72 | 21,201
26 Feb 2023 #280
So basically almost never, as crime rates show

This thread however is about the Polish Army, one of Europe's largest Armies and their current response to the Ukraine war.

One key point in Poland is that there's good manufacturing capacity, companies like Ostrowski, and of course Poland is close to countries like the UK and France who both manufacture armaments and engines.
johnny reb 41 | 8,017
26 Feb 2023 #281
So basically almost never, as crime rates show

Yes, like a parachute as airplane engines never fail.
How ever if it does, you can save yourself.

One key point in Poland is that there's good manufacturing capacity, companies like Ostrowski,

So what good will they be if one of their enemies explodes an electromagnetic bomb above Poland if you want to talk reality.
Is Poland and it's neighbors prepared for that ?
Defense analysts have said that a single nuclear weapon (EMR) could be used to collapse Europe's entire power grid.
It would take generations to get back to normal since one of those melts all electronics.
One of those would cause a whole lot of starvation.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,910
26 Feb 2023 #282
An EMP over any country would be devastating. Not so much for personal use electronics per se, but for the grid they are on. NATO has them and so does Russia. If one of those were to be let off, the only way to build weapons at that point is to machine them by hand, and then you will wish everyone knew how to use a weapon.
jon357 72 | 21,201
26 Feb 2023 #283
never fail.

Poland's relatively low levels of firearms proliferation have certainly never failed, nor (and I fly on average 12 times a month) have I ever needed a parachute.

An EMP over any country would be devastating.

The problem is 'just in time' logistics and it's arguable that no country has ever addressed this risk other than by the normal civil defence food stocks.

Nevertheless, Poland has endure food shortages within living memory without descending into anarchy.
johnny reb 41 | 8,017
26 Feb 2023 #284
An EMP over any country would be devastating.

It would wipe out an entire continent.

the only way to build weapons at that point is to machine them by hand,

Exactly my point of...... it would take generations (Plural) to get back to normal.
I can't imagine how computer chips would be manufactured, can you.
Food production would come to a standstill with much starvation.

and then you will wish everyone knew how to use a weapon.

Thank you PolAm, that is the point I was trying to make.
The anti-gun Woke pussies would be the first wave to go down.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,910
26 Feb 2023 #285
@johnny reb
The power grid would be wiped out completely. A lot of personal electronics not connected to the grid at the time would survive, but if the grids for all internet, communications and power are down they wont be much use unless you have solar or wind capability. It will take years to re-establish all those grids one at a time, starting with those that service industry for parts. Civilian interests would come last.

@jon357
The problem is that you are ignoring the ease in which they are now becoming available, and the rising instances in which people could use protection. Keep your head in the sand if you want, but that would be foolish.
jon357 72 | 21,201
26 Feb 2023 #286
The power grid would be wiped out completely.

And all vehicles that depend on electrical circuits.

the ease in which they are now becoming available

Time to crack down.

In almost 30 years in PL, I've only ever seen guns when I've been firing them either for practice or in a competition. Proliferation is fortunately very low as are Polish crime rates in general. There is however an open thread about this elsewhere in the forum.

Back to EMPs. One could happen naturally, via a coronal mass ejection. Most major countries have contingencies for this and for EMPs caused by malign state actors, including comms equipment kept in Faraday cages.

Civilian interests would come last.

In fact commandeering and fairly distributing food stocks and eliminating looters and price gougers generally comes first, equally with maintaining access to medicines and healthcare. Should there be an invasion, resisting that and moving the civilian population is the priority.
pawian 204 | 21,119
26 Feb 2023 #287
Funny, I don't remember mentioning you

Quite correctly coz it would be a wrong move. But you alluded to Gefreiter Kania and I felt the need to correct your false assumption when you said

people posting here celebrating the Polish purchase and manufacturing of arms and ammunition are preaching about gun control

coz Kania supports the private ownership of guns.

you think you needed to respond.

I only follow your own style of debate. hahahaha Hope you don`t mind that I copy it from you - you are my role model. hahahahaha
johnny reb 41 | 8,017
26 Feb 2023 #288
And all vehicles that depend on electrical circuits.

Including farm tractors and their implements to plow fields and harvest fields.
A horse and plow ain't gonna cut it.

Interesting though how you think you needed to respond.

Comes from being a teacher of fourth graders where he is an authority on everything.
jon357 72 | 21,201
26 Feb 2023 #289
Fortunately there are a lot of tractors still in use in Poland that predate electronics. Getting the fuel to farmers is however another issue however fair fuel distribution and getting Derv and Red Diesel to farmers is always part of contingency planning.
pawian 204 | 21,119
26 Feb 2023 #290
Interesting though how you think you needed to respond.Comes from being a teacher of fourth graders

Hey, you had already quoted that piece and commented on it in 275 before. Do you suffer from dementia or sth??? :):):)

Why doesn't Poland start manufacturing it's own military equipment ?

We do in case of self propelled artillery, armoured infantry vehicles, light guns, small weapons etc. We need to import more advanced stuff like 4th generation tanks and HIMARS.
pawian 204 | 21,119
26 Feb 2023 #291
infantry vehicles

The army is planning to order 1000 IFVs called Badger

Borsuk as an infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) was developed by a consortium led by Huta Staliwa Wola, part of the Polish Armaments Group. The project has been implemented and developed since 2014. The Polish construction is to replace the BWP-1 vehicles from the times of the USSR.

Now the project is gaining momentum, because it turns out that Borsuk will multiply in the Polish army to 1000 pieces. Next week, the Minister of National Defense is to sign a new contract with HSW for a huge supply of these IFVs.

The constructors are probably most proud of the use of the Polish-made ZSSW-30 unmanned turret. It was developed by specialists from Huta Stalowa Wola and WB Electronics from Ożarów Mazowiecki. In their opinion, it is one of the most modern solutions of this type in the world. Two independent sights allow you to work in the hunter-killer and killer-killer systems. With one instrument the gunner destroys the target, with the other the commander observes the area around the vehicle. If it notices a new target, it uses the hunter-killer mode to indicate it to the aimer and the turret automatically sets itself in its direction. In turn, the killer-killer mode is activated in situations where the commander does not have time to provide information about the target. Then he quickly takes command and shoots . The vehicle, using on-board weapon systems, has the ability to fight infantry, armored vehicles, air targets and neutralize other threats.

Miloslaw 17 | 4,718
26 Feb 2023 #292
@pawian

The Polish army now is probably stronger than the British one.
Poland - 900 tanks UK -:100 tanks.
Well done Poland!
What were you saying about PIS being rubbish?
pawian 204 | 21,119
27 Feb 2023 #293
Poland - 900 tanks

Not yet. Those are plans.

What were you saying about PIS?

It doesn`t matter . The current opposition would act the same if they were in power.
pawian 204 | 21,119
27 Feb 2023 #294
Why doesn't Poland build a manufacturing plant to produce advanced tanks ?

Because it is cheaper to buy good tanks abroad. Countries don`t need to produce everything coz they can purchase what they need. Autarky is a characteristic of totalitarian regimes like North Korea. And soon Russia.
Paulina 14 | 3,355
2 May 2023 #295
Lukasz

Łukasz, a 29-year-old JW AGAT operator, sustained a nasty injury on duty in February this year - multiple fractures of a femur, extensive tissue damage to his thigh and damage to sciatic nerve. In the last weeks he went through many serious surgeries.

Now he needs a long-lasting and expensive rehabilitation - Accelerated Return to Duty at EXOS Athletes' Performance Institute in Phoenix, Arizona. The foundation "SPRZYMIERZENI z GROM", which is helping injured soldiers, is collecting money for Łukasz's rehabilitation:

siepomaga.pl/lukasz-s

Share the link if you can and if you'd like to support this cause - it's really easy - you can simply send an SMS as a donation. Send the text 0274126 to number 75365. The cost of the SMS is just over 6 PLN.

"SPRZYMIERZENI z GROM" is also running auctions for Łukasz on their Facebook profile - you can get many cool stuff donated by soldiers from Polish Special Forces - military coins, hats, books with special dedications, etc:

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02FrozcMkyi92frXiDKCSoqtEAUX5K1VYA7XkdXtmw1vn2u1ptFjugJ3mbhE97FSYNl&id=100080455592950

🦅🇵🇱
Miloslaw 17 | 4,718
2 May 2023 #296
@Paulina

The Polish army is incredibly underrated by many, some on this forum.
In terms of numbers and equipment I would put them above many West European armies.
espana 17 | 947
4 May 2023 #297
Could they handle an attack on their territory

yes they can , but wait a minute.......... waving a white flag as usual
Bobko 20 | 1,046
4 May 2023 #298
In terms of numbers and equipment I would put them above many West European armies.

It doesn't mean much, to be "above many West European armies" - even if that is true. France and Britain ran out of things to bomb Libya with, after only a month of operations. They then had to come to the US asking for munitions, after first proudly declaring the "No Fly Zone" over Libya a European operation.

Source: atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/nato-runs-short-on-some-munitions-in-libya/

West Europeans armies are known mostly for failing at containing small-scale insurgencies by poorly-armed farmers. From Libya, to Mali, to Congo, to Afghanistan.

If Poland wants to compare itself to someone it should rather do it with countries like South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Turkey. You know, actually strong militaries.

In any case, this discussion is moot because of what we have learned about Poland's financial position. PiS has made grand declarations about buying tons of weapons in an attempt to shore up its support among Russophobe voters (surprisingly large electoral bloc). In reality there is no money to pay for the commitments, without seriously hurting the budgets for healthcare, education, infrastructure, etc.

The plan to double Poland's army all the way to 300K is also dead on arrival. Poland has worse demographics than Russia, a country that is 4X its size. Russia struggles to keep its land component staffed at 300K with contract soldiers, even though average salaries in Russia are not very high and the army offers a comparatively good deal. How the hell will Poland manage to corral additional tens of thousands of people as volunteers, every year, to reach that figure? Even in America, all services are struggling to achieve their recruitment quotas.

Finally - let's remind ourselves - what's the most important thing for any military organization? That's right - experience. The United States has been at war nearly constantly during the last few decades. Russia also. Turkey has been flexing its muscles in Syria, and trying out various technologies from Libya to Azerbaijan. The Saudis, very bloodily, have been occupied with Yemen for the better part of a decade. What has Poland done? Sent 2,000 people to guard some buildings in Baghdad and Basra?

Poland's army is not a fighting army, and it has not the slightest clue of where to even begin integrating the long shopping list of supplies and how to use it. So if you think watching Russians make war is funny, then watching Poland will be like a visit to the circus.
GefreiterKania 30 | 1,217
4 May 2023 #299
Russophobe

It's such a nasty word. Let's better say Russoskeptic or Russorealist.

As for the weapons - we are getting them. If we have to eat stale bread and drink only water, so be it. No matter if it's PiS or PO after the elections, there is a nation-wide consensus that we can't fall into the hands of Mongol hordes ever again. And we are increasing the army in numbers too - it's already happening.

Poland's army is not a fighting army

Underestimating the enemy. Again. Brilliant :-)
Bobko 20 | 1,046
4 May 2023 #300
As for the weapons - we are getting them.

Oh this is not good... When there are many weapons, eventually they get used.


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