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Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 17


Bobko  28 | 2249
29 Nov 2024   #1
Zelensky, today, signed a historic tax increase into law.

It's truly draconian, I can say after reading through this amendment.

He's already at 22% in popularity when polls are run for who people might elect as new president (the former general Zaluzhny is at 40%+).

These negotiations (which he can resist, but can't ultimately avoid), and these unpopular laws are gonna do something not very fun for Ukraine... if the current situation continues for at least a few more months.

The best thing for Ukraine - right now - might be a sudden resignation of the current government, and a calling of new extraordinary elections.

Somebody who is not burdened with Zelensky's gruesome wartime record might be able to sell the population on the necessity of an overall "deal" with Russia. It would also make things easier for Biden in his last month, and also for Trump after.

Now, three years in, Zelensky sticks out like sore thumb. His bombastic rhetoric doesn't land with foreign audiences, his own population long hates him, and Putin doesn't see him as a credible negotiator.

His own former foreign minister, said last night, that Zelensky cannot give away territories because "it would be the end of his political career".

If this guy is so hopelessly wrapped up into his own ego, despite the sentiments of every man sitting in the trenches, it's definitely time for him to go.

P.S. he got elected against Poroshenko on a clear mandate of ending hostilities with Russia. It was him that pointed out clearly all the shenanigans that the Poroshenko government employed in dealing with Minsk1, and Minsk-2. He accurately pointed at the previous government negotiating in bad faith.

Him being so naive as thinking that if we have a Russian Jew in power, that says all the right things, might prevent a war, without giving us any meaningful concessions - was his ultimate mistake.
johnny reb  48 | 7838
29 Nov 2024   #2
I think you got something wrong Jonny,

A Chinese ship was surrounded by European vessels due to suspicions it attempted to sabotage fiber-optic undersea cables in the Baltic Sea
simply accidentally drug its anchors over the course of several hours and more than a hundred miles.

@Bumko
How do you "accidently" drag an anchor over a charted under water cable area for a hundred miles without knowing it.
Novichok  5 | 8099
29 Nov 2024   #3
His bombastic rhetoric doesn't land with foreign audiences,

OK, so you don't like the guy...but he is winning...
At least that's I read here.
Novichok  5 | 8099
29 Nov 2024   #4
Ruble takes major dive against dollar
The Russian currency plunged to 113 rubles against the dollar on Wednesday amid mounting geopolitical instability


The Russian ruble has continued to slide, reaching 113 against the US dollar on Wednesday... The sharp decline comes amid Western sanctions and growing geopolitical uncertainty, analysts say.

Now a question...Is the above from CNN, the Guardian, der Spiegel, or RT?
Vesko Vukovic  - | 133
29 Nov 2024   #5
๐Ÿงพ US and Canadian mercenaries met their demise in the Russian Bryansk region.

a

southfront.press/interesting-details-of-thwarted-ukrainian-nato-special-operation-in-russian-bryansk-region-18/

s5.cdnstatic.space/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/444.mp4?_=1

18+

Officially they were mercenaries but I doubt that. They were most probably regulars sent undercover.....
Alien  24 | 5815
29 Nov 2024   #6
RT?

Surely RT, like all your other information about russia?
Crow  154 | 9397
29 Nov 2024   #7
Zel is a monstrous thing that killing Russians, Poles, Hungarians, Slovaks, Ruthenians and Serbs of Ukraine.

z
Die, make me rich, says he
Vesko Vukovic  - | 133
29 Nov 2024   #8
rt.com/russia/606999-ukrainian-lawmaker-mobilization-women/


Till last Ukrainian


Till the last Ukrainian

PLAN: KILL EVERY LAST UKRAINIAN GOY
bitchute.com/video/tXqIvv6ulSZm
Alien  24 | 5815
29 Nov 2024   #9
Till the last Ukrainian

This will still take some time.
Crow  154 | 9397
29 Nov 2024   #10
Of what Ukrainians you all people speak?

That people there is only exposed to the extreme level of papal, Habsburg, EU and NATO propaganda.

Are you all people brainwashed? There are only Russians, Poles, Hungarians, Slovaks, Ruthenians and Serbs of Ukraine.
mafketis  38 | 11058
29 Nov 2024   #11
calling of new extraordinary elections.

So russians can fire missiles at people voting?

Not today, Ivan Q Genocidesky!
jon357  73 | 23208
29 Nov 2024   #12
suspicions it attempted to sabotage fiber-optic undersea cables in the Baltic Sea

They did it to Mauritania who at the time had only one cable. The whole country's cellular internet (which is what they use there) was off for a month and government facilities with wired internet (including all hospitals and universities) was off for a fortnight.

They did that to show others that they could.

Great that the rouble has collapses again. Massive interest rates too. We should maybe forge lots of roubles and drop them by parachute in every city.
mafketis  38 | 11058
29 Nov 2024   #13
How do you "accidently" drag an anchor over a charted under water cable area for a hundred miles without knowing it.

Hire a russian captain.... a big problem is that natural tendency for russians to bungle things it can be hard at times to determine if the motive was conscious and malicious or just typical russian muddle. It's not a culture that values competence....
Alien  24 | 5815
29 Nov 2024   #14
Will the falling ruble finish off putin? quite possible. People will lose patience.
johnny reb  48 | 7838
29 Nov 2024   #15
Will the falling ruble finish off putin?

You misspelled rubble. ๐Ÿ˜
PolAmKrakow  2 | 986
29 Nov 2024   #16
"The plan presents Ukraine with a welcome chance for an end to the violence, at a time when it is losing on all fronts, and darkly short of basic manpower - a hurdle it may never overcome, and something in which Russia will likely always outpace it." CNN

One of the leftists leading source of information is finally recognizing what smart people have been seeing and talking about for more than a year. But hey, I think I heard someone mention starting a PF mercenary recruiting platform that all the tough talkers can join the fight through.
johnny reb  48 | 7838
29 Nov 2024   #17
and darkly short of basic manpower

Ukraine wants to drop the age for recruiting young men from 25 years old to 18 years old.
They are running out of out of cannon fodder.
Putin's three week "Special Operations" sure has thinned the herds.
jon357  73 | 23208
29 Nov 2024   #18
And today, has been the highest number of orc casualties during the war so far. May this continue.
mafketis  38 | 11058
29 Nov 2024   #19
"The plan presents Ukraine

it lacks an accommodation of what Moscow will demand and has used the diplomatic process for in the past: To cynically pursue military advances. The freezing of the frontlines will precipitate a very violent few months ahead as Moscow seeks to take as much ground as it can. The Kremlin has in the past ignored ceasefires and pursued its territorial objectives - often blankly denying that it is."

So.... not much of a plan....

Meanwhile the ruble is now only convertible on the black market.... and capital flight has reached the middle class (russians now buy more real estate in Turkey than Turks do).

x.com/ReneDuba/status/1862438508721209698
PolAmKrakow  2 | 986
29 Nov 2024   #20
@johnny reb
Its the US who recommended Ukraine drop the conscription age to 18. Ukraine is refusing.

@mafketis
If its not a plan its at least a start to a conversation. Ukraine will either negotiate or be cut off, Russia wants sanctions gradually rolled back then it must give something. Anyone thinking that the US wont be steering the ship isnt thinking clearly.
cms neuf  1 | 1833
29 Nov 2024   #21
I thought the sanctions weren't working ? Why would NN want them rolled back ?

The one that seems to have tipped the scale was switching off Gazprombank
jon357  73 | 23208
29 Nov 2024   #22
Russia wants sanctions gradually rolled back then it must give something

Yes, and the start is delivering their war criminals for trial in the free world. That and getting out of Ukraine and paying reparations.

The one that seems to have tipped the scale was switching off Gazprombank

A shrewd move and hopefully more to come.
PolAmKrakow  2 | 986
29 Nov 2024   #23
@cms neuf
Simple, in order for Russia to pay to reconstruct areas of Ukraine they need to sell more oil. No easing on that front and there is no deal to be made. Unless Ukraine doesnt want Russia to pay for reconstruction, then I am sure Russia will be ok with keeping all the land and doing nothing more than ending the killing.
cms neuf  1 | 1833
29 Nov 2024   #24
No - it's just not realistic to lift sanctions any time soon. North Nigeria can find some money another way. Sanctions will remain in place until Putler, Lavrov and all the rest arrive in the Hague. If we give the NNs access to hard currency and microchips they will immediately start to rearm.

Who cares about their oil - they can drink it for all I care.
Novichok  5 | 8099
29 Nov 2024   #25
Want to see a moron on display? Read #24.

To recover, go to #23.
jon357  73 | 23208
29 Nov 2024   #26
it's just not realistic to lift sanctions any time soon.

Naturally.

And given that the countries that have sanctioned r*SSia have suffered cyberattacks, chemical weapons attacks and arson attacks, there needs to be full compensation for those as well as the peeps being delivered for justice before there can even be discussion about sanctions.

It also needs to be made clear that there will be no further petrochemicals purchases by EU countries.
cms neuf  1 | 1833
29 Nov 2024   #27
There can be purchases of NN oil but the money will be held in escrow and paid direct from their into NN citizens bank accounts, rather than to Lukoil or Gazprom.

Barter arrangements for say sugar or clothing might be acceptable but in reality would just create a 90s style black market.
jon357  73 | 23208
29 Nov 2024   #28
There can be purchases of NN oil

That needs to be completely off the table unless 100% of the revenue went to Ukraine.

Hard luck for Germany however there's no reason things should go in their favour.

There would also need to be denuclearisation in r*SSia due to their threats, and Putler of course delivered to the ICC for trial.
mafketis  38 | 11058
29 Nov 2024   #29
Ukraine will either negotiate or be cut of

What if russian pre-conditions for negotiations to begin are not lifted? At present they include that Ukraine must withdraw from all four provinces that russia claims (but does not fully control?

You see to think russia is anxious to negotiate but pig-headed Ukrainians aren't....

How is this supposed to work (which I mean: How is the US going to get russia to the negotiating table?
OP Bobko  28 | 2249
29 Nov 2024   #30
the start is delivering their war criminals for trial in the free world. That and getting out of Ukraine and paying reparations.

So basically a total non-starter of a negotiating position.

You really want as many Ukrainians to die as possible.

No - it's just not realistic to lift sanctions any time soon.

Even this would make negotiations moot.

Literally nothing for us to talk about with each other, if you can't offer a single "carrot".

This means the killing will only continue.

peeps being delivered for justice before there can even be discussion about sanctions.

This is the most meaningless thing, from the point of view of a Ukrainian. Putin sitting in The Hague does not keep the lights on, or provide any other meaningful benefit other than moral satisfaction.

PAK is right - the best Russia for a post-war Ukraine, is a rich Russia. If Russia continues to be sanctioned on all sides, Ukraine won't see a penny of reconstruction funds.

America was smart enough to understand this regarding post-war Germany, and thankfully ignored the French and British protests. A rich and powerful Germany, with a recreated army, may have been immensely irritating for the two other European powers - but its rise also made them better off in the end balance.

Can you imagine if Germany were kept poor and isolated for a second time?


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