Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 17

I understand perfectly and don't see anything with it.

Anything to get russia out of Ukraine, where it does not belong.

russians need to stay in russia (and not leave..... ever, russia is very big plenty of room for you all to wander around and steal from each other).

I'm 35 years old. For as long as I remember myself, the press has been writing about "Russia crumbling" or "headed towards imminent collapse".

In 1996 it was because the Chechen War seemed to be headed in a really ugly direction.

In 1998 it was the Asian Financial Crisis, and Russia had defaulted on its debt.

Starting in 1999 and through the early 2000s we had a series of gruesome terrorist attacks. People said, "Russia more and more resembles a failed state".

Then people started predicting we would all die out by the middle of the century because of AIDS and abortions.

After we went to war with Georgia, people said - "this is the end of this stupid country, George Bush is gonna show them now the true meaning of pain".

In 2014, when we took Crimea, it was "a fatal misstep for Putin".

In 2022 the "rouble went to rubble".

At some point, I understood that there's an entire cottage industry in the West of writing gloomy takes on Russia's direction. It sells, people want to read it, and when it runs out - they want fresh new material. For some reason, knowing that Russia is deep in the dumps, gives Western people comfort and solace. It doesn't matter if its true or not.

We grew our economy ten-fold over the period I described, and indicators like life expectancy and poverty improved drastically. It never made a dent in people "dooming" about Russia. Even if Russia is growing three times faster than their country - it's always gonna be "Russia is about to implode".


You don't see "anything" with it? Including how it may lead to a direct collision between our countries?

You're willing to countenance "anything" to get Russia out of Ukraine? Including faking moral outrage over things like Bucha, while being completely indifferent to crimes of ten times that scale in Gaza?

...na ja....no Ukrainian terror troops invading a music festival and killing russian women and children and dancing ecstatic on the streets to the news about it before.

So....yes, there is a difference! Lots of glee about Gazans....who forgot the images about dead and raped israeli girls spit at and mocked at by gazan men. No such "you deserved every ***** of it" regarding Ukraine! *shrugs*

I suppose that in the end I should be happy that people call us orcs and butchers, for 1/10th the amount of carnage that the Jews are inflicting.

As an orc who is very unsure of himself, and always seeking out the favor of his Western superiors, it's an amazing feeling knowing that I am judged on a white man's scale.

They may call me an Asiatic pig, and a Slavic retard, but I'm their pig and their retard! They're only so angry at me, because we are family.

Right?


Except they did. Read about Odessa and Kharkov in 2014. They shut people inside a building (Odessa Trade Union House), and lit it on fire. People trying to escape were beaten to death on the spot.

For this, and other crimes, they have been paying daily, and they will pay some more.

You sure?

Yes, I'm sure.

We try to bomb military facilities, and when our bombs miss by a few dozen meters, we are immediately branded animals.

Israel erases city blocks with bunker buster bombs. Nobody cares.

Nobody did care about Dresden either.....with reason!

I guess if that war should turn around one day, with ukrainian missiles truly hurting Russians in Russia, the cries will be limited too. That's the price for starting a war...always has been!

Longterm it would had been alot smarter for Putin to at least try to sell a story which would make that invasion also in the West look alot more "rightfully" motivated. Sucessfully blaming Ukraine for this war. Something that would left Putin no other choice etc.

That's a strategy the US has mastered like barely any other!

Will do....don't think I ever heard of it.....

It hasn't mastered anything except propaganda. In 75% of the world, Afghanistan and Iraq were accepted as crimes from the very beginning. These were those parts of the world not exposed to Western propaganda.

Russia is also very good at propaganda, but we lack the same resources and tools.

We don't have Hollywood. We came late to the 24 hr news channel thing. We don't have too many policy think tanks and conferences, that pay for people to travel and listen to our thoughts.

Propaganda is a very real thing, and it is very, very effective.

I guess one big reason is the language....with English + Hollywood a world wide thing!

Nobody can match that....

They are also extremely good at obscuring from the population that information which is not helpful.

If you cannot be heard, it doesn't matter what you say.

Some concepts or narratives simply become "not Kosher". You start spouting off about it, they will literally deplatform you - and that's it.

By giving people only a very selective flow of information, which can even consist uniformly of truths, you can achieve the same effect as spreading falsehoods.

Who is "they"?

After watching Musk taking over "X" and Trump winning a second term I would say nowhere are "they" weaker than in the US right now? :)

"They" for me, is the unified government apparatus of the United States, plus the "elite consensus".

There are groups and specific desks within the national intelligence community (mostly the CIA) responsible for the actual craft of propaganda, but they are not even the most important. It's the less formalized and directed organizations which actually excel at propaganda.

The CIA is pretty clumsy in its attempts, regulated and overseen as it is.

That sounds like "they" for me too....also here in Germany. That's what I meant, "they" are not as strong as used to....

I understand "them", since I come from the Russian "them". The "people" truly are retarded, and can't be trusted to do a single thing autonomously. When they do, we all have to spend titanic efforts digging ourselves out of that new sh*thole.

"Them" and "us", we have a war - not the people living in our countries.

It's a dick measuring contest, but on a different plane, and with totally different stakes.

Don't see anything wrong with it.

Calm down.... you're getting hysterical....

F*cking Maf - I love you...

@Bratwurst Boy


Sure. But this will make little difference in practice for those who have stayed in Germany for several years.

@Bobko


The Russian invasion of Ukraine most likely claimed more than 150k Ukrainian lifes up to this point. Leaving aside Israel is not conducting an illegal war of agression, even numbers provided by Hamas suggest that they have a long way to go until they catch up to the Russian score (never mind the question if those deaths are the results of criminal actions on the side of Israel).

Do you include Crimea and Donbass?

Nice. Counting military casualties.

The United Nations is tracking Ukrainian civilian deaths, we've barely broken -15K.

@Bobko


Of course. This is a war of agression, thus Russia is legally responsible for any death that happens as a consequence of its' invasion. Including civilians that have died due to energy shortages after Russia destroyed the civilian infrastructure.


Only those deaths that can be verified. And Russia is both preventing access to the occupied territories of Ukraine for investigators and actively destroying. Who knows what kind of horrors will be uncovered once Mariupol is liberated. I would not be surprised if the Russian siege of the city alone claimed more Ukrainians lifes than the total number of confirmed dead civilians.

Kinda like the horrors that are now being discovered in the torture dungeons of the Syrian regime which Russia kept in power until now.

Civilians are not like you and me - they look for their dead relatives.

They reach out to us, to find them. They check the morgues. They pester the MoD. They use the courts. They stage picket protests on the Khreschatyk.

If you think that Russia killed many multiples of the officially recorded lost, you are sorely mistaken.

Z admitted to 47K Ukraine military killed, and another 370K seriously injured.

Which every person with a functioning brain knows is a f*cking joke.

You can see from outer space how much Ukraine's cemeteries grew.

@Bobko

Russia is actively hiding thousands of children that it abducted from Ukraine and preventing attempts their Ukrainian relatives to find them. Hiding dead bodies is significantly easier. And we have all seen the satellite pictures of freshly dug mass graves in Mariupol after the siege was over.


Come on, you didn't write that with a straight face, did you?

I meant the Ukrainian courts.

As far as Russian courts, despite your sarcasm and irony, they are the single best open source for Russia's actual losses due to wills, and other such estate related documents.

Russian courts actually generate a surprisingly long paper trail. Russians love bureaucracy, and more than bureaucracy they love writing long-winded posts.

Right - I can imagine some of the wills of these farm boys are fairly short. One pair knock off Abibas trainers, one Tanzanian casette player, 3 cartons of very strong cigarettes, home distilling equipment and a fake swiss army knife.

Its papacy for you. Monsters so much wanted to expand influence that it lured EU in maiden sh*t and then also NATO in this war against Russia. So, local Serbs in Ukraine suffer. But, they shall be avenged.


yes. He is only lucky I am tired like a stallion.

In a nation of forty million, more than half a million people die of natural causes each year. They, too, need graves.

All I misjudged was Putin's stupidity.