Abortion still under control in Poland

it is a valid question - I mean: I doubt they did - however facts indicate their fears of the law are not rational - it definitely is not that black and white as I have tried to make it look, I admit - also just read the article I posted - there are a couple of different and opposing views in it (although some of them are not entirely sincere in my opinion)

You are still lying and manipulating. Of course they are rational: this article perfectly sums up what doctors feel - they realise that their chances of being prosecuted by PIS fanatics are huge if they decide to save the woman`s life.

onet.pl/informacje/onetwiadomosci/weglarczyk-dlaczego-to-wladza-odpowiada-za-smierc-pani-izy-komentarz/pkzb0rw,79cfc278

Gumi, I can only say: Tfu, ty swołoczo about your attitude.

read the article I linked - there has been so far no charges against doctors who have done abortions - so yeah their fears are not based in facts ergo they are not rational - spit all you want it doesn't change my opinion that you suffer from hysteria induced bias


complete and utter nonsense according to the same article you claimed to having read


I quote it again so everybody can see that you are so biased that you cannot see obivous statements that contradict your personal bias :

" Od czasu ogłoszenia wyroku nie słyszałam o żadnym zarzucie prokuratorskim, dotyczącym lekarza ginekologa, który terminował ciążę niezgodnie z prawem - mówi."

I have never seen you back down on your claims before so I'm curious what happens now :)

So what? Stop manipulating. You conveniently omitted the fact provided by the article that the situation of female patients have worsened because they have to request the intervention of pro-choice organisation when doctors refuse to stick to the law. There have been 300 cases like that since the infamous ruling and some of them ended tragically like in Pszczyna recently and hospitals are being sued for compensations - currently 12 cases are in courts but there is going to be more.

Why did you prefer to ignore those facts mentioned in your favourite article? It is all a result of PiS ruling about abortion - doctors prefer to do nothing in fear of being prosecuted. Your silly narrative that PiS has nothing to do with those deaths is a lie.


What? Nothing. I still call you a liar and manipulator coz you are one. Simple.

because of the doctor's stance you fail to admit (or rather their peculiar interpretation of the law)


please provide the proof that some of them ended tragically (apart from the one in Pszczyna) - the article doesn't state that

No, because of PIS playing with the law as they wish.


It was enough to read and watch the coverage of yesterday`s protests to learn about other cases coz Iza`s tragedy isn`t the first one. It is obvious now that you know the topic very superficially. So, learn that there have been more women like Iza in Pszczyna who had to die because of the PIS` sick law.

popularne.pl/smierc-ciezarnej-ani-w-szpitalu-w-swidnicy/

yes I admit I know the topic superficially - and I don't watch TV that much - but well the article is from yesterday - and I believe you have just googled it out - so yeah your profound knowledge on the subject is not that profound after all

Yes, it is and I read it yesterday and today I am telling you about such cases. I also saw a poster mentioning about 5 other women apart from Iza who had to die due to PiS sick law.

You wanted a proof and you got it, yet you are still complaining. It would be funny if it wasn`t so sad in the context of the women`s death.


Show me where I suggested profound knowledge.

I see you prefer to remain a liar and manipulator all the time. Shame on you. Will you be able to look at yourself in the mirror tonight?

And they're also trying to prosecute somebody who assists women that need the morning after pill.

pawian, I don't count it as a real proof cause I wasn't able to read the article because it is behind a paywall :P


to quote you again to show plain and simple your hysteriac's bias (I don't call you a liar cause you believe what you write) - the article I linked completely contradicts your statement - there hasn't been a single case of pressing charges against the doctors who have performed abortion since the infamous CT verdict

also the sadly deceased texted her relatives that nobody even cared to check her body temperature - "Dali kroplówkę, bo z gorączki się trzęsłam. Dobrze, że termometr wzięłam, bo nikt nie mierzy. Miałam 39.9" - if it doesn't like a case of neglect what does

and it goes like this: Rodzina złożyła zawiadomienie do prokuratury o podejrzeniu popełnienia przestępstwa tzw. błędu medycznego, twierdząc, że pacjentka wyraźnie sygnalizowała personelowi szpitala, że źle się czuje, a nikt nie monitorował ani stanu zdrowia matki, ani dziecka. - Gdyby lekarze podjęli działania, gdyby się nią zaopiekowano. Pozostawiono ją samą sobie - oceniła pacjentka leżąca ze zmarłą kobietą na oddziale.

just read the whole article - you'll be pretty shocked, I hope: tvp.info/56773337/wiadomosci-od-ciezarnej-pacjentki-z-pszczyny-pisala-ze-nikt-jej-nawet-nie-zmierzyl-temperatury

Look back at my post and check a new link with the complete text


it is very noble of you, indeed.


A case of neglect caused by PIS` sick law. Doctors were delaying the treatment till the last moment in fear of being prosecuted by fanatics. Simple.


Stop stuttering. We already talked about it and I gave you a proper reply in post 1895. What is wrong with you - do you suffer from instant amnesia???

the article contains this pearl: Zaostrzona ustawa antyaborcyjna nie pozwalała na zabieg usunięcia płodu. - as I have already repeated ad nauseam here is that it's simply not true - the problem in my opinion is not the law but stupid cowardly doctors who don't take good care of their patients


read the article please, and then come to me and tell me the death was PiS' fault: tvp.info/56773337/wiadomosci-od-ciezarnej-pacjentki-z-pszczyny-pisala-ze-nikt-jej-nawet-nie-zmierzyl-temperatury

Of course it is. Had such tragedies happened before the ruling? No. Do they happen after the ruling? Yes.
So, why are you lying all the time against the facts?

I stand by my words: the problem in my opinion is not the law but stupid cowardly doctors who don't take good care of their patients

also there is this perfect corelation between births and deaths - before man appeared on earth no man died - it must mean that man die because they appeared on earth

there is another analogy: after the Brtitish army introduced steel helmets during the World War the First head injuries among the servicemen soared - it was because before introducing the helmets most servicemen died because of head injuries

nota bene strona popularne.pl is in my opinion a new ploy to brainwash people cause the likes of gazeta.pl, wyborcza.pl, onet.pl, wp.pl don't appeal to some (a growing percentage of young?) people - the gem I copied from the article proves it in my opinion

Or just a news website you don't personally like.

Here was the demonstration yesterday:
twitter.com/emeszz/status/1457019466643120135

And two pictures I took there:

• 
  254034993_1016152941.jpg
  
• 
  254048487_1016152936.jpg
  

Yes, it is a typical PiS narrative taken from their lying TV - they blame doctors for everything and the law is simply perfect.

It is obvious that PIS overdid the issue of abortion although they had a chance to remain silent and keep the old system. Now the social ferment is too big and it is only a matter of time that abortion will be free on demand in Poland. I hope you will be aware then that you have also contributed to it with your lies and manipulations.

just read the fooking article - maybe then you will shut up - although I actually bet you are going to say it's fake news - I have enough of this nonsense for now

Too many are trying to blame doctors entirely or the idiotic ruling last year entirely.

This is obviously a perfect storm of fvkk-ups with lots of blame to spread around. The doctors should have been pro-active but who can blame them for being cautious given the unpredictable nature of legal enforcement?

PiS never should have forced through the decision (anything who doesn't think last year's decision was delivered upon request is seriously naive).

I blame the doctors and I blame PiS and I blame their phony kangaroo court.

Shame on all of them!

Now, the question is how to prevent this from happening in the future?

now that the case (or even cases) have been made public and a household issue and after the ministry of health issued a clear guidance any other instances of such deaths would be a very bad case of neglect or a downright sabotage of the current legal order in the matter

btw if you don't believe in serious neglect in the case just read the f..ng article : tvp.info/56773337/wiadomosci-od-ciezarnej-pacjentki-z-pszczyny-pisala-ze-nikt-jej-nawet-nie-zmierzyl-temperatury

More from the poll. Apparently most people want a referendum on abortion: "The new poll also found that 57.9% of respondents favour holding a referendum to decide on Poland's abortion law while 36.5% are opposed to the idea."


I think he went there by helicopter and some people wanted to mark the spot he landed on with a monument, as they did in Drohiczyn. Very close to idolatry.

You have enough of the nonsense that you are purposefully provoking here???? Not funny, sad.


Yes, there will be one sooner or later. What results will it have? God knows.

A lot would depend on the wording of the referendum and the options. According to the poll 43% favour a return to the status quo before the PiS kangaroo 'court' ruling and 31% favour abortion on demand up to 33 weeks. Only 10% favour the kangaroo 'court' ruling, and 5% favour an absolute ban. 10% said that they have no opinion.

Holownia favours a referendum, as it seems do most people.

That is why I said it will take place one day. When? When the opposition gains power.

Is there a mechanism here to trigger a referendum?

Yes. Senate, President, Sejm or 500.000 citizens can propose it. But the final word belongs to the Lower Chamber of the Parliament.

Lenka already wrote what I wanted to write, so I guess I have nothing to add. Maybe besides that I agree with maf - in my opinion both PiS and those doctors are to blame. PiS - not only for the new abortion law, but also for the atmosphere that they created in the country (+ Ziobro's personal vendetta against that doctor).

@gumishu, this article is an answer to all your arguments - read what one of the doctors cooperating with that organisation Federacja na Rzecz Kobiet i Planowania Rodziny has to say - he deals with this problem first hand:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/smierc-pacjentki-z-pszczyny-spodziewam-sie-pokazowego-procesu-lekarzy-6701541733378656a

Mental retardation

In a normal world people would have stormed the hospital where this happened with torches and pitchforks, as should have been done, instead of engaging in another round of POLITICS

To do the Monster? What for? It was innocent, it wasn`t its fault to have been created.
They need to get rid of its creator, namely PiS.

In a normal world. people don't 'storm' hospitals (or anywhere else) with flaming torches.

Pitchforks are hard to come by nowadays, unless Leroy Merlin have some.

To punish a doctor(s) responsible.
Abortion is absolutely legal if the woman is in danger of dying in Poland. So this is a case of a wrong decisions of the doctors part, not an issue with the abortion laws.