Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11

...I wonder about the european part of Russia/Russians! Will they so easily accept be be counted under "Asians"?

@Bobko

I am delighted. If amateur strategists like us can conceive of such great solution, then I bet the professionals will come up with something even better. Happy days.

@BB

I would appreciate if our German friends and neighbours stopped piling obstacles at this glorious moment when the vision of Marshal Piłsudski finally comes true and the cause of eternal enmity between Poles and Russians disappears. Danke!

Damned! I did it again, didn't I....

*leaves to think accordingly about misdeeds*

Your intentions were good - we don't bear any grudge. ;)

1920 wasn't the last war between USSR and Poland.

That was 1939 - when you invaded together with your Nazi German allies, and nothing to do with Ukrainian nationalism - rather the result of your friendship with Hitler

Cms... *facepalm*... can't you read? We are so close to the historical deal with Russia and realizing the holy vision of the Good Marshal (see the previous page) and you come here and scratch old wounds?

Go stand in the corner, boy!

Yes sir - I know that Molotov Ribbentrop is the love that can't speak it's name

saboteur

I realized this shortly after finishing writing my post :)

However, the 1939 business, was a direct continuation of 1920 - for the people in Moscow.

Poland extracted an extremely extravagant price from Petlyura for aid in expelling the Bolsheviks from Ukraine.

The main price, was recognizing a new Polish-Ukrainian border along the Zbrucz River. With the Treaty of Warsaw, Poland gained Galicia and Wolhynia.

In the event, Poland did not manage to solve Ukraine's problems, and then signed a separate Treaty of Riga with Russia, which again erased Ukraine.

However, Poland managed to keep the territories it gained from Petlyura, until 1939.

Also, don't forget that Stalin was a front commander in 1920, and he personally remembered the humiliation dealt by the Poles.

We learned to survive, keep our statehood through wars and revolutions, and live in peace with 220+ nationalities and all major religions

I doubt we need any advices from poland in any of listed aspects..


We clearly see the pattern. Every time before we left process not done completely, tried to show more humanism thet we should be... Maybe really Kresy should go to Poles to been sanitised completely and without too much sentiments...

You didn't learn to have normal relations with a bunch of your European neighbours though and due to that you have to live with the "suffocating fear" of NATO "surrounding" you ;D You allegedly live in such a great "fear" and under such a great "threat" of NATO that you even had to invade your "brotherly" nation and kill your Slavic "brothers"! Wow! :O Meanwhile, Poles have normal relations with majority of their neighbours and don't have to invade them to feel safe... Maybe RuSSia can learn something from Poland (and other countries, like Germany, for example) after all? 🤔


If what you did to Ukraine was "too humane" then what's left? Complete genocide?

I welcome counter examples....

Certainly. Let's see...


Russians don't destroy countries. OK, they occupy them but most of the time they let the locals run things after Russians take over (sure, run things according to the latest Russian fashion of communism, socialism, kleptocratic oligarchism or whatever, but still). They don't organise holocausts of entire nations, they incorporate them and try to re-educate them (with various success, as Polish example shows ;)).


Again, it's not true. Poland, for the most part of 1945-1989 period, had positive surplus balance from our trade with the Soviet Union. If you care to do the search, I discussed this issue with Bobi and even gave relevant academic sources (Polish!). How is giving more than you receive humiliating to your partners?

The reason that I reply to your posts with "raging nonsense" one liners is that I feel tired to repeat the same things over and over again.

Russians are not evil, just like we are not evil, Germans are not evil (at the moment) and - yes, I may be taking the game a bit too far but even the French are not evil. The wars between countries, my dear children, don't start because people are evil. It's the circumstances, conflicts of interests and balance of power that make wars inevitable sometimes.

*sighs*

wtih a steady stream of pro-soviet/russian propaganda and people had to lie in public about how great the ussr was....

static3.redcart.pl/templates/images/thumb/7148/1500/1500/pl/0/templates/images/products/7148/029f6e7f491c79e6cec0a2781b4a12bb.jpeg

desahome.pl/maciej-nehring-przyjazn-polsko-radziecka-plakat-1952-121452.html

zielonagora.wyborcza.pl/zielonagora/7,35182,25330712,czy-festiwal-piosenki-radzieckiej-byl-open-erem-prl-u-i-czy.html


What are they trying to do in Ukraine? what have russians here on this forum said about Ukraine?


You trust official PRL figures? Or are these reconstructions? Why were discussions of meat exports to the USSR banned from PRL media?

And bobko here himself (more than once IIRC) declared russia's position as an exporter of natural resources to be humiliating (didn't use those words, that was the underlying idea)

Of course not every russian is evil, but a large majority of russians have values that are antithetical to the values of most Poles.

While you guys keep flinging sh*it at each other, Russian northern offensive against Kharkiv kind of fizzled out.

Russian infanty only had some initial support from tanks and armored vehicles but once these were busted, new ones didn't arrive at the scene.

This was a clear sign Russians aren't willing to invest more into this push. They just won some 8 km of border territory, paying for it with lots of dead men.

It was only Kostya, and Bobko made it clear that he was appalled with that.


Some of the papers I read were as recent as 2015.


Hmm... it is a very general statement and difficult to argue with. Yes, nations are different in certain aspects but you - on purpose - depict Russians in the worst possible way. It's unfair.

Gotta catch some z's. Good night.

to counteract those who make excuses for them and their war crimes (and the psychotic ideology that drives them into wars).

I do not have time now to write pages of text to you. Just would like to advise you not to project your national complexes and nightmares onto your neighbors. And about " surrounding" - after NATO has voiced as a possible thing strategy of "overwhelming strike" and accumulated stocks of cruise missiles capable of overloading any air defense system imaginable, the issue of removing launchers to a distance from the main industrial centers exceeding the radius of action of these missiles will be a permanent issue. And even if there are no other options than to make small changes in the political map of Europe, this will be acceptable to us. How do we avoid these options? By making sure that the political "elites" of countries are concerned with the interests of their electorate and not with the mantras of "Euro-Atlantic solidarity".

Try ridicule and mockery. It takes less time.

Maybe it's JUST 8 km, but it means no more raids into Belgorod by Ukraine's crew of Russian neo-Nazis.

It means no more shelling by Ukrainian artillery, for those border regions.

It means we now have a beachhead for further advancement into Kharkov Oblast, while Ukraine has to invest into building yet another line of fortifications further in the rear.

Most importantly, Ukraine has had to move some of their most capable formations to this direction. It'll be very interesting to see now how they will act when the next blow comes, from the southeast or south. No more reserves to plug holes with... something will have to give.

Oh yeah, also - Russian units are being rotated into Belarus again, and the SSO has ramped up the number of raids into Sumy Oblast.

Your Ukrainian friends are being stretched like a cowhide drying on a rack.

Reading a history of the Ukrainian Revolution of 1917-1921 now.

I encourage our Polish friends to study this period.

Then, Ukraine was much stronger than now. They were "nationalizing" entire FRONTS of the Russian Imperial Army after the humiliating treaty with Germany. They had at their disposal Russian Imperial officers, in tens of thousands (Kiev alone had 12,000 officers that could be mobilized). They had German and Austrian military support (Germany sent close to 300K men).

Russia itself was consumed by a terrible Civil War, where the Ukrainians ranked only third behind the White Russians, and the Western Coalition as a priority.

We all know the result.

This one goes into the I Wish Europe Dead file...

EU ambassadors have agreed to place three Russian news outlets under sanctions, a move that would effectively ban them across the bloc. Moscow has threatened to take "retaliatory measures" against Western journalists in Russia.

This proves that the communist jamming of Radio Free Europe didn't stop. The communist scum now self-identifies as the EU democracy and jams Russia's outlets.

Same shyt. Different means and target.

Prayer for today: Dear God, please never let another American die for these mother fvckers. Just let them die if they pis off Russia.

Will they sanction Novichok?

Novichok is what Western Russia haters need. Or Polonium-210...

@Bobko
The lack of Ukrain mobilization will prove to be the biggest problem for Ukraine.

With more US ammo and weapons arriving daily, Ukraine still does not have enough men. Just saying what I have been for the last 8 months, and now the manpower problems are becoming serious risks to securing the line of contact. We are slowly approaching a time when Ukraine will likely be overwhelmed and be forced to negotiate or will collapse. More men, a few hundred thousand are needed immediately, or the Biden presidency will go down as the worst in history not just domestically, but internationally.

This is good news, as is the big mobilisation going on now in Ukraine.


They have very small windows of opportunity and invariably use them badly.

@PolAmKrakow
You are aware that we live in a digital era, where 1-2 manned drones by two soldiers can take out a full squad of infantry that are traveling in a APC in a attack position?

With enough drones, 20k Ukrainian soldiers can take out 2 million Russian soldiers if they didn't have any anti-drone defences with drones alone.

I would rather look at drone production, metal requirements etc and how many Ukrainians can use on a monthly basis.

WW2 big armies is nonsensical in this day and age, just think about the amount of casuelties a machinegun did. Now imagine said machibe gun, that is flying, drops anti-tank bombs and can scout at the friction of the same risk and extremely low cost...

Found a link, in case somebody did not believe me.

especially the Chechens

Everything is fine with the Chechens now. As soon as radical Wahabbite "instructors" started arriving in Chechnya not to a gang to train, but to a pit, and it became possible to create a normal number of jobs for the locals, the situation began to change for the better.

And now they have their favorite occupation - war. They go to fight with the banderites with pleasure. Then they come back with orders and medals, old people look with respect, the list of potential brides increases ... And there is an opportunity to enter a military school with privileges, to become an officer, a respected occupation among Chechens....