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Abortion still under control in Poland


Paulina 16 | 4,203
28 Jan 2023 #2,701
@Novichok, I see you have no shame whatsoever.

The average woman's reproductive years are between ages 12 and 51.

"Technically" reproductive years start with the first period. The fact that a girl gets her first menstruation at 12 (and sometimes earlier) doesn't mean that her body is ready for pregnancy and giving birth. It isn't. Girls can have their first menstruation even when they're 9 year old. That's a child, who isn't both intelectually, mentally, emotionally and physically capable of becoming a mother. So, even a 9-year-old can get pregnant, but it doesn't mean this is a safe age to be pregnant and even less to deliver a baby. Any normal, sane person would understand this. But you don't?

Being pregnant at 14 and delivering at 15 is not a medical catastrophe.

It is. The risk is much higher than in case of fully developed women. Read my comments:

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-abortion-control-62528/90/#msg1894058

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-abortion-control-62528/90/#msg1894059

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-abortion-control-62528/90/#msg1894063

So, Novichok, after reading my comments that I linked above - do you still think that getting pregnant at 14 isn't such a "medical catastrophe"? And if you still think it isn't - would you be talking your raped 14-year-old granddaughter to give birth to her black gangsta rapist?
Paulina 16 | 4,203
28 Jan 2023 #2,702
would you be talking your raped 14-year-old granddaughter to give birth to her black gangsta rapist

*black gangsta rapist's baby

His grandaughter is much more likely to be killed by a teen texting or a drunk driver than being raped by a black gang.

This is just an example - it doesn't have to be a gangster, but simply a black rapist. And it doesn't matter what is more likely. Rapes do happen and it can happen to Novichok's granddaughter.

You just have this fetish that all 14-year-old girls are going to die if they give birth.

No, I don't have any "fetish". And I don't claim that every pregnant 14-year-old will die. But the risk is much higher than in case of adult women. It's a lottery and the chances of damage to health or even dying are high. Would you let your 14-year-old granddaughter play a Russian roulette with a loaded gun? No? Then why would you risk her giving birth at 14-year-old? Would your granddaughter mean so little to you that you'd be ready to risk her health and life?
johnny reb 47 | 7,049
28 Jan 2023 #2,703
and it can happen to Novichok's granddaughter.

She could get struck by lightening too

why would you risk her giving birth at 14-year-old?

Crossing the street is a risk.
Life is full of risks.
That is why God is my co-pilot to watch over such things.
Novichok 5 | 7,642
28 Jan 2023 #2,704
You just have this fetish that all 14-year-old girls are going to die if they give birth.

They don't die. "What if" and risks are not a good reasons to change abortion laws.

Crossing the street is a risk.

Simple: Let's ban cars and remove paved streets because a blind person might get hurt crossing...
Paulina 16 | 4,203
28 Jan 2023 #2,705
She could get struck by lightening too

But this thread isn't about people getting struck by a lighting. This thread is about abortion laws and we're discussing a case directly connected to those laws. We've asked Novichok a hypothetical question.

What is a hypothetical question?

"A hypothetical question is one based on supposition, not facts. They are typically used to elicit opinions and beliefs about imagined situations or conditions that don't exist."

So, no matter how likely it is to happen to Novichok's granddaughter, we want him to imagine a situation in which his granddaughter is getting raped and gets pregnant when she's 14-years-old, because we want to know how he would react in such a situation.

They don't die. "What if" and risks are not a good reasons to change abortion laws.

Some do die (so, stop lying), some don't.
But if that's your take on this then answer the question directly. Would you be talking your 14-year-old raped granddaughter to not have an abortion?

Btw, there's nothing to "change" in the abortion law concerning this case. According to Polish abortion law it is legal for a raped girl or a woman to have an abortion.
johnny reb 47 | 7,049
28 Jan 2023 #2,706
because we want to know how he would react in such a situation.

Do you really have to ask ?
I can tell you how he would react. Ca BOOM !

. According to Polish abortion law it is legal for a raped girl or a woman to have an abortion.

Then why are you ranting on about it besides arguing just to argue.
What is the point of it ?
Go to bed and think naughty thoughts.
Novichok 5 | 7,642
28 Jan 2023 #2,707
According to Polish abortion law it is legal for a raped girl or a woman to have an abortion.

How do you know she was raped? How do you define "rape"? Do you require that the victim reports the rape to the police at the first opportunity or three months later at her convenience?

Does the victim have to cooperate with the police and the prosecutors? Does she have to testify later? Or are those not to be expected because "she was traumatized already"?

BTW, women lie from age 2.
Paulina 16 | 4,203
28 Jan 2023 #2,708
Do you really have to ask ?

Yes, because he still didn't answer.

Then why are you ranting on about it

I'm not "ranting", I'm discussing.
It looks like Novichok is against the current Polish abortion law. So I'd like to know how he would react in a similar situation - if it was about his granddaughter.

I'm also debunking his lies about 14-year-old pregnant girls not dying.

How do you know she was raped?

You know. You saw it happen. Your 14-year-old granddaughter was staying over at your and your wife's house. A group of black men with guns broke into your house. You didn't make it to your gun in time. They tied up you and your wife and made you watch them raping your granddaughter multiple times. They robbed your house and left all of you alive. Your granddaughter got pregnant due to that gang rape. Would you talk your granddaughter to not have an abortion in such a situation?

(If you think that's a made up, unlikely scenario them something similar happened to Fran Drescher.)
Novichok 5 | 7,642
29 Jan 2023 #2,709
What I would do has zero relevance. Abortion laws are passed not to please individual women but to reflect the morality and the needs of society.

Protecting the physical health of the woman should be the only exception and consideration. If and when that girl's physical health is at risk, she should be able to get an abortion.
Paulina 16 | 4,203
29 Jan 2023 #2,710
@Novichok, what you would do has relevance. You keep asking us such hypothetical questions in connection to the RuSSian invasion of Ukraine, for example, and since I've answered your questions more than once, I get to ask you such questions too and expect an answer.

If and when that girl's physical health is at risk, she should be able to get an abortion.

As I've already proven to you a 14-year-old girl's health and life is at risk by default if she gets pregnant. And it's not only about that - she was raped.

So, what would you do in the situation I described in my previous post? If your 14-year-old granddaughter was raped and got pregnant - would you be talking her into not getting an abortion?

Your answer has relevance to me - I want to know what kind of man you are. So, answer it, please.
Novichok 5 | 7,642
29 Jan 2023 #2,711
I will not because I don't do personal interviews or deal with hypotheticals.
Paulina 16 | 4,203
29 Jan 2023 #2,712
@Novichok, you won't answer my question, because you're either a chickenshit or a hypocrite :)

I will not because I don't do personal interviews or deal with hypotheticals.

You always write this when you have no arguments left and you're losing a discussion :)))

Well, if that's how you're going to act then you have no right to expects us to give you personal interviews and deal with your hypotheticals either :]
Novichok 5 | 7,642
29 Jan 2023 #2,713
@Novichok, you won't answer my question, because you're either a chickenshit or a hypocrite :)

You just proved me right but you are too stupid to even realize it so I will explain.
I just said why I will not answer your question. You immediately rejected the stated reasons and called me names.
Now did you get it or do you want me to say it again - slowly and in Polish?
Paulina 16 | 4,203
29 Jan 2023 #2,714
You just proved me right

In what? That you'll get judged for your choices? Well, of course you will. You yourself judge people all the time and you call them names.

You immediately rejected the stated reasons and called me names.

Yes, I did, because you turned out to be a hypocrite. You expect us to give you personal interviews and deal with your hypotheticals, but you refuse to return the favour :))) And you're lying that you're not dealing with hypotheticals - you are doing that when you're asking us hypothetical questions. It's just when you're being served the same dish that you're serving to us, you don't have the guts to take it :)))

And I'm stating a fact - there are only two reasons why you wouldn't answer such a straightforward, clear question - you're either too cowardly to say that you would try to talk your granddaughter into not having an abortion or you're a hypocrite and you wouldn't try to convince your granddaughter to not have an abortion and you don't want to admit it to us :)
Lenka 5 | 3,393
29 Jan 2023 #2,715
I don't do personal interviews or deal with hypotheticals.

Wasn't it you who asked me about what if my son fought in the war?
gumishu 13 | 6,134
29 Jan 2023 #2,716
not allowed to get an abortion i

please stick to the facts - the girl was not not allowed an abortion but denied an abortion by gynecologists who refused to perform the procedure
Lenka 5 | 3,393
29 Jan 2023 #2,717
Which is one and the same.
Paulina 16 | 4,203
29 Jan 2023 #2,718
@gumishu, unlike Novichok I stick to the facts - didn't you read my comments in this thread?

the girl was not not allowed an abortion but denied an abortion by gynecologists who refused to perform the procedure

Yes, I wrote about it myself, so what's your problem exactly?

Novichok is against allowing women and girls to get an abortion even if they were raped. So that goes even against strict Polish abortion law. That's why I asked him that hypothetical question - how would he react if this happened to his granddaughter.

Which is one and the same.

It could be if they didn't manage to find a doctor who would perform the abortion in time. The fact that no hospital in Podlasie region helped the girl or even just advised the aunt what to do is shocking.
pawian 222 | 23,645
29 Jan 2023 #2,719
Which is one and the same.

Exactly, the effect is the same - state health care denied abortion even though it is legal.

By any chance does this thread have anything to do with you personally ?

It is uncultural to pry personal info from posters. Besides, we have a strong conviction you are doing it in order to later diminish and belittle your opponents in your old known style.

Stop it.
Korvinus 2 | 445
29 Jan 2023 #2,720
state health care denied abortion even though it is legal

How you would force a doctor to commit an act he/she considers a murder?

And if euthanasia is ever made legal, should physicians be legally forced to kill the patients?

Maybe you lefists should introduce some new vocation, something like abortionist or medical executioner? Or a butcher?
Someone not needing extensive medical knowledge base, but the will to terminate lives?
pawian 222 | 23,645
29 Jan 2023 #2,721
How you would force a doctor to commit an act he/she considers a murder?

Funny. When there is an accident, a doctor may refuse to help the victims claiming it is against his or her beliefs.

Such doctors shouldn`t work in state health care, let them move to private clinics.

euthanasia

Stop diverting from the topic.
Korvinus 2 | 445
29 Jan 2023 #2,722
a doctor may refuse to help the victims

Most doctor are in this profession because they want to save lives. Not to terminate them.
Again, why to force good people go against their conscience? Create a vocation specialising in just that.
Paulina 16 | 4,203
29 Jan 2023 #2,723
@Korvinus, sometimes abortion is the only way to save a life - of a woman or a girl - what then?
Korvinus 2 | 445
29 Jan 2023 #2,724
sometimes abortion is the only way to save a life

Still a pointless argument. Nobody from the left is arguing about making abortion legal in case of pregancies causing threat to life of mother alone.

Not to mention, now they have included postpartum "depression" among the "life threatening" issues that can affect the mother. They want abortion to be legal as a whole. The threat to life of mother argument is just the means used to push forward for the normalization of abortion for the sake of personal convenience and for the sake of sexual promisquity free of all consequences.
Lenka 5 | 3,393
29 Jan 2023 #2,725
doctors shouldn`t work in state health care, let them move to private clinics.

A doctor working in a state hospitals should adhere to the laws. We wouldn't stand for a Jehowa Witness doctor refusing transfusion ...
Alien 18 | 4,739
29 Jan 2023 #2,726
Jehowa Witness doctor refusing transfusion ...

Only to another Jehowa Witness.
Novichok 5 | 7,642
29 Jan 2023 #2,727
How did the doctor know that the patient was a Jehova's Witness?
pawian 222 | 23,645
29 Jan 2023 #2,728
abortion

After millenia of male domination and oppression of women, the time for full liberation has come. Even if rightists temporarily gain an upper hand like now in Poland, they will lose in the long run coz such is the course of history. The high tide of freedom for women can`t be contained.
Alien 18 | 4,739
29 Jan 2023 #2,729
How did the doctor know

Doctors talk with patients.
Novichok 5 | 7,642
29 Jan 2023 #2,730
Then it was the patient's decision to refuse transfusion.


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