Abortion still under control in Poland

It is absolutely an issue with the abortion laws as mentioned by the unfortunately dead woman herself...

PiS has a history of poorly conceived laws and political actions that often lead to unforeseen bad results in the real world....

The problem is that docs never know for sure when this moment comes for a pregnant woman who has to miscarry in a natural way and when it really does, it is usually too late. Try to show some intelligence and knowledge of life, for God`s sake! I have had enough of explaining such basic things. First gumi, now you. Why are rightists such rightards?

That is something that the prosecutors are considering now.

The recent ruling on abortion by the kangaroo 'court' is without doubt a factor in the woman's tragic death.

All sorts of activists in various positions of power should do all they can to make that Doctor's life miserable.
Then, "docs" will always know.

Yes, exactly. If it wasn't for this new law, the doctors wouldn't have to wait for a woman's condition to get worse.

Always know what?

Don`t be silly. Doctor`s job is not as simple as you imagine when you set your lawnmower to lower position and cut the grass exactly 5 cm tall on your speckless lawn. Treating people has its dramatic twists and if you ignore it, you are reasoning like a child.


But they did coz they feared being accused by fanatics of murdering the fetus.

That is a situation caused deliberately by PiS - they knew they weren`t able to ban abortion completely - but they led to the situation that it is practically banned coz doctors don`t want to take the risk and let fanatics go after them.


Similar statistics here. 2, 3 posters taking part in the discussion support the ban while about 10 are against.

And none of the people who support it here are women. I am also not sure if they are parents or married.

Yes, it is very symbolic, indeed. Those male supporters are last dinosaurs of sick patriarchal society which is doomed to pass away. They know their end is coming, that is why they are biting so desperately with their bans.

she was reporting what doctors told her simply - and doctors had peculiar interpretations of the law - also as the article I linked here there was a massive neglect on the side of the medical staff in the case


what atmosphere - in the year since the unwise/infamous ruling of the Constitutional Tribunal there has been no case of charges against a doctor performing abortion

Given that PiS has a history of peculiar interpretations of the law... can anyone blame them?

Yet. I doubt any doctor would want to be the first.

the family of the deceased has filed a complaint to prosecution, so a trial is probably inevitable - what happens during the trial remains to be seen - again there was a massive neglect in the case on the part of the medical staff - just look here: tvp.info/56773337/wiadomosci-od-ciezarnej-pacjentki-z-pszczyny-pisala-ze-nikt-jej-nawet-nie-zmierzyl-temperatury


there have been abortions on the grounds of the danger to the life or health of the mother during that time mostly after a feminist NGO pressed doctors/hospitals - they suddenly lose all fear of being persecuted for performing an abortion in most cases - should i again link the article specially for you?

TVP is a fake news site; hardly a source for reliable reporting.


Didn't you suggest it was:


Whatever that means...

yes, I was going to say it but you were faster.


How can there be charges if practically no abortions are made nowadays? Tell us how many were made in the last 6 months?

yeah PiS is evil, and Tusk is an angel - that he sometimes has a penchant for blatant lying or simple manipulating doesn't mean a thing

Yes, it looks like it. This is one of the reasons why I wrote that doctors are also to blame. But have you read the whole article that I linked to (not just the title)?


Yeah, that comment about "bad karma" was inappropriate, to put it mildly...

Irrelevant. PiS have directly caused this awful situation by a dodgy ruling from their kangaroo 'court'.

I wonder if Ordo Juris had any input in the issue.

according to the article you presumably read Federacja Na Rzecz Kobiet i Planowania rodziny intervened in about 300 cases where doctors refused an abortion on the grounds of danger to the health or of the death of the mother and the pressure was successful in many (most?) cases - so yeah no abortions were performed - congratulations on your logic

Yes, I knew you wouldn`t provide that number.


The problem is that saying so you are lying again coz there are no such words in the article.

in the article from interia a woman from the same Federacja Na Rzecz Kobiet i Planowania Rodziny says she is not aware of any doctors being charged for performing abortions they intervened in

the article from wp.pl you linked states in 2019 there were 757 investigations about suspected violations of the abortion laws and 37 convictions (if I understood correctly) - there is no mention in how many cases charges were pressed against doctors - that means there were plenty of investigations and 39 (if you believe court verdicts are to be trusted in Poland) illegal abortions - to me it looks like there was abortion underground going on


the exact wording is: "Udawało się po naszych interwencjach, ale nie tak powinno być" - so I conclude that it was not a rare occurence that the pressure was successful

That is Iza, a woman from the city of Pszczyna, who died at 30 because of strict abortion law. She won`t be forgotten and one day her suffering will break the chains that still constrain Polish women today.

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Hey, you manipulating liar, why don`t you quote the woman`s messages to her mother, in which she said directly: "for the time being, due to the abortion law, I have to lie in bed and doctors can`t do anything. " It was her mother who shared those texts in one interview.

Gumi, you lying swoloch. Tfu! You will burn in hell for ever!

my understanding is (as I have already stated in one of my posts here) that she was reporting what doctors told her (I doubt she realised what the law said about it and what the implications were) - obviously acording to the law doctors could do something - in one of her texts she said - "..I can expect sepsa any moment" - don't you think the doctors didn't realise the risk? - by the time she sent that message she had a 40 degrees fever and trembled and received medication for it (only after a fellow patient called the doctors and showed them the thermometer - a nurse said she must have caught cold: can you believe that) - so yeah doctors either realised the dangers (a dying fetus in a womb IS ALWAYS a threat to the mother) and they ignored it and/or they seriously neglected the patient

some details of what I wrote are after this article : tvp.info/56773337/wiadomosci-od-ciezarnej-pacjentki-z-pszczyny-pisala-ze-nikt-jej-nawet-nie-zmierzyl-temperatury - the article contains accounts of a fellow patient which perfectly corroborote the texts of the deceased

also I generally am not in favour of the deplorable ruling on abortion by the Constitutional Tribunal (although the fate of children with down syndrome that used to be aborted in line with the previous law raises questions)

This case could be a good story for a movie of the week but it is not relevant since the stupidest way to pass laws is on the basis of sob stories - that's how women and pussified men react. Abortion laws are existential in impact and comparable to declaring a war - in this case on your own unborn citizens.

A couple of women dying is just collateral damage. Because we are talking about statistics and large numbers, I don't want to get any of that "what if it was your wife" crap. If each case is treated as the end of the world, speed limits should be no higher than 5 mph.

statista.com/statistics/1111313/poland-number-of-legal-abortions-1994-2018/

The population, if the statistic is correct, of Poland is ~38.000.000 people, birthrate 9.442 per thousand.

If my calculation is correct, of ~340000 births there have been 9 deaths at childbirth, of one was seemingly a wrong decision by the doctor regarding the abortion, which would be incredibly low even if we consider all 9 having the same reason for the women deaths, which is unlikely.

There have been 1076 "legal abortions" in Poland in 2020.

That must be the most inefficient pressure on individuals a "fanatics" has ever done.

OK, how to put it...

Even 1 is ridiculous if the reason for it is just waiting for the fetus to die.
Let's assume even the baby is not dying like in the last case- after the mother's death the fetus will die anyway.

Anyone can me explain the logic of that?

ask the doctors not us - I have linked here an article from TVPInfo site quoting both the deceased (her text or messages home) and a fellow patient who witnessed some of the ordeal (the two accounts corroborate very well): what transpires is a case of dramatic neglect - I can link it again if you wish

The doctors didn't have to wait. Nobody put a gun to their heads and they didn't even attempt to get emergency clarification; they just played obedient brainless sheep. Here, that hospital would pay dearly for this stunt.

Besides, pro-abortion fanatics, including this forum, never say what they want the new law to be. I gave them a chance but instead of responding with specifics, I got the forum clown and his bs, instead, because the pro-abortion leftist fanatics want unlimited abortions as a starting point and negotiate down from there.

@gumishu

this is also an interesting reading: rynekmedyczny.polki.pl/NZOZ_Szpital_w_Pszczynie,Pszczyna,Antesa,ZOZ,1534616,1534617/wszystkie_opinie,2

and this is an interesting reading, too: o2.pl/informacje/szokujace-fakty-na-temat-szpitala-w-pszczynie-zwloki-zamykano-w-brudowniku-6702313250347680a

and a bit of history: the Pszczyna hospital was leased for 20 years to a private company in 2010 by the district authorities - there have been a lot of issues and complaints about the hospital afterwards - in 2018 NFZ eventually canceled its contract(s) with the company - a district company overtook the hospital then (it looks like its a model of local facilities PO polititicians dream of: - a municipal company with a couple of synecures per every public service) - the hospital was badly neglected during the time of the private company and from